"Prior to Google, Vic worked 15 years at Microsoft as General Manager of Microsoft’s developer outreach efforts"

I think he wasted so many years at Microsoft..

“It turns out on the internet, people are annoyed by Flash.”

fixed it.

errr, i'm pretty sure the gloves came off months ago…like maybe when googs brought in multitouch to the droid and nexus1

It's kind a bizarro world where Google portrays itself as the little guy, but they may not be all wrong.

If flash is supported on android, people will stop using HTML5 and think: "Well flash works and android, why use HTML5?"

Didn't Jobs characterize it as being response to "Search Advertising" which isn't happening???
(Can't fit that side bar of ads on mobile search, and no one is clicking on them.)
That's why Job's is trying to up the ante in ads within apps. I don't think it isn't true.

Sorry dude, I meant to upvote you. This thing doesn't allow changing the vote.

google mobile search is rough…and it is increasingly unreliable when looking up information that is not commmercially driven.

wow, this is really great for mobile phones though apple has a huge lead basically Andriod is becoming the MS of mobile phones http://wp.me/pRpuJ-o

good luck vic…steve jobs is a pretty formidable foe.

Give me a break! Apple is not some fascist government and Google is not freedom loving political revolutionaries trying to free us from Apple's enslavement. You can buy Apple products or not. The only reason it seemed like Apple was taking over was because their product was the best.

I know it's confusing when someone or some company starts doing things differently then we are used to (Apple being closed instead of open). But, by saying Apple being this way is bad is actually hypocritical. I like the chose of having an ecosystem that is closed down and integrate within itself and controlled by a single vision. It's not bad. Apple is not running anyones life.

Get over it.

Am I alone in getting tired of hearing companies like Adobe and Google, who earn all of their income from proprietary, trademarked, patented and copyrighted products, dropping the "open" word over and over and over.

"Google doesn’t want a future where one man controls mobile" — That explains it all, question is, does Google really meant the word 'Open'. Actually, ever since the bout of Apple against Flash, I was sure it'll came on a day that it'll become Apple Vs Google — This is just the beginning.

Why is it always "vs" you know although life people are always at war. Why can't people just make a choice that suits them and everybody respect that. OK so apple does not want to support Flash, there will be consequences but they probably know that. Google supports flash, great!

But why make out that one is worse then the other my car uses unleaded petrol does that mean that anyone that use diesel is an idiot, I like starbucks you may like costa. So what all that means is that there are choices that have consequences and benefits. Can everyone just get along. If companies are saying that they support a "do know evil" why not refrain from slagging of the competition and just wish them well in their venture while you focus on yours. I use both companies and more.

I host sites on Linux that are built with Adobe tools, use Windows and Mac OS and love Googles array of services. I say thank you to all of them for building products I can use to do my job everyday. Why not replace the hate with appreciation for all the hard work that teams of designers and developers do on all sides.

Thats my two cents worth anyhow.

I just loaded Nickelodeon on my iPad no problem. Paste "Nickelodeon" in the address bar without quotes, hit the .com button andhttp://www.nick.com loads right up. So why this discrepancy with the stage theatrics? Is google not resorting to con jobs, I don't get it. This pissing contest with apple is a classless act.

Ouch. I know Apple has a lot of things that it prides itself in and a lot of stuff to be proud of, but lately its been acting a lot like Redmond of old. The irony is, while a lot of people who just "discovered" Apple are probably riled by some of Google's shots at Apple, you have no idea how much Steve and Co. took shots at Microsoft in keynotes. Apple so loved its "bake-off" style comparisons to show off the speed of whichever Mac. Yeah, its a great time to be in technology.

"Google doesn’t want a future where one man controls mobile."

I like that

Well, Won't say he wasted his time. He wouldn't have been where he is now without that prior experience. But yes, I think he might be more suited at Google, compared to MS.

Google does have the knack of assigning the right positions/responsibilities to the right persons. I just hope Android 2.2 exceeds expectations though. Can't wait for the Google Tablet to come out.

Same as Apple who's not open at all and claims to be on Steve Job's letter…

Ah, so the timing of Steve's Flash rant wasn't a coincidence. He certainly knew that Froyo 2.2 would be announced shortly with Flash front and center running just fine (with touch, good battery life etc). Since his closed business model forces him to ban Flash (and similar technologies), he decided to fire first and position (ie misdirect) this as a religious battle. If the iFanboys keep chanting his spin it might prevent them from even noticing that Flash is fine on mobile. Reality distortion field by proxy…

Mobile ads are the next round of this battle. It will be interesting to see how Admob vs iAds plays out because that's where all the growth in advertising $$$ are.

Google wants a future where Google controls mobile. Duh.

In the current Mobile Market scenario, ahem….Google is the little guy indeed.
However, I hope its not like that forever. Apple needs some TOUGH competition to keep its "eccentricity" in check!

You can say that again.

lunkhead you can make your own flash player if you wanted too and their are free tools to make flash applications the specification is right their on their website. apple is a pain with their locked Alcatraz-like platform.

the specification:http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/

can you access the nickolodean games?

"Open web standards" is what Jobs was talking about. HTML5 over Flash, etc

And actually, both Apple and Google have been great in supporting them.

That's not what he claims in his "Thoughts on Flash" post. He says that the iPhone OS and the app store are a proprietary system but that Safari on the Mac and the iPhone support open standards. Safari for the Mac allows a Flash plug in because it doesn't rely on a battery… but that Flash is the biggest reason for crashes of Safari on the Mac.

Don't make shit up.

It depends on where you are. I've had pretty good luck with local search on my Verizon Droid Incredible (Android 2.1). So far the only major glitch is that it sent me way off course on the Google Maps for a place where it had the right street address. Here in PDX it's pretty good.

Saying Flash is Open is like saying Microsoft Office is open. MS open the office document specification as well, but MS Office is still the only one in the market who can truly create and render the document.

“It turns out, on the internet, people use Flash….Part of being open means you’re inclusive rather than exclusive.”

Classic.

This is good. Competition is generally behind most waves of innovations. Google and Apple will try to outdo each other, and that will mean an increased functionality for the consumers. I look forward to this.

Exactly, they must think we are idiots.

Yes, because Gnash has been so successful as a replacement player from Adobe's Flash Player. Oh wait, it hasn't. The problem with Adobe's "spec" is that it isn't complete. And the "critical" components for the stuff people actually like flash for (ie. Video) aren't there. You'll never be able to play Hulu videos in Gnash because they don't have the DRM requirements. So, while you'll be able to play some games and some ads, the killer app for Flash will never work on Gnash. So it's not open either.

This progression is really exciting, Google is a monster but at the moment a consumer friendly monster. It has to be one of the most competitive company out there, they are involved in so much.

Why? Once you could've make the same argument again Ajax/Javascript technologies, but they clearly did just fine.

So was Bill Gates. Back in the day he practically begged Apple to write an OS that ran on PCs and even offered to set up meetings with IBM (he didn't think DOS was a viable long-term competitor). At that time Apple was the world's largest PC company by volume.

Something tells me Eric Schmidt offered up something similar and Jobs spurned the opportunity once again.

History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes.

Don't buy Apple then!! It seems so simple! At this point Apple leads the way for sales of mobile devices period. But this is america and you can either support the leader or buy the follower… Your choice

Word. "Marketplace Choice: You Has It."

There are many other vendors for Flash development.

Swishzone makes a number of Flash authoring products (http://www.swishzone.com) and Electric Rain makes Swift3D that is extensively used for wireframing and 3D modeling in the Flash environment (http://www.erain.com). And hey, Swift3D is on version 6 so clearly the company has a long-term success in Flash authoring.

Know the technology and marketplace before making such inaccurate statements. Damn.

This guy is an ass. My ipad is blazing fast. I guess the 1 or 2 phones 2.2 android will be on will be worth it. Lol. What a joke. This phone has 1.2. This one 2.1. This one … Etc. Open like that equals crap. And so does flash. Peace.

Agreed completely.

Don’t worry. A free and open market will take care of that.

Google made most of their money from advertising.
Why do people assume they would be great at other things.

I think it's like microsoft in the 90s, people are impressed when somebody makes a lot of money.
Everybody knows what money is, technology is harder to have an opinion on.

We are witnessing Evolution.
Apple is now the old man of the tech world and has now been overtaken by the new kid on the block, Android. Apple is stagnating while Google and Android are innovating.
Every major player eventually gets overtaken by the competition and now its Apples time to start falling behind. With so many companies going after Apple over patent thefts, Apple and its fan boys should be running scared

I think that Apple is making a big mistake. Google will absolutely stomp them.

Looks like a fanboy has just spat his dummy out. Keep buying the dictators products, while your at it, why dont you buy your nan some as well. Time to face facts fan boy, Android is better that the iphone.

Yeah, these products can totally replace Adobe CS authoring tools, not. Please do not mislead. Adobe owns flash. simple as that.

Not entirely true. Apple is pushing for h.264 across everything, a wonderfully patented video codec that people have to pay big bucks to license. I even read a quote from MPEG that a person encoding h.264 video in their home for personal use is open for a lawsuit. If we instead adopt WebM or Theora or some other open video codec, licensing fees go away, so all of our precious gadgets will cost less to produce. Whether or not the price we pay goes down is up to the market. So in a way Apple is kind of like an internet "government." Not the only government, but they do have some influence over web technologies.

Agree. I am just waiting for the "Hi. I am an Android. And I am an iPad" ads

No one here is discussing the fact that Apple's App Store is a HUGE advantage. Who besides readers of tech blogs cares about incremental speed improvements at the expense of the best selection of apps in one place? I'm a PC user but just ordered an iPad and have been blown away already by the power of the App store experience: so easy to find additional applications that I never even considered let alone knew I wanted. Same reason why Amazon is so awesome. Just like Microsoft can afford to be slow to adopt changes to Windows or Office, Apple doesn't need to be the first to adopt the latest/greatest features on their devices…their App Store is a massive competitive advantage that RIM, Google, and Microsoft are all going to have a hard time going up against.

and there's two down votes in a row, wow multitasking!

You mean "open standards" like the canvas element which is completely owned by Apple, on which Apple reserves all intellectual property rights, and is only licensed royalty free, but still proprietary… just like Flash?

They can, for people that don't need Flash but who might want to import and export to or from Flash or other 3D environments (3DS, Maya, etc). The point is that the "Shockwave" standard is not closed anymore, since other applications can speak the same "language."

Adobe owns flash but they didn't invent it.

And Apple owns the canvas element, simple as that. Why is Apple's proprietary but licensed for free display technology more "open" than Adobe's proprietary but licensed for free display technology?

You need to bone up on your history—you’ve been watching too much "Pirates of Silicon Valley." He begged John Sculley, not Steve Jobs.

Methinks Schmidt did no such thing, either.

Except that Jobs is supposed to be adding in a little feature with your iphone this next update. Unskippable, interrupting ads.http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/apple_files...

And hey, guess what? If you don't pay attention and interact with them? They lock your phone until you get it right. How is that not trying to run someone's life. Most people don't use their iPhones for REALLY important stuff, but if you were doing something important and that happens, what then? But yeah, Apple isn't fascist or anything.

I wish my BMW was "open." That they'd let me modify my car all I wanted and still retain the warranty. What good is my car if I can't tinker with it (and have them fix it if I screw up)?

The idea that one can't exist without the other is quite silly. HTML5 can do a lot of things that Flash can do, but it can't do it all. And while it's often best not to have a middle-man runtime in a browser, that doesn't mean we should just pretend that content isn't there.

Apple wants to build a browser for an Internet that doesn't exist yet, one without Flash. Google wants to build a browser for the world today, where you can access all content possible.

well, well.. I wait to see the first viruses on androïd. Androïd will be like windows. Apple has just to wait for people to be in trouble and come back on iphone.
Google opened ? Google is not opened at all. Google make money with ads and their search engine. Where are the sources of their algorythms ?
Facebook is opened, Google is opened, Apple is opened. They lie, all of them. They make money with private technologies, and are not opened at all to share their secrets. They just need developpers to develop for their technologies. Apple/iphone showed it is the key for success.

GOOG is the new MSFT:

Don’t invent shit. Just copy other people’s ideas (spying from AAPL’s board room) or buy a small creative company (Android). Then put a spin on the truth (open, open, open, open, ad nauseum).

They’re all corporations out for themselves people. No freedom fighters among them.

And you need to bone up on your reading competition. I said Bill Gates begged Apple, not Steve Jobs.

I never saw that movie, but I did read Fire in the Valley.

Jobs has a reputation for being an arrogant asshole. Schmidt has a reputation for being a good guy. Which of those do you think is more likely to think win-win?

The Google TV premise best illustrates the essential difference between Google/Apple (open/closed, good/evil, right/wrong etc.): Google TV makes the web and tv as we know it better. Apple iPhone/Pad makes the web suck by not allowing plug-ins and Apple TV makes TV suck by replacing it with the iTunes.

Apple will backpedal on this. Just wait and see. People want flash. Period.

Actually they are… see the Apple fabrication workers in China stuff, about the suicides…

But that's not related here, is it?

Can you spell Nickelodeon? ;)

I agree it was a dick move to use Nickelodeon because it is misleading. Thehttp://nick.com home page loads just fine on an iPad. However while flash games & videos don't load on the iPad the pages certainly aren't blank and orange. You can still access a majority of the content (shows pages, tv schedules, message boards, etc.)

What URL was used for the orange page example? I'd bet most people couldn't find it.

Disclosure: I work on the site in question.

h.264 is not an open web standard.

I agree!

NOT!!!!!!!! Flash is dead dead dead!!!!!

The App Store is not at all an advantage. Yes, they have millions of apps. Most of which is useless junkware. And yes, there is still a lot of useful content. BUT, you'll never have all the useful content you want when the owner is freely throttling every product that comes through it. They literally deny apps that have similar functionality to things already in the mobile OS, regardless of whether or not the new app is better, or if people want it, it just gets censored. It's ridiculous. I should be the one deciding if I want something or not, not the person who happened to market my phone.

hmmmm…. iAds is an anagram of Aids…. And Steve Jobs hasn't been looking too well lately…

You realize that Android has 50,000 apps in its app store, many of which are mirrors of apps on the Apple App Store, right? And, IIRC, 60-70% of Android apps are free.

Poor comparison. A car is a single-purpose device. Smartphones and PCs are multipurpose devices which are adequate for most tasks, but which can benefit greatly from customization when required for more specialized tasks.

Google is taking over the mobile industry little by little.

what I find interesting is how many folks is jumping on the bandwagon here. Flash is popular so everyone hates it. Eventually, apple will be in a place where everyone except those at starbucks.

It's a battle for the hearts and minds of consumers and developers. In the absence of any credible competition Round one went to the iPhone. The Apple app-store has a huge number of apps but by refusing to support Flash they alienate a whole bunch of developers.

Google on the other hand take on Flash and instantly are able to offer the largest selection of apps and possibly more important experienced developers. Round two to Android. (I'm sure it's been said before but 'remember betamax anyone?')

Meanwhile html5 and flash CAN co-exist and we will be able to make meaningful comparisons between the two on the same platform. Adobe will have to sort out any shortcomings in Flash and ultimately it will be a case of survival of the fittest.

By their openness Google are creating competition between the platforms, promoting competition and benefiting consumers. Incidentally I think that the committee nature of HTML5 could work against it especially if Adobe get their act together to fix problems and respond to new developments quickly.

+ 1

actually Apple has opted to become the betamax of mobile phones

Today's Google announcements have me thinking about a few things. First, there's the old adage, never bring a knife to a gun fight. Google is clearly bringing out the big guns. But how they are doing it is interesting. First of all, we saw Android upgrades. No surprise there. Google has been gunning for Apple's space in smartphones so much I'm surprised that Google was represented on Apple's board for as long as they were. The Google TV annoucement was a little weird though. First, Apple TV has always been a "hobby" for Apple and probably doesn't even account for a penny per share of profit. So Google has made a big deal about a new product strategy that up until now, Apple hasn't cared much about and certainly doesn't contribute much to it's bottom line. I can understand the bit with phones and profit, but Google doesn't make any money off of Android. It's still an eyeballs company for it's Adsense product.

The other thing is the strategic direction of Google. For the past two days, Google has been partnering with a whole bunch of people who have a grudge against Apple or someone who's taken their lunch money in recent years. Sony? They're pissed at Apple for the iPod, Nintendo & Microsoft for console gaming and Samsung for televisions. Dish Network? They've always been also-rans to DirecTV but they are royally mad at Tivo for winning (so far) a long running patent dispute worth $200 million. Adobe? Need we say more? "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is not a long term strategic vision. Even Microsoft is scratching their heads today and saying "Huh?"

Is it the app store or the selection of apps that is the advantage? Google is just starting out, but by taking Flash on board they will suddenly have the largest selection. Don't forget that there are thousands of flash developers out there. Two months ago they thought they would have to re-train, now they can develop for Android (and all those other non-iPhone platforms).

Yep, what did Google really invent?

that will teach apple dont bring a knife to a Gundotra fight

Apple doesn't lead sales of mobile devices dude – RIM does. Served.

Well – you do buy apple products so ….

WRONG! The gloves will come off in a few weeks, when Google or Apple announce something else. Then again a week after, then 3 weeks after that, or whenever some literary genius can't think of a decent headline.

Or, people will stop using Android. Sure, little kids don't mind flash ads, I do. Unless there is an easy way to switch it off, and only have it running when I want, this is a huge step back.

Apple does not want flash simply because it and Adobe AIR provide platform independence. That is, if flash/AIR is allowed on iPhone OS than then Apple app store and lock-in begin to break down. Apple is counting on lock-in by using Objective-C and it's API's.

Just my opinion.

What about Wave, Google Fonts, Google Gears, O3D, Native Client, etc, etc. Oh, and they practically re-invented search. All of the aforementioned technologies (except search) – as well as Android, Chromuim, etc. – are open-source. Not to mention that they paid millions for On2 and then open-sourced the VP8 codec. Not exactly spin, Debbie.

Actually…

Apple gave Google and other companies Webkit to use in their browsers.
They hugely evolved (fixed, rewrote, extended) KHTML to be Webkit and under license give it away.
They developed Canvas for its web based dashboard… and licenses it out for free as and it's now the preferred SVG engine and core of HTML5's capacity to deprecate the need for Flash.

Apple could have developed a proprietary browser engine like MS but it chose to use open tech as it often does – and instead of 'embracing, extending, and extinguishing' like MS or 'embracing, extending, and rebranding' like Google – Apple 'embraces, extends, and opens'.

And consequently, Apple's innovations push the market forward to a more open web. Google claims to be open, but owns and dictates Androids development, kisses Adobes butt to spite Apple and hold back an open web.
Google is an MS that makes its money from privacy invasion through search/advertising click revenue sharing deals with mobile device manufacturers who use its Android and later Chrome OS. All the while using Apple's Webkit for nothing. They could have used KTHML and improved it like Apple, but they saved dollars and use Apple's Webkit.

Apple evolved computing to be popular with the first Apple PCs, smartphones with iPhones, and now the tablet market with the iPad, and will continue to push markets towards more user friendly devices and more open web standards like HTML5 powered by standards compliant engines like Webkit.

Apple is one of the older mainstream corporates, and one of the most successful, because it groked what MS and others didn't – you can be closed (as all companies are) and yet open too.

Whereas Google, claims to 'do no evil' with all the private data they skim from you (and your wifi connection), be open, etc… to make a buck through advertising, and has become the new MS in search and now mobile. Congrat's on that! =P

Apple has outlasted most of its competitors and will continue to do so because its niche is demanded by customers need for quality, privacy, and security.

I don't want to evolve to be an android hooked to the Google ad cloud through 1000s of API calls by an open market of privacy stealing apps.

Google = newMS = Borg.

Only two words I want to say ^^ "Google rocks"
I guess it's the era of open source.

Google makes most of their money from selling ads on their free and if not open source, open use services like google, gmail and youtube.

By its nature, Linux is much more secure than Windows. Furthermore, when you install an app on Android, have you ever noticed that it asks for your permission to do things? You remain in control. Assuming that the user has basic intelligence (and I must concede that there are those out there that don't), Android is a relatively secure OS.

Even if it is a walled garden, the iPhone one must remember is not perfectly secure. There are ways to get around things. The wall is for control and profit, nothing more.

Remember, we are dealing with corporations that are do not have our best interests at heart. And that includes Apple and Google (important for all those fanboys out there – especially the Apple ones) who seem to ignore fact a lot.

"people are not searching on a mobile device like they do on the desktop.” –Steve Jobs

Does Jobs even use his iPhone?
I search on my mobile at least 20x a day.

I hope the Android devs have fun supporting 100+ different Android devices.

The odds that most Android apps will run on most Android devices, is about 0.

I don't really think that's much of an insult. I don't envision Google as innovation manifested. I see them as a giant corporation pushing for an open web because it results in billions of dollars for them. If all they have to do is sit back, wait, and then release a better, more open version of whatever Apple just released, then so be it. And to be fair, Apple hasn't been innovative in years. I think people forget how long it took them to get the Mac OS right (a decade and a half?). Their initial iPod was a piece of shit with a huge hard drive. Their Shuffle had a habit of dying within 6 months and their customer service refused to admit it was an issue from their side. I got an iRiver Clix with color, video, and a cool UI, while Apple was content with their "crazy" scroll interface. The MacBook admittedly has a track pad to die for, but once again… after that Apple went up on a pedestal and hasn't done ANYTHING to their computers since. Don't even get me started on iMacs. Congratulations on making the iPhone and reinventing smart phones… what have they done since minus taking AWAY functionality over the years?

I'm sorry, I'm on Google's side here.

I have never gone to an all flash site and not been annoyed by something. Whether it's the over-use of flashy transitions, or the focus on presentation over content, or annoying sound effects that blare out of my headphones when I innocently mouse over a button, or the non standard "look at me I'm so creative" navigation.

Followed by Android in smart phones. Soon to be followed by the OS in its entirety once the tablet comes out.

I'd say Google has a slight advantage here, that advantage being information and experience in the online advertising business. It'll be a different approach with mobile, but something tells me they know a bit more than Apple when it comes to this.

The only thing Google's failed at is Buzz, and they hit the ground pretty hard with that one. And yes, they make billions from advertising. And they use that money to give us quality products that are alternatives to Steve Jobs' little cage. Most of us here know that Google isn't doing it for the consumer — by pushing open development and the open web, they make themselves billions richer. I personally think it's amazing that a search engine company has now taken over the internet, grabbed a firm base in the mobile OS market, is about to make a splash in the tablet market with what seems to be a great OS, and is going to provide an easier means for in-browser web gaming with the next version of their browser. Oh yeah, and they're ENTERING OUR TV'S. If that doesn't impress you, I don't know how Apple's "We removed the camera from our iPad, but will sell it to you at a higher price next year" does.

People are annoyed by video, text, and photos? Weird. I like all those things whether it's served up by javascript, html or a native iPad app. Just content to me.

Extremely well said. At least some people are logical.

Vic prefers two dicks in his arse instead of one

it all comes down to greed and market domination

A lot of opinion and bias here – very little fact. Vic Gundotra is full of it. He has really just fallen into a bear trap but he doesn't know it yet.

Don't know much about the iPad so won't bother with that. But Flash I know a lot about as I run a web development company and our customers say ….. WHO CARES?

Our continual research into Flash with our clients and the users of the internet indicates that end users just don't give a damn. Many avoid Flash-heavy sites and those in the know even install apps to disable Flash.

The only people making an issue about Flash are "web designers" who only "develop" in Flash. The reasons for the quotes is these people are not really WEB designers nor do they develop. Our experience with these businesses is they blind clients with bling to flog their Flash-heavy sites for extraordinary prices irregardless of whether this is what the client and the client's customers need or want. Then eventually the client comes to us and we have to throw out so much of the terrible coding and start from scratch and explain to the client how they've been had.

As for Google. Love their search and have used their various services for years. Though we are getting to be very concerned with just how much Google now know about us and our clients through all of their services. Spend a bit of time looking through your web server and you realise just how insidious Google is. Then we hear about this latest Wifi thing with their Streetview cars and we wonders if it was accidentally on purpose.

Lastly I must admit I have an iPhone and must agree with Steve Jobs on one thing. I don't use the iPhone for Google searching. Instead I will go to the AppStore and download an app related to what I'm searching for. There are some excellent apps that mean you don't need to search and one of those includes Googles own very good Google Maps.

At the end of the day I must agree with what quite a few people here have already said. It's all a matter of what works for you and there's no need to ridicule another if he chooses differently. As one person said, I may choose an unleaded car while someone else chooses diesel.

Competition breeds innovation. Its more than evident that people want options, which is something Google is willing to provide. Apple wants to keep everything exclusive though. In any case, if Apple doesn't opt to give in and support Flash, I bet they'll look (or create) better enticements for everyone. Can't wait to see what develops next!

When you see the popularity of browsers plugins like Flashblock, there is definitely lots of people who don't like flash ! 50,445 weekly downloads on ffox !

Probably true, but personally I'd rather google controlling it that apple, since a) Android is open source, and b) Android is on multiple devices

Yeah, I recently switched my iPhone for a HTC Desire, and every single useful app I used on the iPhone has an equivalent on the android marketplace, and I found it alot easier to get all the apps I wanted on the android device then I did on the iPhone.

But it's true, when people think online app download, they think app store, I still hear the android marketplace described as 'like the iPhone app store'
Apple definitely have an advantage in that most people are more familiar with the app store, but I feel that the android market place is just at strong, if not stronger.

Whats the point of launching android 2.2 when people unable to update to 2.1, without loosing their data. Vic is buying time for Google to innovate on an alternatives to "Flash AD"s on HTML5, buy supporting Flash and air platform integrated into the OS.

So, thanks to guys with inferiority complexes like Vic (who doubtless learned to be a petty queen sitting within range of Balmer's spittle), consumers will have to sit through pointless and wasteful melodramas about who has the bigger tech d. Actually, and these guys who have grown fat fail to realize this, that it is the consumer who rules. These companies simply make the latest toys for our amusement. The modern conceit is that they pick the toys we want, that they control the playpen. Anyone old enough saw this movie eons ago in the fifties and sixties with washing machine commercials or Coke/Pepsi ad wars. Pointless blather. Instead, give us your best shot at product development. We will decide what is the new shiny thing. You want me to care which product will define me as a consumer. You want me to identify with the goofy alien logo or the dated apple logo. To be your fanboy bitch. But, I will decide whether I want the conquering "do no evil" world of Google or the deliciously closed world of Apple. Actually, both empires bore the shit out of me. They lack the humility that comes from realizing that I can put my Mac Book Pro and my Android phone down, right on the campfire along with my trusty can of kerosene. Just make good products and save the drama guys. Your products are good, boys, I will give you that. But they ain't crack. Not even close. And frankly, I'm not even sure they offer a marginal social advantage over the funky tickly powder.

Google's not saying you have to use Flash; it's about the choice. They've given you the tools to block Flash 24/7 if you want to. :)

Let me refute you point by point.
a) Wave is considered a successful, widespread failure.
b) What about other companies that gave out font APIs? Oh, everyone's pet peeve, MSFT, also has sent out font APIs.
c) Google Gears? What's that? OH, it works?
d) How many people have even adopted O3D and Native Client? Really?

Google is an advertising company. Anything that allows it to understand consumers better so that it can get into their heads, it will do. Period. Nothing "Don't be Evil" about it.

Desperation.

Point is learning from past mistakes and make it easier with Froyo if you want to update.

The speaker said that his daughter had used the iPad to access the website, and that after reaching what seems to be a game or some other content, it just displayed an empty orange page. He didn't say that you couldn't access Nickelodeon, and the website demoed on FroYo certainly -seemed- to be a game, not a full website.

The point he made was that it -was- found. And not by someone digging through content that they'd have no reason to look for, but buy someone actually trying to -use- the website. It's possible that the website in question isn't even the US one (a quick visit to the .com.au Nickelodeon website shows that an orange splash page is used). If she plays a lot of games on the nickelodeon website, it's possible that she prefers to use the .com.au portal since she has already played most of the games on the .com portal (or just because for her specific search it was the first website returned).

apple is dead

8.7 million people have downloaded Flashblock for Firefox, and Firefox has about 25% of the total web browser use.

If 100% of all Firefox users have Flashblock, then there are 34 Million people that use the internet.
If the number of people that use the internet is 500 Million (a very conservative estimate), then only 14% of people with Firefox use Flashblock.

Sorry, but whilst a lot of people find it a problem (myself included), it's not the view of the vast majority of people using the internet. And that's even amongst people who are savvy enough to download Firefox.

What about youtube ..

A true digital agency will use the right technology for the right job. Try getting some clients in the entertainment or games industry, then come back and comment again. Your insulated view of web development is highly inaccurate and non-reflective of the real world out there.

"It turns out on the internet, people are annoyed by Flash Ads & Splashpages."

Fixed again.

Actually, Apple has outlasted its competitors by infringing on patents, stealing ideas and dumbing down the smartphone to make it easy to use for the pensioners and the fanboys. The fanboys will always buy Apple products no matter what happens, even though the hardware is now old, slow and behind the competition.
Apple= Closed = Dictatorship = Evil = Patent Theft = Slowly dying

We love Google!!!!

Backup programs. There are tons out there, I change the rom on my phone almost daily and never lose my data.

Also, Android AdBlock. Haven't seen an ad on my phone in months.

I, for one, do not want Flash. Throughout this whole pissing match between Apple and Adobe there has been a large user base that does not want Flash on their iDevice, myself included.

I was thinking of Vic and google's "discovery" of the internet yesterday while I was downloading a song from the Apple music store to my iPhone.

This.

The concept people seem to have a hard time grasping is that flash is still used on quite a few sites. I am just as annoyed by sites that are built completely on Flash as the next guy, but flash is still used for video, games and site widgets like photo galleries.

Google is all set to confront Apple. here is a list Vic's jabs at Apple http://buzzintechnology.com/2010/05/google-throws...

So I can install the upcoming iPhone OS4 on a first gen iPhone?

For people saying that google lives upon ads, yes, that's true but ads is what makes free stuff free… i'd love to see ads if someone propose me free service in exchange…

we can say that Apple has been severly hit by google yesterday but that's competition and that is better for the consumer…

one another thing : Flash may be a little crappy but it's one of the most already distributed app on people computers, by allowing it into Android google is making strategic decision but not only… they are saving Adobe asses and giving them the ability to show us how they'll fix their errors, Flash is great technology and HTML5 only does a half of what flash can do, with Adobe trying to save their jobs by proving it can run mobile it's once again good for the customer…

let me say : thank you Apple for kicking Flash allowing them to see theirs mistakes, and thank you Google for letting them fix these problems!

Flash and HTML5 can work together the real deal is to show people when to use it where and why… i do'nt want to see flash disappear, but instead getting better end more open… (Dreamweaver Flash to HTML5 plugin? is'nt that openness?)

As others have said, if Google were really as "open" as they claim, they'd open source their search engine, gmail…

So I get Multitasking on my iPhone 3G?

I think you're right, but — just as pro-wrestling and Jerry Springer draw audiences — so does over-dramatic journalism.

The antidote is probably to promote stories about techbloggers slappin' each other around instead… "and in the other corner, in the purple trunks, Mighty Mike Arrrrringtonnnn! ;-)

jd/adobe

People are annoyed by annoying things. These annoying things can be programmed in Flash, Javascript, DHTML or HTML5.

There is much on the web that uses Flash for good. There is much done in Flash that is poor. I'd like to have the option to view the good.

Advertisements are often the worst offenders. It just so happens that many adverts are done in Flash. Once ad firms transition to HTML5, there will be no easy way to block the advertisements.

Be careful about wishing something gone. You may regret it.

If you mean dead, as in "On just about every cool site out there" I guess you're right. Good work!

Steve improved his health and is ready to fight for change.

I'm sure that would qualify as retarded, not open.

True. Our clients are predominantly e-commerce clients of one industry or the other. We've had entertainment and non-profit grass roots organisations but again they were finding people didn't like their Flash-heavy sites.

You're right in identifying one area where all this talk about HTML 5 still doesn't cut it and that is the gaming industry. And in our case we would simply send a client on to a reputably agency that has the necessary skill set to produce a pure Flash game website.

The real world, we must remember, is what the end user wants. Not what is the current flavour of the month amongst developers.

But it sounds like you're in denial if you think every end user wants Flash and you're still trying to dictate what everyone SHOULD want according to YOU.

WAKE UP!

Apple doesn't lead in sales, they are the leader that other manufacturers follow. Apple comes out with a device, trolls yell "you suck!", then dive on the first clone that comes along.

"Google wants to take that man's mobile, copy it, then kick him in the nuts"

"infringing on patents, stealing ideas and dumbing down the smartphone"

Are you honestly saying that Android owes nothing to the iPhone? That it, and the devices it runs on would, be exactly the same today if the iPhone never existed? Will you make the same claim when Android is developed for tablets? You are seriously deluded.

Yes. That's an example of why Gundotra is into hobnobbing with former talkshow hosts. His job title means nothing. It is just a title. He's a perfect example of the Peter Principle.

I do not want sides. I wanted new technologies
If Google is good in purchasing new technologies instead of inventing them, it is good since consumers get new technologies anyway
But all these stupid ripings are not good. They are not improving technologies of Google, they are not improving technologies of Apple. What are they for? Why is this guy declaring war on apple? Will it help consumers? I do not think
It would be better for him if he would spend his time inventing something new instead of playing a clown.

Google is the biggest supporter of HTML5, not Apple. Just think google will shortly unveil chrome webapp store, and their youtube is in HTML5 beta a long long time back,

Better the devil you know people.

We know about Apple and it's practices. But do you really know about Google's?

Do no evil. Ha! They should rewrite it to "do no evil that can get you caught". Google are out to control the internet in every way they can, not just your computer like Apple.

Be wary of Google.

Yes, there's interesting times ahead for internet developers. It will be a little confusing for the end user for a while but the benefits will be pretty obvious.

It doesn't even come with flash… You have to download it in the marketplace so just don't get it if you don't want it

I'd give it a day until someone make a custom rom that disable flash.

Or an app.
Or perhaps it's in the browser setting page.

We're talking about Google here. They're not forcing anything to the consumers, really.

Haha good metaphor!

But… Windows CE was the first tablets…
…
..
Wait, what is Windows CE? Tablets? There are no tablets before iPads, HERESY!

"Google wants to take that man's mobile, copy it, make it better, open source it, THEN kick him in the nuts"

Fix'd

This.

And if something goes wrong… That's why you have a redundant FOSS project in your spade!
(i.e. Linux-BSD, OO-kOffice, Gnome-KDE, etc)

But… I use flashblock just to block the ads, I enable them when I want to play games/youtubing… )

Linux (especially costum patched kernel like Android have) have FAR BETTER protection than NT (windows) kernel has.

It's like UAC, but FAR BETTER.
And yes, you remain in control.

Don't worry about him.

He's just being a devout follower of JOBSIAN CHURCH and everything.

"On the 6th day, Jobs created Apple."

But short term, those allies will be a major advantage.

And who knows, they may choose to stick around/….

Why should we? Open source is open source, regardless of the philosophy behind it.

Else we won't see Linux patnered with GNU (one is purely technical Open, the other is really philosophical mumbo jumbo Free)

This.

Hey, if you want to do that, please petition Apple to open source the iOS and the Macs too!
(Never going to happen)

True, their products aren't crack. But the net itself can be.

It is easy to be open when it doesn't hurt your pocket ….. android is the latest toy, strangely enough Google is making all the noise about it and MSFT is getting $ from HTC … we are living in a strange world.

In your "point by point" refute, you forgot Android and Chrome.

Google hatters love to say that Android is a copy of the iPhone OS. They are so different! In fact, what they have in common is the telephony hardware, not invented by Apple nor Google.

Jajajajajajajaja… are you suggesting that people wont use an Android phone 'cause it supports Flash?? Wow… last time I checked, haven't seen anyone not using a computer because it has flash installed.

Dude, everybody copies ideas in this world. How much do you think is really new on the iPhone? I'm 100% sure Apple didn't invent the telephony hardware, nor the low level details of the OS (process and memory management, file system handing). They didn't invent concepts like a graphic UI and stuff like that. They have a very good concept, but they have copied A LOT from others too. Is it OK that Apple copies others good ideas but not OK if Google copies? Android is so different that iPhone OS!.

I don't agree with you. I think flash had problems. BUT he used that to push his agenda. Having flash working on the iPhone/iPad means developers not using iPhone propietary APIs. He put Adobe as the guilty and he keeps controlling his platform. Google on the other hand decided to work with Adobe and as a result, Flash is probably ready for the mobile world, and everybody including Android is winning (well, except Steve)

Well, except for the Nexus and maybe the G1, no other phone has an OS controlled entirely by Google. HTC uses Google Android OS, modifies it and put it in their phones. Motorola even has replaced Google services entirely from some models. That is a model promoted by Google, that's why Android is licensed with the Apache license.

Google is one of the worst company ever they are just behind their ads earning and they don't give a damn to any other thing. First they create a mail service to get to know people better, then they create browser to get more deeper and now operating systems to get deeper in our asses…its all just $$$s….they wanna spy us in a way that nobody catches them..all of their apps are just to invade our lives..otherwise what is compelling them to get into browser world….the OS world(Both Desktop and Mobiles)…they are not wasting their developers on just open source free stuff….that is their browser and OS are named as Chromium when coded as open source and are just converted into same closed source stuff by naming them chrome..which only Google knows…just to get people in a illusion that they know all the code as it is open source and it is not gonna harm us…If they wanted to support open source which they already do to just get some sympathy…Devil poses as Saint…They could have suggested Mozilla..to changes that may be good for a browser..what is the deal for a new browser where Mozilla already doing good and it enjoys money from Google…its all devil getting a high…their tag line "Do Know Evil"…is just opposite to what they do…….People say Microsoft is bad..i too used to believe that but now no more…they invest money on developers, researches etc..so they charge us..what is wrong with it…at least we know that they are not creating a secret database of all the Netizens of world….who knows what Google can do with that data..and by time…it is gonna have all the information about us…even more than our loved ones know about us….

Boycott Google…or its gonna be too late………

Beware People U don't even know what Google can do with all information it collects every time U get online and U can't even know…This devil is a Giant Monster…………

I love flash. It re-invented the internet. Stop living in the past.

And that exactly is the problem. Google just knows too much about every person & The cloud will take away the privacy completly. Just like how Apple control their hardware google is trying to control the Internet, they are well positioned to do so with the amount of data they have.

Neither do I, 90% of the time, but I’d like to have the *choice*

I think you are in the .001% of world's population who can spell "Nick*don" correctly. You must have been a spelling bee champ.

Without Apple's Webkit browser engine used in Google's Chrome browser (built on open source KTHML, greatly rewritten, and extended by Apple to be 'useable and modern') – there's NO WAY GOOGLE COULD SUPPORT HTML5 in their webapp store or even in their browser.

So stop your inaccurate nonsense about Google being the biggest supporter of HTML5.

If Google were the biggest supporter of HTML5, they wouldn't support Flash in Android.

Period.

I think openmyasdroid is making the convoluted but correct point:

if Google is so pro HTML5 it shouldn't be try to lay a slap down on Apple for not supporting an open web when Google are using Apple's Webkit (built on an open KHTML) to power Chrome browser.

And without the use of Webkit – Google couldn't support HTML5 in their web browser – because they wouldn't have a browser engine to have a browser.

It's great that Apple did use, fix, and extend KTHML and share with others like competitors like Google and not write their own browser engine like MS. And it's even better that Google and others are using Webkit to standardize the engine. This is the only way to get HTML5 adoption across 'the board'.

But I agree with openmyasdroid – it's rude and deceitful of Google to claim Apple is slow/late to support HTML5, considering they use Apple's Webkit to render it in a browser!

Sounds (reads) like commonsense logic. I hope that was clear than openmyasdroid version.

Key parts of the iPh OS and OS X have been open source from the beginning of each:
http://developer.apple.com/opensource/index.html http://www.opensource.apple.com/

It's how Apple rolls.
They use open source, improve it, and release it back to the community.

But no – they are unlikely to ever open the hardware spec's for iPh's, Macs, etc.
Just as it's unlikely that Google will ever open source its server software code – unless it get so many servers it feels it can't be beat.

This is where many are fooled by Google's sense of open. Android isn't openly developed, but done so internally by Google. Try to roll your own Android distro with Google apps integrated and they'll legally stop you from doing this, and you won't be able to use the Android name.

And the same goes for a lot of what Google claims to be open. They just want cheap fanboys to test their stuff for free, OEMs to add better UIs, and spam the market with stuff that is 'free' to steal your identity and browsing/phone/device user behavior, while slapping the 'open' label on it.

Without Apple – Google wouldn't have Webkit to use as their browser engine in Chrome.

"The only reason it seemed like Apple was taking over was because their product was the best."

Change product to marketing, and Ill agree completly. The product IPhone is a dubious piece of hardware, fitted with a simplistic OS but with an outstanding UX. The marketing on the other hand, has been unsurpassed.

This is good. Competition is generally behind most waves of innovations. Google and Apple will try to outdo each other, and that will mean an increased functionality for the consumers. I look forward to this.