What Valley Companies Should Know about Tencent
Sarah Lacy
Jun 20, 2010

Quick quiz: Who are the three largest Internet companies in the world by market capitalization?

If you guessed Google and Amazon you got two right, but I’m betting few of our American readers guessed the third. I certainly wouldn’t have a year ago. It’s not eBay or Yahoo; it’s Tencent. If you are in the Web space and haven’t heard of them, read this post, because Tencent’s cutesy penguin mascot is only going to cast a larger shadow in the global Web world in coming years.

Low-key Tencent is the largest, most profitable Internet company in China and it has just under 400 million active users–comfortably bigger than the population of the United States. Tencent recently bought 10% of Digital Sky Technology, which in turn owns huge chunks of Zynga and Facebook.

In the past, Tencent has held joint venture talks with Google and Facebook and made acquisition offers to a few smaller Valley companies that haven’t resulted in deals. But if investor pressure on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange is anything like investor pressure on Wall Street, some deal will happen soon.

Tencent’s stock has more than doubled in the last year, and it has a P/E ratio more than six times Google’s, according to Yahoo Finance. You think Apple’s stock has appreciated in recent years? Check this out. Tencent has had more than double the stock appreciation of Apple over the last five years, according to Yahoo Finance. Investors itch for a company like that to go do something with that rich of a stock currency.

Even if you don’t know the name Tencent, you’ve probably heard of its core IM product QQ. Tencent started in instant messaging in 1999 and unlike nearly everyone else, figured out a way to make money from it by selling virtual goods and services to enhance your avatar. Today, the bulk of its revenue comes from online games, with meaningful amounts also coming from virtual goods sold over its social network QZone and ads over its QQ.com portal and search property.

Tencent has also made forays in online payments and ecommerce, but it has had the least success in that category. The company isn’t giving up. I met with Tencent’s CTO Jeff Xiong in Hong Kong last week and when I asked him what the company’s core strength was, he answered “patience.”

Tencent has benefited from some luck and market timing, like most Web giants. In 2005, there was a big debate within the company over whether they should develop its own search technology or partner with someone. It did both—partnering with Google but developing its own at the same time. Last September the company replaced Google’s search with its own product, in November it replaced Google’s search ad platform with its own and in February it replaced its mobile search with its own. Google started its feud with the Chinese government in March. “We were lucky,” Xiong says. “If three years ago we hadn’t made that decision, we would have been trapped.” Tencent is a small player in search now, but in a market feeling the pain of that Baidu monopoly, many people welcome Tencent getting stronger.

Then again, many others don’t want the company getting any stronger in anything. Tencent uses its near-ubiquitous QQ messaging platform to push users to its other properties, skirting the existing problem in China of sky high prices for keywords and directory listings. Having almost zero user acquisition cost is a formidable advantage. (When it’s used wisely that is. Tencent pushed users to its ecommerce marketplace prematurely, and it just convinced a lot of users to stick with Alibaba’s Taobao.)

Indeed, nearly every startup I spoke with in China was more scared of Tencent getting into their markets than anyone else—the way people in the Valley used to fear Microsoft.

“We’re not doing everything,” protests Xiong, a former Microsoft employee during the anti-trust trial years, who is visibly uncomfortable with the Microsoft analogy. For instance, after big in-house debates Tencent has decided to stay away from business software or a Chinese equivalent of Google Docs, he says. It is making small or no bets on categories like online video, a traditional ecommerce store like Amazon, a reservation engine like OpenTable or Digg-style news aggregation. (Despite Xiong’s protestations, that’s a pretty small slice of the consumer Web the company is not going after.)

I asked Xiong where he expected Tencent to be in ten years. He responded first by saying China only has about 20% Internet penetration. Just growing in China in one of the company’s verticals would grow Tencent dramatically– that’s no doubt driving the stock up. I asked him if he thought Tencent would buy a big Silicon Valley company in the future. He said yes, without blinking. (The company has an office on University Avenue, and Xiong travels here several times a year.)

Tencent is an impressive company, but it’s fair to say the stock is over-heated. It should do something with that currency while it can, the way Google used its enviable stock currency to outbid rivals for acquisitions like YouTube back in 2006. Every Internet company can tell you, that advantage doesn’t last forever.

Indeed, it’s hard to think of an Internet company Tencent’s size that hasn’t done a big, even company changing deal. EBay changed its fortunes with PayPal (and several bad acquisitions unfortunately), Yahoo got into search with Overture, and Google expanded its business with YouTube and DoubleClick. Even Amazon added to its ecommerce arsenal with its recent acquisition of Zappos.

Still, odds are any near-term deals will be modest ones. Pony Ma, Tencent’s founder and CEO, has walked away from large acquisitions in the past because of concerns that the culture’s wouldn’t mix, Xiong says. Indeed, Tencent’s staff has an average age of 26 and has that somewhat cocky but fun feel of working for the coolest company on the planet at just the right time. (I snapped the pictures in this post during a visit to the company’s Shenzhen headquarters.)

Patience is one thing, but Tencent has been cautious long enough– pretty soon it’ll need to start acting like the global Internet company it is becoming.

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  • http://webtrendsngc.om possicon

    Giving the current internet penetration in China, Tencent still have room for growth, massive one indeed. Chinese population is also breeding more middle class which will also bring profitability to the company as more people have enough to spend online! US firms should watch out.

  • http://www.spirofrog.de Tom

    Reminds me of PCCW in 2000 ! Bubble territory in Stock terms not the copmany

  • http://www.facebook.com/wildvlad Vadim Tsyganok

    So Microsoft with Bing is not Internet Company anymore?

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    Tencent's social network, qqZone (qzone.qq.com) is certainly the biggest in China. Eclipsing even MySpace China with Rupert Murdoch's wife at the helm.

    QQ is like the facebook of China. The QQ doctor service software is scary though. If you've ever had to work on a computer that has it, you would be scared.

  • Ned

    Fly to new country. Eyes grow as big as saucers. "Curate." Report. Deduct. Repeat.

  • Joe Barmitzvah

    Tencent in the Hong Kong exchange? What this post doesn’t explain Is that for Americans it’s a whole different world if you want to invest in this company right now.

  • http://twitter.com/niubi @niubi

    Glad to see Tencent is getting some of the respect and coverage it deserves. Too bad Comscore is still issuing inaccurate data about global Internet Usage: http://digicha.com/?p=644
    Comscore Ranks Top 30 Global Internet Properties, Undercounts Chinese Sites

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    I don't think it helps that YouTube, Facebook, and most other US websites who aren't owned by Rupert Murdoch have been blocked there.

    If Tencent started making English versions of it's software and targeting the US market things would be different. We would have a global internet playing field. Right now everything is sand boxed. And where it isn't culturally sand boxed we find great firewalls.

    Zhang Xin from SOHO was on CNN earlier today discussing similar topics.

  • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/writingsofahiddengem Eric C.

    I honestly never heard of Tencent, until now. Interesting read.

  • http://www.adrianscott.org/ Adrian Scott

    uh, DST has huge chunks of Zynga and Facebook? Have you fact-checked that?

  • http://twitter.com/rodolfor Rodolfo

    It's not.
    http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/ms-profit-by-divisions-4...

    Bing is just a carbuncle in the oozing mass of putrid flesh that is Microsoft.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    According to Techcrunch, they own 1.96%

    "Digital Sky Technology, which in turn owns huge chunks of Zynga and Facebook."

    techcrunch.com/2009/05/26/facebook-takes-that-200-million-investment-from-the-russians-at-a-10-billion-valuation/

    "DST will take a 1.96 percent stake in the company"

    I dunno if you can call 1.96 percent a huge chunk.

  • http://twitter.com/BostonDave @BostonDave

    There is some other activity on the US front – Tencent recently opened a subsidiary outside of Boston;
    http://www.tencentboston.com/index.php

    Although it looks like an MMO play and not in their traditional area.

  • Ned

    That actually would be a story.

  • Ned

    <2% is not a big chunk. Then again, an article whose concluding salvo is "pretty soon it’ll need to start acting like the global Internet company it is becoming" needs a lot of verbal shellac just to keep the author awake through writing and submission.

  • The Numbers

    If there are 1 billion people in China and there are 400 million users, how is there only 20% internet penetration? Where are all the other users coming from?

  • josh

    "…it has a P/E ratio more than six times Google’s"

    That's not something you would wanna mention to beef up a bullish position. And that it's a Shenzen-based company, oughta tell you what to make of its market cap.

    It's amusing to see how rookie reporters get easily duped. And by rookie, I don't mean mileage or years of experience. Like Ned's comment above: Visit a new place, drink their kool-aid, eyes grow as big as saucers, lost all critical reasoning, then lost all writing credibility.

  • http://twitter.com/menggoh @menggoh

    It's very easy to solve, any undercounted Chinese companies can just send comScore your traffic queries to complement the panels. I am sure they will be happy to work with China's largest site. They wouldn't do that would they?

  • robert

    The only way they can expand globally is to buy its way in (like what other chinese companies are doing in other industries). Its market value is 200+ billion now, a good time to go shopping. Why not pick up a yahoo or a rim?

  • robert

    Yeah… maybe they are referring to land area? Which would be stupid.

    Also, if you look beyond the numbers, you will see that a lot of the 1.3 billion chinese people are living in the rural without access to a computer or internet connection.

  • robert

    if the pie is REALLY REALLY big, a small piece can be a huge chunk… maybe that's what she meant. Still very misleading…

  • robert

    No.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    "CN – 1,338,612,968(*) population ('09) – Area: 9,806,391 sq km
    Capital city: Beijing – population 7,724,932 ('07)
    384,000,000 Internet users as of Dec/09, 28.7% penetration, per CNNIT
    346,000,000 broadband Internet connections as of May 01,2010, per ITU."
    http://www.internetworldstats.com/asia.htm#cn

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    replace the word kool-aid with tea, and you've got something going.

  • lou

    Some more on the Tencent-DST relationship..and the role that South African firm Naspers, which owns 35% of Tencent, is playing in the global internet http://digicha.com/?p=411

  • lou

    200B+ HKD=30B+ USD

  • lou

    MMO is a huge area for Tencent. their online game segment accounts for most of their growth and most of their stock gains over last year

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    No way. Tecent could list as an ADR like Baidu, bank of Ireland(gag) or any other ADR. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Depositary_...

    I would buy some, and I don't think I'm alone in saying that.

  • david

    To be clear, that 200B mkt cap number is Hong Kong dollars, not U.S. Dollars (~25-30B USD)

  • robert

    Good point. But they should invest or buy to gain their presence globally. Their products wont make it out of china. Tencent.com is on the mvps black list.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/reneeswifts reneeswifts

    Its not a surprise to see Yahoo not getting the spot for tencent. I mean, with all the decisions its CEO made. I wouldn't be a surprise to see Yahoo being sold by 2012.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    Oh snap. Who are these dark and mysterious world wide MVPs you speaketh of???

    Please don't run away in silence. Not now that you have peaked our interests???

  • Segun

    wow…definitely never heard of tencent before! Thanks Sarah, you should fly down to nigeria someday!

  • Ned

    A fact which, thankfully, further destroys the implied relevance (which is bolstered, true to form, by a misrepresentative link to Yahoo Finance) of this dough-headed vignette.

  • guest

    I don't even think the author knew about it until weeks ago, not last year; since I have been mentioning Qzone in posts for quite a while. Hell, there were even stories on TC regarding this company as far back as 2006/7 that I commented on after finding them. I first used qq in 99 and then again in 02 and have been on qzone since 05 when it started.

  • Joe Barmitzvah

    Well easier said than done having An ADS or ADR traded (OTCBB) let alone listed (on an exchange). Add to that FASB not always followed in China.

  • guest

    As anyone who is familiar with the US customs of cheating on FB and other things whould know, people create multiple accounts, spam, bots, etc… So you can cut those figures by half.

  • dunkhy

    that s exactly what i noticed while reading those figures, i thought "400million while 20% penetration, so china s pop is about 2billion", woooo, we all had bad info about the real size of china!
    my best guess is that they never cancel their "active accounts" even after years of inactivity, and like other messengers and any web service, when you have trouble with an account (forgot password, got hacked, took too many friends and dont want to officially cut the links…), you may simply create a new one. if they re on the job for the last ten years, it may have inflated the general figure, dont you think?

  • guest

    replace the phrase drink their tea with smoke their cigarettes, undo your belt, open up your shirt and belch after that big guanxi meal, and you've got something.

  • guest

    Most people who play MMO do it in netbars. They're not going to blow their wad on slow internet access through QQ. Think of a lan party. It's pretty cheap to spend the whole night in one.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    I just looked them up:
    http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/corp/corpsearch/CorpS...

    Class of Stock Par Value Per Share
    Enter 0 if no Par Total Authorized by Articles
    of Organization or Amendments
    Num of Shares Total Par Value
    Total Issued
    and Outstanding
    Num of Shares
    CNP $0.00000 1,000 $0.00 0

    There are only 1000 shares and the shares are worth ZERO dollars USD.
    2/3 of the acting directors are American and have non-Chinese names: JEFFREY GOODSILL of Mass, DAVID A.M. WALLERSTEIN of California.

    All the other directors are in Hong Kong.

    Tencent Boston has been around for over 2 years:
    Date of Organization in Massachusetts: 05/09/2008

    I hope this info helps!!!!

  • guest

    And I hope they never make English versions of their software. They've got enough problems without getting white laowai spammers on there as well. They keep 99% of the features running only on the Chinese versions.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    I found out more:
    http://bit.ly/c77IHl

    Tencent has about 20 newish trademarks at the USPTO registered to
    TENCENT HOLDINGS LIMITED LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY in the CAYMAN ISLANDS

    The Cayman Islands is well known as a tax haven.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cayman_Islands

    Like more so than Delaware.
    (puts on sun glasses)
    and that's how you do research!

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    I found out more: http://bit.ly/c77IHl

    Tencent has about 20 newish trademarks at the USPTO registered to
    TENCENT HOLDINGS LIMITED in the CAYMAN ISLANDS

    The Cayman Islands is well known as a tax haven.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cayman_Islands

    Like more so than Delaware.

  • robert

    i was just referring to the mvps host file. It lists tencent.com as a trojan.

  • Ned

    You should be writing for TechCrunch.

  • http://www.louisvuittonsale.org louis vuitton

    QQ??very good

  • Cliff

    On China numbers, market share, user base, etc:

    Internet users in China number somewhat over 300M (somewhat over 20% of the 1.5B people in China); mobile phone users in China are 600M +/-100M (around 1/2 of the pop of China). Tencent's users include many mobile phone users.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    Not at all. I am a software developer. Sorry for the double post.

    I wish Tencent well. I don't believe in high taxes either.

    All information was posted strictly for information purposes only. I have no ulterior motive. Just for everyone to know more.

  • http://twitter.com/NthCode @NthCode

    I just asked one of my developers here in Beijing. She said that she thinks most Chinese who use QQ have two accounts (she has three). She said one is for her classmates and friends, and the other is for online friends she met playing games or hanging out in chat rooms — I'm not sure about the third.

    All the Chinese people I know who use computers have a QQ account. *all*.

  • http://www.replica-rolex-replicas-watches.com rolex678

    QQ, On China numbers, market share, user base, etc: such as MSN in USA

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    Oh, sorry about that. I don't visit that website. Adblock plus doesn't have Tencent listed and that's what I use. Not many people change out their windows hosts file. More like Linux users do that. /etc/hosts vs. C:WindowsSystem32driversetchosts

    Usually Web devs and QA testers swap those out often. I don't know of too many people tht defeat spam with hosts files anymore. Most spam filtering is browser based these days.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    Sorry, forward slashes are stripped. On windows it's:

    C:Windows/System32/drivers/etc/hosts

    Most windows users don't even know how to do that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jamesj James Joaquin

    Great piece Sarah. I agree that Tencent has surprisingly low awareness in the US. You should check out IMVU as a silicon valley example of a company like Tencent with roots in instant messaging and a strong, growing revenue base from virtual goods.

  • divor

    I don't think 419 classifies as an internet industry.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    #EricRies, the former CTO of IMVU spoke at Twiistup 007 telling us all how his company was a total failure at first and how fortunate they were to exit.

    He was telling us how the product blue screened windows when it launched. He had some really good points about startups. I wouldn't compare IMVU to Tencent though. It would be a huge and uncomfortable stretch to do so.

  • Ned

    "Awareness" is an hilarious concept. With whom do you do business? Oh wait…

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=5042 Deniz Kural

    Microsoft is having a hard time diversifying its revenues and growing the existing markets….
    It's hard to justify the $$ for Windows when you buy a < $500 laptop/netbook.

  • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/geomark geomark

    I think Ned meant your investigative work is better than that of some TC writers.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/andreitblog andreitr

    Wow, There is a surprisingly large word beyond the Silicon Valley. Curious to see what big valley company they'll acquire.

  • Varghese

    As someone who has had the pleasure of working with Tencent (while being part of another company), I must say that they are one of the most formidable companies anywhere in the digital sphere. A visit to their office in Shenzhen is an eye-opener on how internet companies of scale can continue to motivate employees and come out with products that are of relevance to their market.

    A particular point of interest that you seem to have missed out is that, while Tencent has been focussed on the Chinese Market, it has made inroads in India by its part-ownership of ibibo.com, one of India's leading social networks. The partnership has resulted in Tencent's key products such as the mail and messenger being localized for the Indian market. Since India is largely an English dominated online market, it will be interesting to see how this foray may influence Tencent's wishes to go international (should they ever wish to).

    Something that makes Tencent a unique player is the fact that they are partly-owned by a South African Media Group called Naspers. Naspers also owns ibibo.com in India.

  • kula

    Tencent is a company that always copies others' ideas and products.There is a determining difference between it from Microsoft.Microsoft valued creativity,on the contrary,Tencent copies others' creativity.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    Really, you mean QQ Ranch isn't original? :'(

  • http://www.allthedeals.in allthedeals

    Tencent investments in India is under the ibibo brand name and doing fairly well.

  • Bogdan

    we're talking about China here…that doesn't count :D it has no competition

  • http://bit.ly/a9DKEZ Engineer-a-Business

    The problem is that because of copyright issues etc. in China's current political climate, many companies are reluctant to expand there until these problems are corrected. This could be a smart move on Tencent's part, but it could also be very risky for them.

  • hongyan

    Tencent is currently the biggest market cap internet company in China, but look out also for listed players like Alibaba (which is part of the group that privately owns Taobao and Alipay), CTrip and Giant Interactive.

    As to comments on creativity, I don't want to start a flame war, but I think it's undeniable that some Chinese internet companies have at the very least been innovative in monetizing. Look at how QQ has monetized avatars and how youku has monetized video.

  • Wang
  • http://www.newwholesalemall.com/ Air Jordan

    QQ很强大,在我们中国真的有太多人用它

  • Levis

    Well, Eevryone own not only one QQ number in China.

  • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/usermac Brian Ginn

    And, as an American, I skew the numbers as I too have had a qq account for years now. ;) 88

  • http://twitter.com/Michael1980 @Michael1980

    Hi!
    Check out one of our white papers about business models for social networks: http://www.slideshare.net/michaelaltendorf/update...

    There is a whole chaper on Tencent, Ccyworld and several other asian companies, but also potential revenue and growth models and future scenarios

  • didxga

    Tencent is a totally plagiarist!Never use its service.

  • http://twitter.com/dedomobil @dedomobil

    The 2008 book "Silicon Dragon: How China Is Winning the Tech Race" by Rebecca A. Fannin. Has a great write up on this company and other startups emerging in China. Worth a read to complement Sarah's post.

  • WulfCry

    China does more then building stuff its also a growing market of startups why would anyone be surprised.
    Its a startup market different then western styled market penetration if you don't know the culture or are part of it why would one ever expect they blindly embrace yours. Missed opportunities right there what about a TechCrunch China ?.

  • http://www.gamesazouz.com Tntawy

    And, as an American, I skew the numbers as I too have had a qq account for years now. ;) 88

  • http://www.jobberman.com Ayodeji Adewunmi

    I think what Tencent has achieved will be a pointer to the immense opportunities in the emerging markets…I can only see more growth from this company.

  • Mark L.

    Which creative Microsoft product are you referring to ?

  • http://askbusinesscoach.wordpress.com courtney benson

    Must admit I've not heard of them but if this article is accurate, maybe it won't be a couldda, woulda shoulda

  • abcd

    Depending on what perspective you look at, Tencent could be quite opposite to itself. I do admit its sale of virtual goods is creative and a successful business model. However for most of the other part, it's not.

    And for one thing I'm sure is that Tencent could only make its fournte and success in China with its current business model and way of developing its products.

    Pretty much the same as I said in another comment about Tencent for techcrunch report:
    http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/20/chinict-livestre...

  • http://www.onlinembawiki.com flyen

    i agree with sarah,Tecent will be stronger due its customers sources

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1261351886 Kwokokwai Kathuli

    Tencent is 35% owned by Naspers which also acquired Latin American Buscape,russian Mail.ru,African Kalahari.net and a number of other large internet properties.Others are Globo,Abril,Mxit and large cable television operations in Multichoice and a string of leading magazine and publishing properties.So the company to grow cold feet about is NASPERS.
    Most of the properties I have mentioned are big brands in their markets.

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  • george stevens

    josh, you clearly aren't a believer in the Efficient Market Hypothesis? If so, then you should hop in there and make a lot of money shorting Tencent.

    I don't think the author is advocating taking a bullish position on Tencent- only with that valuation, there are many sophisticated investors who see something there.

    There were analysts who claimed in 2004 that "anyone buying Google as a long-term investment at $109.40 will lose money" because it's P/E was 87x TTM. Clearly whoever followed his advice then and shorted the stock is now broke. I have no idea if Tencent will justify its valuation, but they have a monopoly in a key communication tool in a fast growing market.

  • guest

    Their messenger is also directed at the African market as well. But I doubt its popularity is high or they even care about it.

  • guest

    Yeah, MS creatively copied others ideas, like apple and xerox.

  • guest

    I know several americans, chinese though, who have several qq #s. I'm not one of them; neither chinese or multiple #s to cheat on games.

  • guest

    That being because QQ is the only IM they've got or can at least trust. I know a lady who keeps one acct for Chinese contacts and the other is for English speakers. Maybe your friends 3rd account is for having an affair. Wouldn't be surprising.

    Also some of those accounts get reused. The premium pay ones (i had one when i tried it the 2nd time and then lost it for not paying) get recycled. Some even buy others #s if they are low ones or are deemed "lucky" because they have multiple 7s and such. Yeah, people trade QQ user #s. Try finding that on ICQ.

  • guest

    Their QQPet exe is also listed as a spyware file.

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