Justin.TV Turns To Law Professor Eric Goldman As It Battles Live Video Piracy
Erick Schonfeld
Mar 15, 2010

Before livestreaming video networks like Justin.TV can become attractive to advertisers, they need to deal with their piracy issues. It’s the same thing YouTube had to go through, except with live video streams. Like YouTube, Justin.tv complies with DMCA takedown notices and is developing digital fingerprinting technology to identify copyrighted video on its network automatically. It also invites copyright owners to police the site directly.

Despite these measures, a casual perusal of the most popular streams on Justin.tv is filled with pirated streams of professional sports, TV shows, and movies. Right now, for instance, you can watch King of Queens or CNN International, taken straight from TV. The company finds itself increasingly under fire for copyright issues. To help it deal with these issues, Justin.tv now has a new adviser, Eric Goldman, the director of the High Tech Law Institute at Santa Clare University and a highly-respected Internet law blogger. Unlike Justin.TV’s very-expensive lawyers at Wilson Sonsini, Goldman will be less constrained in speaking publicly on behalf of the company about these issues.

Goldman is an expert on how copyright law is applied to user-generated content. But in many ways live video on the Web is a new beast. It is hard for even a vigilant copyright holder to deliver a takedown notice if the video is only live on the Web for an hour. Competitor Livestream takes a “Zero Tolerance Policy” on piracy and challenges its competitors to do the same. Livestream does pretty much the same things Justin.tv does to fight piracy, with one major exception: it limits new channels to 50 concurrent viewers until the channel is authorized manually as a legitimate channel. Should Justin.tv do the same thing? Goldman dismisses Livestream’s zero tolerance policy as somewhat of a marketing pitch, but he thinks the concept of limiting a user’s “ability to put up content until they are proven trustworthy” is worth exploring.

CEO Michael Seibel notes that Livestream can do that because it is pursuing more of an enterprise strategy than a consumer-driven one. He also notes: “We work with the copyright owners. If copyright owners were not happy with us, they would be suing our pants off.” So far, Justin.TV has not been sued in the U.S., while competitor Ustream cannot say the same. Seibel sounds sincere when he tells me, “I don’t want that content on my site.” He really believes he can make money off the pure user-generated video, which costs him one third of a penny for every hour streamed, versus the half-a-penny per hour he can make just on remnant ads.

But if Justin.tv is really serious about cleaning up the pirated streams on it network, why not simply police itself and strip the most questionable content from at least the most popular channels to start? In the bizarro world of created by the DMCA, legally it can’t. Under the DMCA, the responsibility for finding copyright violations lies with the copyright holders. The second that a site starts to take on that responsibility itself, it risks losing the protection of the DMCA’s “safe harbor” provision. So Justin.TV can give copyright holders the tools to remove content from the site, but can’t do it themselves.

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  • anon

    That last part about not being able to self moderate is simply not true. If that was the case, how could they moderate for things like pornography and child pornography, which they obviously do now. Lots of providers throw around this statement like its true, but there is no law on the books to support it.

  • http://www.phash.org anon

    What they really should be using is pHash to help prevent copyright infringement.

  • anon2

    I don’t know anything about the law behind this, but isn’t pornography obviously different as it needs to be removed independent of copyright infringement and therefore isn’t related to the DMCA at all..

  • Paul

    How could Justin.tv “sound sincere” about not wanting “that content” on their site, when they actually monetize those streams by forcing viewers to pay to watch? Don’t know if they do that in the USA, but they certainly do that for us European viewers, and probably the rest of the world too.

  • Rak

    “Under the DMCA, the responsibility for finding copyright violations lies with the copyright holders. The second that a site starts to take on that responsibility itself, it risks losing the protection of the DMCA’s “safe harbor” provision.”

    What part of that do you not understand? It’s very true.

    Your point about child pornography has nothing to do with it as that isn’t covered by the DMCA, so yes of course they can remove that. It’s a completely different thing.

  • Anonymous Tech

    There is a difference between pirated content and felony/illegal content. As the article states, they cannot police themselves for Copyrighted materials as they stand to lose the “Safe Harbor” provision as set out in the DMCA guidelines.

    Policing for child pornography is a different situation entirely, and falls under a completely different set of rules as a result.

  • lazyaudio77

    If they pay to watch,people will fine away to avoid that. Like leo laporte said once,he would love to have a pay service but it will not work.

  • John

    Eventually the providers will realize that they can’t stop live streaming on the internet anymore than they can stop downloading MP3s. Specially in the case of out of market sports events live streaming online is about the only choice viewers are going to have. Embrace it and learn how to monetize it or fight it and lose.

  • http://drivingonlinesales.com Wynne

    I think that Justin.TV is just covering their ass. They know where the money is, and it doesn’t include taking down pirated video footage.

  • John

    I highly doubt that they’re not allowed to remove copyrighted materials themselves though I’m not a lawyer. Transmitting copyrighted material has to be against the TOS and certainly a site can police it’s TOS. Else how could eBay prevent selling Nazi material for example which is certainly legal.

  • http://librarianchat.com/forum/ librarianchat

    Without pirated streams what the hell do they have?

  • MasterDave

    I personally haven’t figured out WHY it’s objectionable to ESPN to have their content streamed on Justin.tv.

    it’s not filtering ads. You’re getting the same thing as on your television. Ads included. Ads are how the companies make their money (or should be, ESPN I suppose has a bigger argument that the bulk of their money comes through extortion fees paid to the cable company for every basic cable plan everyone in the country subscribes to).

    You’re not getting hacked up commercial-free piracy on justin.tv you’re getting live and intact things. Except most of the time you can’t get a US-based stream because I guess people in the US are too scared to do it so we get someone (of all places) in the UK streaming NFL games for the people stuck at work or behind a blackout. (idiotic policy there too).

    And i’d pay too, but the NFL wants to keep streaming video only for people who subscribe to DirectTV, so that’s out. But I’d pay as much for NFL games as i do baseball games (20/mo) in a heartbeat if they offered it. Too bad.

    So I’ll stick with trying to find a pirated stream of the game I want to see every week on Justin.tv and that’s just how it’s gonna work. The NFL will still get their revenue from advertising and if they’re unwilling to offer an equal product, I don’t see why they should stop me from finding an alternative they won’t provide if it’s still including all of their content and advertising.

  • Andy

    Why would anyone pirate King of Queens? It’s awful.

  • http://www.attano.com Attano

    A video is not pirated as long as its original copy is retained and is not used for commercial gain.

    If Justin.tv does it, then they are clear!

  • http://www.yahoo.com pyrillix

    I have to agree with Dave, if the content is simply rebroadcast (not including pay per veiw) , how are they hurt, EMOTIONALLY, ARTISTICALLY OR FINANCIALLY? They are not losing money but gaining a worldwide audience. And that is probalbly why the major networks dont really scream all that loud. They get distribution without having to pay the bandwidth costs or build complex distribution Data center..Its the sports licensees that seems to have the biggest problem with it. However if I want to watch something, I will find it, If I have to tell someone in that area to stream it to me,,,

  • M2

    Fine ban pirated streams, and fade into obscurity. Veetle is better anyway.

  • Anonymous Tech

    There is a difference between pirated content and felony/illegal content. As the article states, they cannot police themselves for Copyrighted materials as they stand to lose the “Safe Harbor” provision as set out in the DMCA guidelines.

    Policing for Illegal Content is a different situation entirely, and falls under a completely different set of rules as a result.

    I don’t know why you guys can’t just read the article FFS.

  • http://newteevee.com/2010/03/16/vid-biz-crackle-maniatv-mondo-media/ Vid-Biz: C-Span, Crackle, ManiaTV

    [...] Justin.TV Turns To Law Professor Eric Goldman As It Battles Live Video Piracy; live streaming site retains law blogger as adviser on copyright issues. (TechCrunch) [...]

  • http://ebookratgeber.net/products/?p=2307 Internet TV & Satellite TV & Digital Products » Blog Archive » Justin.TV Turns To Law Professor Eric Goldman As It Battles Live Video Piracy

    [...] Read more on TechCrunch [...]

  • Ilan Ben Menachem

    LIKE THE TOPIC

  • http://www.enterwarez.com/justin-tv-turns-to-law-professor-eric-goldman-as-it-battles-live-video-piracy Justin.TV Turns To Law Professor Eric Goldman As It Battles Live Video Piracy | Warez, Softwares, Downloads, Videos

    [...] more on TechCrunchTags: Battles, Eric, Goldman, Justin.TV, LIVE, Piracy, Professor, Turns, Video Posted on 18th March [...]

  • http://midvestments.com/1365/vid-biz-c-span-crackle-maniatv/ Vid-Biz: C-Span, Crackle, ManiaTV «

    [...] Justin.TV Turns To Law Professor Eric Goldman As It Battles Live Video Piracy; live streaming site retains law blogger as adviser on copyright issues. (TechCrunch) [...]

  • http://mrmacsnewjtvwoodshed.blogspot.com/ Bon Jovi

    I will say that Justin tv is a complete joke. When you ask a staff appointed administrator a question regarding illegal streams or underage children being sexually harassed on Justin tv, you will more often than not be banned from the site yourself. The staff also refuses to answer any serious questions in their weekly "Founderschat" meet-and-great, ignoring serious issues (or having their moderators ban you for asking them) and instead focusing on talking how awesome they are and how cool their buggy iPhone app is. On the rare occasion that you do get a response to questions concerning illegal content and children being asked to strip on cam by adults, one of the people in charge of JTV, Evan Solomon, answers with arrogant statements of "I'm not going to answer that question because it's just not interesting enough". Spend 5 minutes on Justin tv and in their so called HELP channel and you will see what a joke and a disgrace the site really is.

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