Location Isn’t A War Between Two Sides, It’s A Gold Rush For Everyone
Guest Author
Mar 19, 2010

Editor’s note: This post was written by Joe Stump, the co-founder of SimpleGeo, a geolocation infrastructure company. While much of the focus in location these days is on the front-end side of things, SimpleGeo focuses on the backend, allowing startups to very easily get started with geolocation.

There’s been a lot of coverage lately about the location “war” between Gowalla and Foursquare. Nobody is arguing that Gowalla and Foursquare aren’t, on some levels, competing, but I do think a lot of people are missing the big picture here. Which is the impending location gold rush.

My cofounder, Matt Galligan, and I firmly believe that location is in a similar position as social was in 2001 or so. By that I mean that, at the time, social was very nascent, but exciting as it gave us a whole new view of the data we consume every day. Over the course of almost 10 years we’ve seen social get baked into everything from photo sharing to financial tools. I think that location, similarly, gives us an interesting new view of our data.

This momentum has been slowly gaining steam since, essentially, the iPhone was released. We, the developers and general nerd populous, finally had an open platform that had location (in the form of latitude and longitude of our users) baked into it. The first wave of location services made location the core feature. Much like social, this isn’t sustainable long-term. You can’t be “Some Company plus location” and expect to sustain users. Especially after Some Company enables location themselves.

Which bring us to the second wave of location, which I think was started by our friends at Foursquare. They were, in my opinion, the first product to gain traction by moving past simple location and building an experience on top of it. It’s as if co-founders Dennis Crowley and Naveen Selvadurai said, “Okay, we have location, but that’s boring. Let’s make a game out of going out with our friends!” In other words, they worked under the assumption of having location and built a compelling experience from there.

I think people who are building location-based applications need to keep two things in mind:

1. If there’s any war brewing, it’s over presence. That is the very basic question of where you and your friends are and who may know those details. Gowalla, Foursquare, Loopt, et al, if they wish to own presence, will be duking it out with Twitter and Facebook. For anyone who’s not already in this game it’s going to be very hard to break into it at this point.

2. You need to move past the mindset that location is the feature. Build products under the assumption that you have a user’s location and that you can use the social plumbing we’ve been building for the last nine years. What kind of interesting experiences can you build on top of the potent mixture of friends, location, and the real world?

So who’s going to win? More than just one company. The users are going to get more interesting and compelling experiences, some familiar names will revolutionize their products with location, and some kid in a garage we haven’t heard of is about to make us all look like fools.

I can’t wait.

[photo: flickr/bogenfreund]

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  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=2703928 Kate Studwell

    fool’s gold!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=711113723 Rohit Shah

    Great Article! Loved it. Location seems to be very important aspect to keep in mind for all developers.

  • Research

    These two sites are not the only one who are going to be in the battle. There is a new one as well happenex.com which connects you to cities and people.

    It allows people to place stories (restaurant reviews, your own problems… you name it), pictures and videos to cities where they want them to be seen.

    They also have a slightly different approach than foursquare and gowalla because on happenex! you actually can follow people and CITIES. So even you are away in NY you know what is going on in your city.

    I think the model of check-ins is too weak to be a gold rush.

  • My Locator ®

    To think gowalla and foursquare will battle for presence against facebook and twitter is wishful thinking.
    The presence battle is between preexisting “Branded Channels” (domains) more than anything. Branded Billionaire companies that can squash competitors in a heartbeat.
    Location based software and open api is virtually free and will be built into all future website developer offerings. If the user interface offerings are a dime a dozen the only thing left is the “Channel Domain”. If your LBS domain name makes no sense users will less likely to locate or adopt your presence.
    In the “Battle for Presence” only serious LBS domainers need apply.

  • Adam Gutterman

    Just because you can build it, it doesn’t mean people will necessarily come. Gowalla and Foursquare are NOT interesting products. Neither is Loopt, etc. This is why they can’t gain wide adoption.

    No one can build an interesting product around it, because the consumers don’t care. It’ll remain a feature forever, and the fringe products that exploit that feature will make a little money here and there, but nothing close to the “Social” category, which has made billions for those that have taken advantage.

  • deleo

    It’s so early. What if Facebook jumps into this full steam? Everyone is already on Facebook. They could take this over in months.

    I think Foursquare with its game and badges is keeping itself to a niche audience. It’s kind of like Dungeons and Dragons. Some people think that playing this location game is really fun and cool, but most people don’t care to learn it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=16404762 James Gillmore

    Ur right about what’s on the market thus far. But I assure u there will be some products that truly get it right. And it will happen by adding a few other ingredients.

    James from FaceySpacey.com

  • Rich Riker

    I agree with the first point. Being first to market is a tremendous advantage. To me the location aspect of these tools is interesting but the part I am interested to see is to mine the intent at that location.

    If I am at Starbucks, I’m buying coffee. If I am at the mall, I am shopping for something. To be able to see my shopping list (an indication of my interests/shopping) and them pitch me discounts, products or related items would be cool. Stores got to love pitching a shopper with cash in hand to spend.

  • Marski

    Exactly. I simply don’t understand why I would use foursquare. What’s its purpose? Even if we put the privacy concerns aside, these sites are just pointless.

  • Dog Breath

    “1. If there’s any war brewing, it’s over presence. That is the very basic question of where you and your friends are…”

    This recalls Buckaroo Banzai’s First Law: “Wherever you go, there you are.” In other words, the question of where you and your friends are has already been adequately addressed.

    Re: “[social media] gave us a whole new view of the data we consume every day…”

    Social media has nothing to do with the data I consume everyday.

  • Dog Breath

    “These two sites are not the only one who are going to be in the battle.”

    I believe the title of the article said as much.

    “There is a new one as well happenex.com which connects you to cities and people.”

  • Lou S. Cruz

    Adam….exactly….blah, blah, blah, disable, disable, disable, find something of value, please.

  • http://www.evansink.com Perry Evans

    Levi Stump it is.

  • KT

    Another negaton. /sigh

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=516859481 Andrew MacDonald

    I actually agree with Adam, regardless of what you other guys say.

    I have absolutely no interest in location, despite being one of the geeks who has to be into and have all the latest gadgets, sites etc, but location for me, i just don’t care about it.

  • Adam Gutterman

    That’s the crux of my point, Andrew – thanks for sharing.

    I and my colleague and my friends are always the early adopters when it comes to any technology. I have exactly 2 friends on Facebook that “check in”. Another gave it up a year ago. NO ONE CARES. These vanity metrics of “Thousands of check ins a day” are just that – empty vanity stats. They don’t translate to actual reach or, more to the point, revenue.

  • http://davidalexberger.com/2010/03/19/on-the-growth-of-location/ On the growth of “location”… « Sorry, I Was On Mute…

    [...] “location” within social media applications has become deafening.  And I thought this short piece from the founder of a geolocation provider adds some interesting perspective (obnoxious reference to [...]

  • KT

    But to say ‘no one can build an interesting product around it’ is a bit naive. Hell, we haven’t even seen the greatest potential of location.

    I’d wait to see what others have to feed us. When it offers more real-world value, opinions will change. MG is laughing because once location takes off, he’ll tell us all ‘told ya so.’ That’s why I remain excited, instead of simply being a negaton about it all.

  • Adam Gutterman

    I’ll back off from the statement that “no one can build an interesting product around it”. You’re right – that’s incredibly naive. I have more faith in entrepreneurs than that.

    What I have no faith in is the current flaccid line of products. MG touts them like they are a BFD, when they never will be.

    If MG wants to tout location as a BFD, and challenge entrepreneurs to make a great product around it, he should and I’d be there cheering them on. But MG is obsessed with the current location products, which are horrible.

  • Goog knows me

    Oh Hai.

    We sell location services. We “firmly believe” you can buy our product. Everyone now. D-I-F.

    Pleeze??

    -Joe & Matt

  • http://librarianchat.com/forum/ librarianchat

    Of course he believes that. Why does he care if it’s a war or everyone is going to win?
    He wins regardless.

  • Anonymous

    The problem I see at this point, is adoption. The number of mainstream users who have geo-enabled smartphones is pretty small. I’m positive it will grow, but developing services at this stage would be like trying to build Facebook or Twitter back in 1995. The mainstream adopters simply don’t have the technology yet, and probably won’t for a couple of years.

    Also, I think a better option will be to develop mobile apps in the browser, with access to the location API. That way everyone is using the most recent version, and new features are easily implemented. Again, developing a native app at this point is even worse– now you’re not only developing Facebook or Twitter in 1995, but now it’s a native DOS app.

  • Anonymous

    Perhaps social media has nothing to do with the data you consume, but for hundreds of millions of others… it does.

  • Bob Rogers

    I wish Gowalla and Foursquare would go away. They really are not that interesting. They are just over-hyped because you are all looking for the next big thing – this is not it. Not everyone want you to know where they are at all times. People are going to be put off on all of these Gowalla and FourSquare tweets. For this to become really big, you are going to need some celebs to start using it – and they are most likely not going to want you to know where they are all the time.

    Location based applications can be the future. But Gowalla, Loopt, and Foursquare do not fit into the equation.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=516637665 Mitchell Harper

    100% agreed. It’s only a matter of time until Facebook enable location services to check in. That rolls out to 400M people on laptops (location via Google Gears or FireFox), iPhones, iPads, Blackberries, etc, then it’s game set match.

  • 5ste

    Foursquare have the right idea in having m.foursquare.com. Location isn’t just about GPS it’s about what you want to share

    -Sent via TechCrunch App

  • Laura

    Awesome post Joe.

    To take the analogy to social a step further, Foursquare, Gowalla and Loopt indeed may get surpassed by a new player. Facebook was relatively late in the game to social, but have clearly emerged as a leader. It will be interesting as well, to see how the new location companies refine their products and what new companies may bring to the fold.

  • Mike

    I agree with Adam here. The problem with these sites is that most people don’t really care about where someone is; do you really need to know that your friend is shopping at the newest Gap or that so-and-so is buying a latte at the Starbucks down the street? I would venture to guess the answer is a resounding “no” for the vast majority of people. If someone wants to get in touch with a friend, he or she can just email, text, or phone them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=686827804 Wayne Lambright

    I agree, it its a gold rush. To me its like 1997 all over again. I’m working on a twitter classified advertising system, I have 125,000 customers that will and can port over, so this might be a nice new twist. Obviously location based.

  • Adam

    I agree with Adam. Location on top of being a privacy concern, is just plain boring. I don’t even see it being a strong feature in the future and even if I have to eat my words, I can think of no possible reason that I would want to give any service my own location.

  • http://www.yourlocalblog.com Dan Cote

    I believe businesses and local organizations have a big stake in the location land rush. The more they embrace location and give incentives to users…the more users will want to use apps such as foursquare.

    Everything will depend on what value there is for both the user and the business.

    -Dan Cote
    Founder of http://www.YourLocalBlog.com
    (A hyperlocal map-based blogging network)

  • http://alexiatsotsis.com/2010/03/19/war-what-is-it-good-for-absolutely-everything/ Alexia Tsotsis » War, what is it good for? Absolutely everything.

    [...] never be a Foursqualla just like there never was a Myfriendface — because there’s no such thing as friends, in [...]

  • Max

    “some kid in a garage we haven’t heard of is about to make us all look like fools”

    That kid is me. Just wait for a few months.

  • josh

    So I guess you’re the type of person who takes his name off the do not call list or voluntarily checks the 3 point “Send me thousands of annoying emails everyday from useless third party companies” checkbox?

  • Jim

    It’s not a Gold Rush, it’s a Gamble.

    As others have said. No one cares, and they especially don’t care to share their location.

    The #1 thing that should be on location-based startups’ minds is how they are going to build trust and confidence with potential/current users. Sharing one’s location is a very sensitive…subject. More so than photos, favorite movies, etc.

    How are they going to assure users that the data they submit and mark as private will stay that way? Who knows, that company might revamp their privacy controls, or decide on what the new social norm should be, and expose all of that data.

    I see a trend, and it doesn’t support the buzz that the folks at TechCrunch and developers at various location start ups are creating. My friends and I hopped on Brightkite when it first came out, and we haven’t touched it since.

    I spammed my Facebook account with Foursquare and Gowalla check-ins for months, and only one friend decided to give it a try, only to delete his account a few days later because, “I don’t want people to know where I am.” But it’s private. “I don’t care, it’s creepy.”

    You’ve been able to geotag tweets for months now. One person on the list of people I’m following (dev, designers, various other nerds) has done it, and no one else has geotagged a tweet since Twitter rolled it out last week. I figured I would see a jump when Twitter announced it from people who just wanted to see what it was like.

    It’s going to take a lot more than cute badges to get people to fork over their longitude and latitude coordinates.

    Location will be big and excel where it has for centuries. Helping people find stuff and tell them where they stand. A social layer over that will turn the majority off.

  • http://eyesonbrazil.com tudobeleza

    Perhaps delayed check in for celebs might be interesting for ex, those wanting to order the same meal that some celeb just ordered at a restaurant that celeb just left. Plenty of people ‘eat up’ that celebrity bullsh*t, so why not give the lemmings a helping hand?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1241181 Peter Chang

    The first point seems a little naive. Think about the smartphone penetration before the iphone and then after the iphone. Before it was just business people using blackberries. Now it’s so common to see people with iPhones, droids, etc. Many of the people I know at least use Facebook for mobile.

  • sonia

    As a user, it’s imperative that sharing your location with strangers is all your responsibility, common sense will tell you that somehow privacy should be still on the hemisphere of your brain.

    Location based services like Foursquare knows this.. the question is, why do people still have issues about this?… Know more: http://bit.ly/foursquare-detailed-review

  • Anonymous

    Alright, I’ll admit it’s not like 1995 (15 years ago already)… But I still think location-based services are a couple years before their time.

    As you said, people already us Facebook mobile… so it’s not too much of a stretch to imagine that people would also “check in” with Facebook mobile as well.

  • http://www.liveintent.com Dave Hendricks

    Many of the commenters here seem to want to troll their dislike for location, unfortunately.

    Joe is right that location is going to be very important. Information has many dimensions, context being one of them. Location is one important contextual element that will be woven into many of the apps we use.

    The ‘Check-in’ apps are just the beginning. Their applications of Geo data are the obvious first moves. Who knew ‘photos’ were that interesting 15 years ago, or self-produced video 7 years ago. Now they are a huge part of our experience on the web and we buy devices because they can produce and manage those elements of our experience.

    Location is going to determine many things, including who we follow, where we eat, who we meet, how we get there, etc.

    Detractors: Just because you don’t like Foursquare or Gowalla doesn’t mean that location doesn’t matter. Joe’s company is selling shovels and pick axes to the miners and judging from the increase in their API’s traffic, there are many more applications in the works or in the wild already.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1424766892 Martyn Jackson

    I agree on most of the points here. None of the people I know use these “games”, and I’ve asked some of them if their friends use and it and they don’t. I don’t see it catching on really.

  • Dog Breath

    Ah, but the Guest Author said it had to do with me (he used the word “you”).

    As for the hundreds of millions of others you mention, how many people actually use facebook or its likes “everyday”? How many of those hundreds of millions of facebook accounts are duplicates–the same person using multiple identities?
    As for the money in it, how much money is being spent by a person while on facebook? The money is elsewhere.

  • sparky

    Stupid idea. Bad site.

  • http://www.skill-guru.com skillguru

    Location will turn out to be more interesting in future. People would come out with some fascinating products and services to make good use of the location feature.

  • Kyle

    Wait, wait, wait. You claimed people didn’t think video or photos would be interesting 7 or 15 years ago? Really? People were all, I hate cameras in 2003?

  • igzkap

    now seriously what did u love about the article ? if u ask me its just a few paragraphs of common knowledge trying to sound visionary

    and since when is foursquare or gowalla a synonym to location , they are games.

    let me tell you what i want from my location services
    : when i leave my office i want all my work related data to stop bugging me (work related calls go to voicemail , emails dont come in etc.)
    on the other hand when i enter my office the next morning i want to be notified of the entire message que i missed and go trough
    i want to enter my bedroom with my phone and the think goes to vibrate
    i want to go around my supermarket and my phone starts rining buy milk here ( of course a msg from my girlfriend)
    when i go out i want to know where my friends are but not in which part of the city or street but the actuall pub (that they dont have to check in goes without saying)
    when i go shopping i do want to get the good deals on my , any device, as i walk by (even inside a mall)
    etc..

    so as u can see most of the things i actually find usefull in life require a different approach to location in terms of hardware so until this is solved location will remain a game or a nice perk
    for the patient who are willing to hold their phone for 30 second outside or be localized as their near by gsm cell

  • http://droidfreeapps.com droid free apps

    “fool’s gold!”? Seriously?
    Is like saying Google’s rush for mobile and all this drama with Apple is foolish? Go get a break.

    Mobile/Smartphone is about to speed pass laptop/desktop computing, and guess who is taking a free, location, location, location!!! thanks to GPS

    Why else do you think Apple is stopping developers from messing with location based mobile ads?

    The future of computing is mobile, and the future of search and mobile ads is location…. Every other services, like mobile social networks, will fall into places, but you can be sure a lot of money will be made from mobile location based advertisements… or why else do you think Google bought Admob?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=621599484 Paramendra Kumar Bhagat

    FourSquare is in the lead. They need to cement that by coming up with a Facebook Connect thing for location.

  • http://www.ArticlePlayground.com/ Article Playground

    Please feel free anytime to send some xXx $ gUaP # xXx this way. Lots of bills need to be paid in this poor person’s house :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=18811629 Dennis Yu

    I figure that the folks who read TechCrunch– you, if you’re reading my comment– is significantly more technically sophisticated than the average user. And that user, when they discover truly useful applications that take advantage of location, will judge for themselves.

    The opinion of BlitzLocal is that true value will come from local businesses and local patrons who are able to connect more deeply than the current batch of apps out there, in the same way that Facebook is different from Twitter– a filtered experience versus random noise.

    It’s early in the game– or it hasn’t even started. Not until your mom is active on her phone.

  • Daniel

    I don’t understand how this is a gold rush. If anything, location is something which can be added as an additional feature to existing sites like Facebook. I don’t really see the point in creating new ventures based on location, when location is something that can easily be added to any site (and connected back through Facebook). Gowalla and Foursquare have interesting apps, for sure, however in the end I don’t know if what they are creating is a completely new business model or just a nice value-added feature that can be easily copied by the big guys.

  • http://www.afroginthevalley.com/2010/03/22/location-isn%e2%80%99t-a-war-between-two-sides-it%e2%80%99s-a-gold-rush-for-everyone/ Location Isn’t A War Between Two Sides, It’s A Gold Rush For Everyone – A Frog in the Valley

    [...] I am really looking forward WhereCamp SF 2010 to discuss emerging Geo standards with Joe. We need standard representations of places and activities, I’m planning on a session on Places in Activity Streams somewhere Saturday… [Via Location Isn’t A War Between Two Sides, It’s A Gold Rush For Everyone] [...]

  • http://www.narominded.com/2010/03/foursquare-mes-amis-mon-iphone-et-moi/ Foursquare, mes amis, mon iPhone et moi — [Naro] Minded

    [...] – Location Isn’t A War Between Two Sides, It’s A Gold Rush For Everyone [...]

  • http://proximateworld.com/2010/03/25/week-in-review-9/ Week in Review « PROXIMATE WORLD

    [...] – SimpleGeo Co-founder Joe Stump: “Location isn’t a war, it’s a goldrush for all. [...]

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