NSFW: Jimmy Wales Wants Me Dead (The Neutrality Of This Article Is Disputed)
Paul Carr
Mar 21, 2010

Some weeks, writing this column is easy. All it takes is for an influential person – a politician, a business person, perhaps even a fellow columnist – to say something dumb and I get to spend a thousand words or so explaining precisely why they’re wrong. The “why x is wrong about y” construction is the columnist’s best friend: it’s as old as the hills and even easier to build a house on.

Some weeks though, it’s even easier than that. Someone will say something so breathtakingly wrong – so tracheotomy-cravingly moronic – that I don’t need to explain anything. Simply quoting their words back at them is sufficient to make the point.

Step forward, Jimmy Wales.

Speaking this week at the Guardian’s Guardian Changing Media Summit, Wales – the founder of Wikipedia – uttered the following statement when asked about the future of newspapers…

“I don’t see the added value [of opinion columnists] and question whether a newspaper should be paying large sums of money for them anymore… The best of the political bloggers are easily the equal of the opinion columnists at the New York Times.”

Those words could stand alone as a monument to Wales’ wrongness – a warning for future generations on why we must never heed the advice of a man who calls himself ‘Jimbo’. But the very fact that Wales was invited to opine about the future of news at a major conference despite having no identifiable qualifications to do so compels me to elaborate. If people take his opinion on newspapers seriously enough to ask him to speak on the subject then there’s a terrifying possibility that they’ll take him seriously enough to act on his advice.

And who could blame them? Newspaper owners are terrified – destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked – and desperately seeking any advice on how to cauterize their bottom line. The cause of their madness is, of course, the Internet and so it’s logical – after a fashion – that they should turn to Wales for answers. After all, he’s The Man From The Internet: surely he has all the answers?

Yeeeeah. Not so much.

For the benefit of those poor befuddled newspapermen, let’s take a few minutes – and a thousand words or so – to break down all the reasons why you shouldn’t listen to Jimmy Wales when he tells you how to run a newspaper.

For a start, let’s consider what Wales actually does for a living. Or rather what he doesn’t do. He doesn’t own, operate or edit a newspaper. He doesn’t employ any journalists, has never sold an advertisement and he doesn’t have a single customer who pays to read the content he relies on volunteers to produce. For those reasons, his lack of understanding of the “added value” that high profile personalities bring to newspapers is understandable – forgivable even. Or at least it would be were it not for the fact that Wikipedia uses Wales’ own high profile personality to encourage its users to donate money in order to ensure its survival.

“A message from Jimmy Wales” reads the banner at the top of Wikipedia entries during the site’s regular donation drives. These banners link to a personal appeal for support, written by Jimbo and complete with an above-the-fold photo of his face. Jimmy Wales is the first encyclopedia editor since Alain T. Britannica to build a cult of personality around the gig. Why? Because he knows that personality creates familiarity, which in turn creates loyalty, which in turn creates value. Except, apparently, when it comes to newspapers.

Which takes us to the real nub of Jimmy Wales’ wrongness. No one would argue that the newspaper industry – in print form – is screwed. Speaking at the same Guardian conference, media commentator and Murdoch fanboy Michael Wolff summed the situation up nicely when he said “Every big-city newspaper in the U.S. is either in bankruptcy or will be in bankruptcy in the foreseeable future – that’s 12 months. The newspaper industry in the U.S. is over”.

The future of news is online, but that future brings with it the total commoditisation of facts and the death of straight reporting as a way to drive reader loyalty. Newspapers aren’t just competing with other newspapers, but also with Twitter and Facebook and blogs and thousands of other channels through which facts can be disseminated. If one paper puts its news behind a pay wall, the chances are that same news will be available elsewhere for free. Even with high quality investigative reporting, if the story is big enough then someone will simply rewrite it – perfectly legally – and post it on a blog, where it will then be reblogged and retweeted and aggregated. (The aggregators themselves encourage this: Gabe Rivera told me recently that the best way for a blogger to get content on Techmeme is to paraphrase something that previously appeared behind a pay-wall).

The battle to force people to pay for general news, then, is lost. Likewise, thanks to micro-aggregators like Techmeme and macro-aggregators like Google News, the fight to maintain reader loyalty through news reporting is finished too. Sure, some people may still cling to the BBC or the New York Times out of habit, but the trend towards decentralisation – with readers choosing their news source on a story-by-story basis – is inexorable.

There remains, however, one reason to remain loyal to a single newspaper – or at least to visit that newspaper’s online edition every day. And that’s for its editorial voice: the unique tone with which a publication interprets the basic facts of a news story and helps us form an opinion on it. Which, of course, is where columnists come in.

Columnists – and other opinion-driven journalists – are the heart and soul of a news organisation: they’re what makes us tune in to Fox News (Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly) or MSNBC (Keith Olbermann). They’re why we buy the Wall Street Journal (Peggy Noonan) or The New York Times (Maureen Dowd). Newspapers know this of course, which is why when Murdoch desperately (and misguidedly) wanted to protect hard-copy sales of his flagship UK tabloid, The Sun, he removed his big name columnists from the web and confined them to print.

Wales may claim that the best political bloggers are better than their mainstream rivals but he’s wrong about that too. For a start, professional columnists carry with them the weight of their entire publication. Maureen Dowd’s opinion pieces are so powerful because they are packed with insight and fact, much of which stems from the access she enjoys as an internationally recognised columnist. The vast majority of independent political bloggers can only dream of that kind of access and are instead forced to rely on second-hand reporting for the basis of their writing. But even if a political blogger does manage to deliver the goods, it’s only a matter of time before they’re snapped up by the mainstream media. I don’t care what crap they spout while they’re struggling to make it, every political blogger in the world would kill their own puppy to write for a nationally – or internationally – recognised publication. The first thing Nate Silver did when FiveThirtyEight went stellar? Take a gig at the New Republic.

This symbiosis – columnistists clamouring to write for newspapers, and newspapers needing great columnists to define their voice – is where the real key to the survival of newspapers lies. Rival papers, and bloggers and Twitterers may summarise and rewrite your news scoops, depriving you of readers, but they can’t do the same with your columnists. Personality is simply not reproducible – there’s only one Maureen Dowd and there will only ever be one Glenn Beck (inshallah) so if readers want to hear what they have to say, they have to go to the source. Moreover, while news ages rapidly, opinion doesn’t. A story published online by the New York Times is dated the moment it appears and people begin tweeting out the key facts, but a well-crafted opinion column has an infinite shelf life.

For all of these reasons, only the most imbecilicly terrified newspaper editor would heed Jimmy Wales’ advice and fire their most valuable assets. For all the others, there’s actually a compelling argument to do precisely the opposite. It’s comment and opinion, not news, that really adds value to newspapers in the Internet age – and as such the really smart editors will get rid of all their costly reporters and use the money instead to fill their pages with nothing but highly paid opinion columnists. Only then can newspapers be assured of their survival.

I know it sounds scary, newspaper owners, but you’ll just have to trust me on this one. After all, I’m The Man From The Internet and I have all the answers.

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  • http://www.laptopmemo.com Stefan Etienne

    Nice ending you put in there Paul. :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=5301742 Arthur Sabintsev

    I’m with Wales on this. There is no need for newspapers or pundits really. I haven’t watched TV news in over a year, and haven’t picked up a newspaper (unless it was thrown at me in the metro) in two years. I care not for some journalist’s opinion, just for the hardcore results or evidence, and from there I’ll come to my own conclusion.

    I follow all the major news organizations on RSS or Twitter, but I do not read their Op-Eds. Just want to know what’s going on in the world (hence I read the same piece from multiple organizations).

    The days of paper media are gone.

  • Jacob

    How is this NSFW? Stop using that tag to drive traffic, dammit!

    Other than that, Paul, I appreciate your point, but I think your vitriol against Wales is misdirected. He’s neccesarily interested in the cause of neutrality and non-opinionated writing- he spends all his days trying to fend off academics attempting to dismantle his not-for-profit project on the basis of supposed systemic bias.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=612763905 David A Sch

    Good article!

    And I guess it’s true, I come to TC not for the news, but rather for all the commenting that goes around it.

    Keep it up TC!

  • John Barraco

    Marc Andreesen “doesn’t own, operate or edit a newspaper.” Should we ignore his opinion on newspapers too?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=502752253 Jimmy Wales

    One point you may wish to consider, Paul. If you have a job that thousands of people could do just as well as you can, and they would, in your colorful phrase, “kill their own puppy” to do it – you may wish to rethink your view on the economics here.

    The New York Times tested your theory – that people find value in the opinion columnists – TimesSelect. We all know how that ended.

  • nob lin

    Hello Paul…i get the sense that you feel threatened?

  • Igor

    It’s the name of the column you dumb fucking shit. How many times does this have to be mentioned for you dumbassees to finally understand that?

  • nob lin

    I get the sense Paul feels a little bit threatened!!!…..

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1723011764 Stephen Shepherd

    While I’m still unsure why you’re a better source than Jimbo, I like the overall idea of the article. Do opinions have their place and time? Yes. Should OPINIONS replace FACTS as you seem to suggest? No. I don’t want one skewed view or another I want the hard numbers and verifiable information. I can mkae my own opinions and, personally, would die a little bit inside if NYT or LAT became all opinion and no fact. Is the idea that opinion columnists be fired absurd? Yes. Is the idea that they should be the only writers for a paper equally absurd? Yes.

  • mark

    “There remains, however, one reason to remain loyal to a single newspaper – or at least to visit that newspaper’s online edition every day. And that’s for its editorial voice: the unique tone with which a publication interprets the basic facts of a news story and helps us form an opinion on it.”

    I somewhat disagree with both Jim and Paul.

    Wales overlooks the real value of editorials, which Paul succinctly illustrates. However, Paul, one thing I think you’ve overlooked is investigative journalism.

    I think burgeoning crowd-sourced local news method is going to grow, because it presents a new (and likely cheaper) model for investigative journalism. Facts are facts, but we want the dirty details uncovered. IMHO, newspapers can get a lot of traction by harvesting these emergent local news devices.

    Personally, I’d pass on a tone if I could get a assortment of insightful and diligent investigations. In fact, I’d most like a number of in-depth investigations presented with dueling editorials.

  • Dasein

    Agree with nearly everything Paul has written, except for the inevtability of aggregation as a primary news source–that’s only true for a small percentage who live on a diet of tweets, pokes, and breathless friend feeds. Most Internet users don’t.

    What is unfortunate is that Jimmy Wales gets so much coverage about his non-relevant opinions. It’s like when Tom Clancy, a novelist, started being quoted as a military strategist or expert on global politics. Create yourself as a brand and people will listen to you like you’re an oracle.

  • Dasein

    Yes, if he’s claiming to know simeting as an expert. If it’s just a personal opinion, who really cares what he thinks about newspapers?

  • Adam Miskiewicz

    Don’t know why I’m answering this, because it’s answered every week:

    NSFW IS THE NAME OF THE COLUMN!

  • John

    Every week someone has to ask.

    IT’S THE NAME OF THE COLUMN.

    Expect to see it on Sundays. If an article on TC is really NSFW, it is appended with “(NSFW)” at the end of the title, sans quotes.

  • ArtInvent

    Wales has a point, in that most opinions being READ are now those of influential bloggers and blog sites. But the lines are blurring. When do we get to the point that all news is basically found on blogs, and there is a heirarchy of blogs depending on ‘circulation’ or the new term for that, page views. Popular blog sites are becoming much like newspaper sites, while newspapers are rapidly becoming web services, in which case they are really just morphing into formal and elaborate blogs. Entire sections of these newspapers (such as the LA Times Tech page) are being replaced online by a team blog format. So the best bloggers actually get paid more. I don’t really see a big difference between a popular blogger and a columnist.

    Oh and by the way, the photo of Jimmy wales is distorted. Looks like it’s been stretched to fit into a square box. Why? Many of the photos accompanying stories on Techcrunch are similarly distorted and stretched It’s wrong and it makes your site look amateurish. You wouldn’t see that in a newspaper. :)

  • dubya

    Glenn beck would agree with this

  • http://popularculturegaming.com jccalhoun

    I’ve never bought a newspaper for a columnist. I hardly ever buy newspapers anyway. Perhaps that’s the problem. Maybe the people who do buy newspapers do buy them for the columnists but that isn’t appealing to the vast numbers of people who don’t buy newspapers.

  • Brian D

    So… Wales was not talking about paychecks ?

    Seems he was.

    As the quote is published here in this post, I can’t see anything wrong with it.

  • mx123

    I see an aggregation service like Techmeme as keyword driven and a quality news service like Techcrunch as commentator based. If I know specifically what topic I want to read i head for Techmeme or Google and use keywords. But if I want my daily read it’s Techcrunch. I rely on TC to feed me news they perceive as important because I developed a strong trust in them.

  • Anonymous

    You’re not the only one.

  • http://gokidance.exblog.jp/ William Taylor

    But it wouldn’t be the same if someone didn’t ask, so thanks for asking.

  • George Washington

    One thing is true for both mediums:

    The people whose opinion would actually be worth anything are the least likely to express it.

    This was always so in print and is turning out to be more so in bytes.

  • Mike Leach

    Hmmmmm….. not with you on this one.

    In fact, he’s indirectly promoting what you do for a living.

  • http://justinherrick.com justin

    Lol, entertaining as always.

  • Confused

    Hang on how on earth is this NSFW????

  • Confused

    Really? Your shitting me right? No one would write a column calle NSFW thats not NSFW

  • Confused

    you are right about the images. just look at the last 10 or so posts, most of the images are distroted

  • Shailesh Banta

    Needless to say Paul you either already have a column in a major newspaper or you’re gunning for one. I for one don’t see anything wrong in Wales’ opinion.

    The days when people followed a newspaper for a particular columnist are either gone or fading. Besides, News broadcasters like BBC & CNN offer all their content for free online – I’d see much more interest in people wanting to follow TV News personalities and their op. And Free.

  • Mike Claiborne

    I think this post is fairly silly. While I disagree with Wales, I think it is a legitimate point to argue, certainly not “breathtakingly wrong – so tracheotomy-cravingly moronic.” Carr’s logic is broken in several areas. For example, though Wikipedia doesn’t make any money selling ads, that is not a reflection of Wales’ inability to create valuable content & drive traffic, it’s a reflection of principled stance he has taken.

  • markh

    I agree with Jimmy Wales. Newspaper op-ed writers aren’t as important or influential as they used to be. They no longer warrant higher than average salaries.

    Don’t know why you got your panties in a bunch over this one. Equating a TV personality like Glenn Beck to a newspaper personality like Maureen Dowd is completely apples and oranges. Maureen adds value to NYT, but incidental value. I would never buy a newspaper simply because of one columnist and bet the majority (over 90%) of readers feel the same.

  • kebal

    Sorry, I think Wales got this one right.

  • http://hauntingthunder.wordpress.com/ Neuromancer

    @Jimmy have you come across this thing called politics (with a little p) a columnist in the gruniad, times or NYT has far more influence where it really counts. Do you have any idea how powerful and the lobbying pull that Murdoch and the Barclays bros have. Media moguls don’t buy big newspapers for altruistic motives.

    The fact that the days of city newspapers are numbered yeah so what? the fact that USA should have consolidated into national papers (you know like the rest of the world did last century) is neither here nor there.

    A lot of people in the web2.0 industry shouldn’t be let out side with out minders I sometimes think, look at the howlers coming out of Google is Matt Cutts the only person in google who knows anything about politics.

    I think what we have hear in is an example of Unconscious Incompetence

  • mark

    Jimmy, I’m curious: for a newspaper, do you see anything worth keeping ‘in-house’ in terms of content creation?

    I’m wondering if this is the bigger issue here.

  • http://huzaifazoom.wordpress.com Huzaifa Zoomkawala

    I trust opinion columns/editorials in making my intake of the daily news barrage slightly more palatable. But nothing like bringing in some good old facts to weigh in on an argument. In this case for instance, quoting (or conducting) a survey showing a breakdown of reader/viewer preference for opinions versus plain old news would have been more effective than trashing Jimmy Wales’ point of view.

  • stillerwinter

    Yes, I agree. I think its now near to impossible to force paid content for the big newspapers. Everybody is used to it that news are free. All the big players got in the net for free (many years ago), to test the waters. They missed it to get paid for their content and now its to late.

  • http://www.paulcarr.com Paul Carr

    Thanks for the comment, Jimmy.

    I guess whether my economics are wrong depends on whether you’re right about there being thousands of people who could do what I do just as well as I do. If that’s true then why am I well paid for my work when at least some of those thousands would probably be willing to work for free just to get their words on TechCrunch? Am I just lucky? Is Arrington in the middle of some Brewster’s Millions-style quest to get rid of his millions? Or are you wrong?

    Taking opinion columnists as a whole, my argument is that the highly paid ones who write for newspapers are highly paid because they are the best at what they do. Or at least that no one else could do what they do in the way that they do it. That includes political bloggers – if they’re really better than Maureen Dowd or Glenn Beck then they’d be hired by the New York Times or Fox News.

    If the value they add to their outlet wasn’t greater than the salary they receive then they’d be fired – that’s basic economics. Pointing to TimesSelect just shows that people won’t pay directly for comment, not that it doesn’t have any overall value. There’s almost nothing in newspapers that readers will pay for directly online (although back in the UK I used to buy the print edition of the Guardian at the weekend just for Charlie Brooker’s column) – the question is whether that content brings enough value to advertisers so as to justify the high salary.

    I’m pretty sure most people would balk at paying a subscription fee to access Wikipedia – but does that mean its content doesn’t have value. Are there thousands of sites doing what it does?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=500065899 Michael Arrington

    Still reading this a second time but I’b pretty sure I disagree with most of your argument Paul. Some of these old school columnists make big, big dollars, and an awful lot of them have already been let go. Sure they bring a ton of value, but when there is suddenly a minor league system of bloggers competing with them, they don’t look quite so special. Maybe the market will eventually bear a couple of hundred thousand dollars a year for someone really good. But a million dollars? Dunno.

  • Adrian

    Hi Paul,

    Didn’t you get fired for having an opinion at a national newspaper…. now that’s ironic!

    Great read again :)

  • stillerwinter

    One point he misses is that its very possible for high key columnissts to go away from their newspapaer and start bloging (its not impossible to live from this). So I think newspaper are in a big mess (their own guilt).

  • http://www.paulcarr.com/jimmy-wales-wants-me-dead-the-neutrality-of-this-article-is-disputed/ Jimmy Wales Wants Me Dead (The Neutrality Of This Article Is Disputed) – Paul Carr: Bringing Nothing To The Party

    [...] Read on at TechCrunch… Related ReadingHalf life"7169 words. I’ve gone through madness and out the other side. The Second Life grid is pretty much fucked today (as it was yesterday) with place search broken, ridiculous lag times and constant forced logouts. Seriously, Linden, if this is…"Who cares what old man Murdoch thinks is the future of news online?"I really don’t understand all this fuss about Rupert Murdoch. So, he’s announced that his newspapers will soon start to charge for online content having failed dramatically to make them pay their way through advertising. So, he claims that if…"Jumping the snark"I recorded a piece for BBC Radio 4 about online snark, which was broadcast today. It’s available online here for the next two weeks; I’m at 21mins:30 but the whole programme is worth listening to. Just in case a) you…" [...]

  • Elliot

    This is a brilliant article. The ideas it expresses may be (and should be) ripped off by countless others, but I don’t think that these ideas can be expressed any better, any more succinctly and elegantly than you’ve expressed them here Paul.

    As if driving home your point, as much as I like the clarity you bring to this much discussed and much misunderstood topic, the thing I like best about this article isn’t the soundness of your logic, but the style on display in this cute little snarky comment: “there will only ever be one Glenn Beck (inshallah).” It’s this that got me clicking on your name and wondering “who is this guy, and what other stuff has he written?” Tech Crunch would do well to heed your advice and to place a picture of you above the fold of this page, Paul Carr.

    Looking forward beyond the immediate future, I would say that decentralization and specialization is going to manifest it’s self in more than just readers choosing their news source on a story-by-story basis, it’s going to also manifest in readers forming more ‘personal’ connections with ‘columnists.’ These sorts of ‘personal connections’ don’t scale as well as the Orwellian hysteria of fame and fortune which, ironically, has served as the bedrock for skyscraper institutions such as the New York Times — and why should they. Can it ever be sane, or safe, for a single person to have a loyal following of tens of millions of people? Yes, the future portends many more columnists, each with a small following, and many fewer ‘journalists.’ The journalist of the future will be supported by these columnists, and the journalist of the future will have to report on more than just bland facts that any of these columnists can dig up… the journalist of the future will have to dig up truly original material, and sell it to the columnists, like so many gaga images of Jackson in the ambulance.

  • http://luisrei.com/2010/03/21/it%e2%80%99s-comment-and-opinion-not-news-that-really-adds-value-to-newspapers-but-not-just-that/ LuisRei.com » Blog Archive » It’s comment and opinion, not news, that really adds value to newspapers – but not just that

    [...] March 21st, 2010 | Author: lrei | Filed under: Misc | Tags: ads, News | No Comments » NSFW: Jimmy Wales Wants Me Dead (The Neutrality Of This Article Is Disputed): “The battle to force people to pay for general news, then, is lost. Likewise, thanks to [...]

  • Love the Irony

    “But the very fact that Wales was invited to opine about the future of news at a major conference despite having no identifiable qualifications to do so compels me to elaborate.”

    I find it terribly ironic that Mr Carr chooses to question Mr Wales qualifications. The very columnists that Mr Carr is defending (and worse yet newspaper editorial boards) routinely publish columns and editorials on complex scientific, economic and other issues that they rarely have the scientific or economic education to properly understand and evaluate.

  • Joss

    This is an awesome piece of writing buddy.

    I too am sick of Jimmy Wales’s smugness :O

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1061022770 elliot

    Consider that there are countless thousands if not more people who would have been just as qualified if not more so than Hitler to wreak madness and destruction. The dynamics of the system was simply that by definition, there could only be one Hitler, and at the end of the day, of all the qualified candidates, the person who gets the job gets it based on dumb luck… If candidate X and Y are both equally qualified, but candidate X happens to beat out candidate Y for the job of editor of the high school paper based on a coin toss, then the law of increasing returns kicks in and pretty soon candidate X might parlay that high school paper editor gig into increasingly powerful resume fodder, while candidate Y might spiral into a life of poverty, all on the basis of that one coin toss. It’s the butterfly theory, and it’s been proven mathematically to be real.

    The point is that the rules of the game are changing. The dynamics of the system are changing. Where before there were only a few job openings for qualified columnists, and each columnist had hundreds of thousands or even millions of followers, we’re slipping now into a future where there will be far more columnists, each with quite a few less followers. This change is coming about because the dynamics of how information flows through society are fundamentally changing…

  • Isaac

    The why are either of you reading this opinion column?

  • Michael

    Worst name ever. I never read the comments until now. Always wondered why it was NSFW but not really NSFW.

    Don’t make me think!!!

    http://www.traderbots.com/

  • Isaac

    It’s a reference to the fact that he failed at being an entrepreneur (see his excellent book), and continually gets fired, so *he* is Not Safe For Work.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=14207682 Jesse Hicks

    “Maureen Dowd’s opinion pieces are so powerful because they are packed with insight and fact, much of which stems from the access she enjoys as an internationally recognised columnist. The vast majority of independent political bloggers can only dream of that kind of access and are instead forced to rely on second-hand reporting for the basis of their writing.”

    While it’s true that the clout of writing for the New York Times virtually guarantees returned phone calls from high-placed sources, I think you could have picked a better example than Maureen Dowd of a columnist who uses that clout to do first-hand, in-depth reporting.

  • sylla

    @sabint

    Hopefully, you’re not referring to this?

    A new light:

    News example:

    March 22, 2010: One of TC’s writer wrote a column about Jimmy Wales

    Another News example:

    Today, TC ditches ‘jimbo’ on his utterly-idiotic speech about running your own newspaper mill.

    Me? I prefer the latter — the news with some compelling ‘comment’ running down the sentences, never fails to spur some thoughts on the reader’s mind.

    What you’re saying is just an objective experience, basing from your experience only.

  • http://librarianchat.com/forum/ librarianchat

    But is he wrong?

  • Momar Shackleford

    How this article not safe for work? Is it the reason it published on Sunday because no body working?

  • Sara Salem

    Newsweek (which is a magazine) has cut a lot on the news stuff and is now concentrating on opinion writings and on writing that try to interpret what its readers are reading in news (somewhere else).

    There is also this new startup called uFollow.com which enables users to follow the columnists in newspapers and magazines but does not track anything else in these newspapers.

  • adam

    I agree with Wales, newspapers are no place for opinion, this is why their bottom line is subterranean as of late. People do not want opinions in their news, they want the facts and all of them, not just what the author feels is relevant. I have a brain and can draw my own conclusions. If I wanted someones opinion on something I would read their blog or go to the local pub, it’s full of opinions as good, bad, and indifferent as most journalist of today. What happened to fact based journalism? Today it seems that journalists don’t feel as though facts are important anymore, so, I don’t feel their columns are relevant anymore! Journalism use to be a respected profession, well, not anymore! Too many journalist lie or fill their reporting with more opinion than facts and to me that is not worth wasting my time when what I am looking for is the facts.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=707637618 Erhan Altay

    “…and there will only ever be one Glenn Beck (inshallah)”

    I lol’d.

  • http://www.mattdemers.com Matt Demers

    See, the problem with this is that while newspapers can dig and find the -good- details, all it takes it one tweet summarizing it, or a blog post paraphrasing it, and that’s traffic lost from the newspaper.

  • Jake

    I don’t know if the NYT would replace Dowd with a more talented columnist at this point. Clearly there are aspects besides talent that would go into that equation. The NYT has invested a lot into the brand of Dowd and would likely ride out that investment. Dowd, like many others in similar positions, probably had the three Ts of talent, tenacity, and timing work out in her favor. The fourth T is already kicking in: Tired. Dowd’s work has become tired and probably Dowd’s fan base is becoming tired.

    I think a real test to the editorial opinion columnist question will come from the NYT: will they invest in creating a new generation of opinion columnists or is the current batch the end of the line for them

  • http://www.jonathanmacdonald.com jMac

    I think newspapers and their paid for staff have a purpose – and for sure, some of the inaccurate and unseemly blogging we see is commoditizing what can be a rich vein of opinion – but actually, I can’t see anything wrong in what Jimbo said.

  • http://www.paulcarr.com Paul Carr

    She was just the first Pulitzer Prize winner that I thought of.

  • http://www.brian23.com Brian

    “newspapers needing great columnists to define their voice”

    These are few and far between, and most of them don’t use the great resources at their disposal as you insinuate.

    Truly great columnists have value – original voices who create insights and help form opinions.

    Average columnists who just regurgitate what they read elsewhere or watch on CNN are a waste of resources, and those resources could be put toward doing original journalism and actual reporting.

    In a time when budgets are getting cut and revenue is shrinking, this would be of far greater value to the news org than a crap columnist.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=14207682 Jesse Hicks

    Not a problem, but she won the Pulitzer for distinguished commentary for a series of columns about the Lewinsky affair. She’s certainly not the only person whose Times column sometimes feels phoned in, with more flash than substance, but you’d probably strengthen your argument by choosing an opinion columnist who does actual first-hand reporting — of the substantive kind rather than (a la Thomas Friedman) talking to friends and cabbies.

    There’s certainly a debate to be had here about what “opinion columnist” really means. I’d think to more clearly distinguish between themselves and the “independent political bloggers … forced to rely on second-hand reporting for the basis of their writing,” mainstream columnists really ought to prove their worth via original reportage. That seems a finite resource, while the supply of “acerbic attitude” appears inexhaustible.

  • Momar Jahihti

    You be one of the few people in here who got the “your/you’re” confusion correct.

    Or was it 50/50 luck?

  • http://www.trhonline.com/ Trae Dorn

    Because the implication is that Paul Carr himself is not safe for work.

    God… will the trolling never stop?

  • http://www.trhonline.com/ Trae Dorn

    Since he has a job at a website, I don’t think he is.

  • jack parsons

    Based on your total destruction of the English language in one single post, please refrain from commenting on anything involving words, sentences or really anything more complicated than a photograph with lots of lens flare.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=566869011 Shane Orr

    great read. this is why I keep coming back to TC, too – for the commentary. funny, thing is that when i first read Jimbo’s quote i didn’t realize how wrong he was. I myself continue to pick up the NYT to read Maureen Dowd and followed Nate Silver to NR.

  • http://2above.com grant

    I know nothing about newspaper industry. Based on your rational which is a good one, I am curious what kind of “access” that Maureen Dowd has that relies on the newspaper rather than her personal level? If she has access simply because of personal influence and access, why could not she branch out to become an independent blogger like Michael Arrington did with Techcrunch? Paul Carr, don’t be too dramatic or funny, Jim Whales has a point.

  • bernie lomax

    Yes, Paul’s an idiot.

  • Steve

    I have read through the article and all the comments and feel that Mark hit the nail on the head. Investigative journalism not celebrity opinion writing is the source of our trust in the brand of any newspaper (i.e. publishers online and offline of news). It’s not the tone but the shared values that the editorial captures and transforms into loyal readers. Needless to say, many newspapers lost this popular role long before the web. In its stead, classified advertising was encouraged as the answer to this loss of traditional media’s role as the fourth estate. While Craiglist and other online services have destroyed the classified revenue stream, newspapers are now having to face the problem they have avoided for decades. Namely, what is the added value created by news publishing?
    Newspapers have steadily eroded the role of the investigative reporter. In lieu of hard facts and persistent digging, the newsdesks have more and more promoted hacks to regurgitate copy from the wires alongside various efforts to paper over the dereliction of fact-finding reporting (these vapid “strategies” included a McFlurry of campaigning journalism, lifestyle features and the opinion pages). The problem is that Techmeme and Google now perform this role better than the newspaper industry.
    I personally think that news publishing is an activity looking for a new online solution. There will always be a need for news, and it is hoped that there will be a solution that re-captures the spirit of investigation and expertise. Techcrunch is trusted because the editorial bias promotes a niche filter of expert tech writers to mediate. This works well in niche reportage. It is more difficult in general news and current affairs.
    This is where I think @anywhere has passed under the radar. As a news junkie, I use only Google Reader and Twitter. I think @anywhere may provide the mechanism to keep eyeballs on the pages of the originating news publisher, fusing the power of social commenting and distribution. More importantly, I think it promises to protect news publishers and blogs. Maybe it won’t be @anywhere that encourages publishers to create newsworthy stories (including opinion and features), and most importantly breaking news and expert analysis. News desks should concentrate on reinvigorating good journailstic copy for when @anywhere or something else work out how to recreate news as value-added content.

  • mike

    I’m not surprised that Jimbo made some silly remarks

  • http://www.5pm.co.uk Ronnie Somerville

    At least 50% of the value of this post , to me, has been in the comments.

    Does this automatically devalue a “big name columnist’s” value by 50%?

  • http://hackingthevalley.com Douglas Putnam

    Paul,

    From the tenor the comments to this post, it looks like 80% of your readers, including Jimmy Wales, are satisfied with the regurgitations and “curations” that pass for news these days. They can’t distinguish between the inspiration and the imitation, between Maureen Dowd and the blogger who rehashes a Maureen Dowd column, between Elvis and the Elvis impersonator. These guys are unwittingly on a mission to achieve intellectual entropy; they can’t be stopped. Let them stumble off into the woods.

    Newspapers are forced to shape shift and adapt to some new business model. In the process, the talent (columnists) will become even more valuable and salable. The celebrity columnists and performers you mentioned, will see their stock rise because the truth is, we know these people as personalities, and they can’t be replaced by banal Facebook back fence gossip.

    You creative types will do fine. Just don’t squander your time and talent trying to convert Yahoos to Houyhnhnms.

  • http://www.ihsekat.com/ Takeshi

    +1.

  • Eric G

    because this isn’t a newspaper and I didn’t pay for it. And well, the title is pure link-bait.

  • Eric G

    well, eyegore, if you’re a regular reader of techmunch, maybe you’d know that NSFW was the title of the fucking column, you dumb fucking dumbass.. but the rest of us that occasionally stumble into this stupid fucking website, don’t know.

  • http://subvisual.net/observations/links-for-2010-03-21/ links for 2010-03-21

    [...] NSFW: Jimmy Wales Wants Me Dead (The Neutrality Of This Article Is Disputed) Personality is the USP. Paul Carr is an opinionated tech journalist. And although he talks a lot of crap sometimes, I enjoy his writing style and I will usually read his pieces. No surprise then to find him here defending the role of the columnist in saving newspapers from certain destruction at the hands of political bloggers, twitterers and other vacuous uninformed flighty types. And rightly so, in the light of Jimmy 'Jimbo' Wales' assertions. (tags: newspapers online journalism) [...]

  • Newman

    But of course each week there are people who have not been here before, so why is it expected that people who were not here in previous weeks, would be familiar with previous explanations?

  • Notal

    But surely Clancy is as entitled to be “quoted” on these subjects as Dowd and Beck. Or can you explain why not?

  • Clearly

    You’re new here, right?

  • D.H.

    I think the NYT adds a lot more value to Dowd, then she does to the NYT.

  • http://www.jmdecombe.com Jean-Michel Decombe

    NSFW simply means Not Safe For Wales. Makes sense?

  • Municipal Hare

    “That includes political bloggers – if they’re really better than Maureen Dowd or Glenn Beck then they’d be hired by the New York Times or Fox News.”

    Unless those are legacy positions in a negative-growth area of journalistic content, in which case mediocrity isn’t a reason to expect turnover.

    Not to say those two don’t bring eyes to the screen. It’s just hard to credit their work as irreplaceable. Do you actually believe Dowd (who mindlessly lifted a Josh Marshall ‘graph last year) and Beck in particular produce higher quality editorial opinion than top-tier political bloggers, or are you just being colourful?

  • http://www.adrianscott.com/ Adrian Scott

    Wow, this article was a real waste of space. Glad I didn’t bother reading the whole thing.

  • Igor

    Momar, you’re a moron.

  • http://www.jmdecombe.com Jean-Michel Decombe

    As Wales suggests above, most people do not perceive value in the opinion of famous columnists, for better or for worse. Turn the WWW upside down and you get MMM, or Mashup Mediocrity Monster.

    Speaking of the NYT, one may want to read this Sunday’s “Texts WIthout Context” at http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/books/21mash.html

  • http://www.mybabybeddingshop.com/ Nancy Newell

    This is scary for newspaper owners and I really like how you finished the article… But hey… the internet isn’t new…web 2.0 isn’t new and it’s something they should have prepared for… the internet is here to stay… free content is here to stay and user generated content is here to stay.

  • http://blogs.fluidinfo.com/terry Terry Jones

    Agreed 100% I find Maureen Down’s columns silly to the point of being almost unbearable (there are occasional good ones, I know). As a writer, as someone with wry wit, as someone with insight, etc. she doesn’t hold a candle to Frank Rich or Krugman. I suppose it’s irrational, but the repeated holding up of Maureen Dowd as a shining example of a columnist detracts from the overall point – I’d pay to have her column replaced by someone else, anyone else :-) Of course I’m only one reader, so no need to take this with more than a grain of salt. I just found her to be a really weird choice here.

  • Andrew

    Yep, worse name ever. Every bloody column it’s the same – 30% of comments revolve around “why is this NSFW” – calling your column an acronym that is used as a warning not to read the column at work is a bit dumb to be honest.

  • fugly

    I believe the fundamental driving issue here is the fact that without Investigative media (newspapers, the news etc.) micro bloggers would have no material to paraphrase, and even more so opinion based media may be a popular source of information but before recommending a media system based on conjecture one should think carefully, on what value the survival of a biased actually media holds?

  • http://laptopmemo.com Stefan Etienne

    Actually I think The Amazing Paul Carr Of The Internets has it nailed to the floor.

    But what do I know, I’m just a 13-year-old known as “the 13-year-old entrepreneur @ LaptopMemo”!

  • D’enny

    So, is this column safe for work or not? Because, quite frankly, I don’t see anything within the column that would disqualify the column from being safe for work.

  • Janet Rae-Dupree

    Actually, Paul, I suspect that first marginally-literate response to Jimbo’s comment here proved your point, as do the various trolls and dimwits that regularly appear in comments. It is a rare writer who can regularly produce high-quality commentary on demand. That’s why the professional pundits get the big bucks. Anyone who contends that “thousands” of others could do just as well clearly aren’t exposed to raw copy on a regular basis. Or they aren’t reading the comments sections under blogs. Same problem.

  • Mike

    It’s Paul Carr’s dream to be a columnist so I don’t think his opinion’s worth very much on this topic

  • jj

    I don’t agree, I don’t read newspapers for “star” columnists opinions on news events. I read newspapers to gather data to form MY OWN opinions. I’ve pretty much stopped buying newspapers and just read everything online now.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=502752253 Jimmy Wales

    Yes. Thanks for asking. What I said at the conference, contrary to Paul’s comical misunderstanding, is that we know that communities can and are doing some things quite well, and that communities – at least so far – aren’t doing other things. A smart newspaper would take note of the changing landscape and understand that the things that can only or best be done in-house with paid staff should be done by paid staff, while things that the community can do should be done by community. Getting the balance right is going to be hard, and there are no easy answers.

  • douche

    are you all people irony-impaired?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=502752253 Jimmy Wales

    Well, I think, and I’m sure this may annoy Paul much more than anything I said at the conference the other day, that there may very well be some economic value in writing outrageous and inflammatory schlock that insults and doesn’t make sense. If you’re really good at it, you can help drive traffic to the platform.

    So he may have a point – in the short run the worst and most bombastic columnists may actually get paid to do it, while the most thoughtful commentators who actually move a the global conversation forward may do it as a labor of love on blogs that become popular but never quite achieve financial success.

    This provides an opportunity for a serious newspaper to build brand. Get rid of the kind of columnists who write the sort of thing you quote above, replace them with people who are willing to engage in nuanced and thoughtful argument – and give up some short term pageviews in favor of building a serious brand with longterm value.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    Richard Rosenblatt said the same exact thing is “Jimbo” Wales at Twiistup 007

    http://twitpic.com/10q4ke

    I know. I was there sitting in the 2nd row listening to him.

    Many of these people are one hit wonders. Jimbo had unsuccessfully tried to create a porn search engine before trying to make an encyclopedia with open source Mediawiki.

    Rosenblatt was the CEO of Intermix, which acquired and sold Myspace to Murdoch Corp.

    What have they done lately? They have spent a lot of money, but I don’t think they have profit margins close to what their prior projects have done.

    And don’t forget these people had tons of failures in the past. Rosenblatt, who flatly said that the LA Times was nothing more than a charity, professionally, had to settle with the state of New York for spreading spyware via Kazaa installs to the tune of millions of dollars.

    These people had plenty of set backs and failures just like everybody else, but they just had one single good hit(like musical one hit wonders)

    So I don’t think we should take what they say as a direction as to where things are going.

    Sergey Brin, and others who have more proven track records are another story.
    Remember what happened with Whales and that Canadian reporter he was going out with?
    These B entrepreneurs are just as much a comedy act as they can be taken seriously.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    Out of courtesy for newbies, here is a citation on my comment:

    http://valleywag.gawker.com/363153/the-dirtiest-wikipedia-sex-chat-you-can-imagine

  • igniman

    It seems to me you are missing an important point here: that columnists are opinion makers, and that’s why they are deemed important. By definition, crowdsourcing and NPOV are not suited for that purpose, they always end up with the lowest common denominator.

    People like being manipulated sometimes; they like to hear the propaganda of the political party they belong to.

  • mark

    Thanks, Jimmy. I appreciate it.

  • Wilma

    “..no identifiable qualifications”

    And Paul Carr’s qualifications are? I guess being a Wikipedia/Wales hater.

  • http://www.esarcasm.com dan tynan

    damn. I thought NSFW stood for “Not Safe for Wales.” totally missed that one.

    paul’s argument essentially boils down to ‘professional columnists rule, amateurs drool.’ as a professional columnist myself, I couldn’t agree more. (but tell me more about this “highly paid” business, please. I find that fascinating.)

    fyi, for all you out there cheerleading at the funeral for newspapers, I have some news for you. without newspapers (or news gathering organizations, to be more precise) 95% of blogs would dry up and blow away. also most 24/7 cable news stations would suddenly have to do actual reporting. I’m not sure they know how.

    there’s a food chain here, and “community reporting” while a nice idea is not going to replace a hard nosed editor and a team of tireless (underpaid) reporters. because who’s going to herd all those kittens? in this food chain, newspapers are the plankton. and once the plankton dies, there goes the whales, not to mention the Wales.

    cheers,

    dt

  • kcheyfitz

    To predict “the total commoditisation of facts and the death of straight reporting” is “so breathtakingly wrong – so tracheotomy-cravingly moronic” that it defies further trashing. But I will add, Paul, that you don’t understand the nature of “facts” if you are seriously advancing the notion that they exist in forms so easily copied and so interchangeable that they become commodities.

  • http://www.ArticlePlayground.com/ Article Playground

    deleted?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=568360495 Coleman Foley

    Completely agree with Carr, although I would add, as several commenters have, that in-depth feature stories are another differentiator. I feel like I get the gist of the day’s news from scanning Techmeme. Aggregators cover the news very well. I wish there as a more comprehensive version of Google News’ Spotlight, which picks in-depth articles of lasting value. Like a Google News Spotlight for tech. I know there are a few good opinion articles in TechCrunch, but I don’t want to wade through 50 articles containing news I’ve already seen to find them.

  • http://www.jmdecombe.com Jean-Michel Decombe

    Not sure why you are replying to my comment. Oh well…

  • Matt

    Are you kidding me? Some reporter that virtually nobody has ever heard of is even remotely considering himself in the same league of opinion that Jimmy Wales, a pioneer of one of the greatest gifts to humanity? Really? If Paul had never been born the earth changes not one iota. Jimmy Wales contribution has changed millions of peoples access to information.

    In fact this article astounds me. Paul is a microbe on Jimbo’s foot. I would listen to Jimmy’s opinion on rocket science before I even considered Paul’s view on the very dying medium he so vigorously defends as so freaking important. I would like to physically harm Paul for being this self-important.

  • Peter

    I’m confused PaulCarr. In the initial quote, Jimmy Wales says Publishers shouldn’t be paying OpEd columnists so much. Then, at the end of your post, you say Jimmy wales said ‘to fire all the columnists’. Which one was it?

    You did it again when the initial quote says, ‘political bloggers are the equal of the newspaper columnists’. Then at the end you say Jimmy Wales said political bloggers were better than newspaper columnists. Again, which one is it?

    Either I’m sensing a little inconsistency here or you’re maybe not telling the whole story. Or maybe you’re just trying to embellish Mr Wales’ words for some reason. Quite honestly, I think Mr Wales is on to something and the days of the glamour columnist tied to the fortunes of a big old-fashioned newspapers are numbered; that is unless they find another way to monetize their bullshit, oops, I mean high value content across other channels.

  • Peter

    NSFW means NonSense For Wankers you freakin’ idiots. Can’t you see the twisted mind of PaulCarr at work?

  • http://secondthoughts.typepad.com Prokofy Neva

    It’s alway good when someone — and there aren’t many man enough to do this! — stands up to the moronic Wikipedia and its cult leader Jimbo. Thank you!

    However, you’re wrong about paywalls not working. Of course they’ll work. Millions of people pay money for virtual farm tractors and Second Life land, Paul, they’ll pay for news and views, too, once you get a kin of “Offer Pal” sort of system where people can use virtual coins to pay per article, to tip bloggers, to pay for more serious work and subscriptions. None of this has been tried; online is new; it might take 10 years to establish the business models that will work.

    Remember when everyone said amazon.com couldn’t possibly work, no one would send money to get something over the Internet?

    So

  • http://jardenberg.se/b/jardenberg-kommenterar-2010-03-22/ jardenberg kommenterar – 2010-03-22 | jardenberg unedited

    [...] NSFW: Jimmy Wales Wants Me Dead (The Neutrality Of This Article Is Disputed) [...]

  • Zergrinch

    I call shenanigans on the Alain T. Britannica bit!

  • http://sethf.com/ Seth Finkelstein

    Sorry, Jimmy, that doesn’t work. I can tell you from personal experience, nuanced and thoughtful argument does not pay. You may find this amusing in an ironic way – a while back, several Wikipedia critics had a long discussion about why mainstream Wikipedia coverage was so poor (ironic in that I know you’ve bemoaned the same problem). I made the point that there’s no incentive to get it right. The naive argument is that the person who gets it right then is “building a serious brand with longterm value.”. But while that sounds nice, it’s wishful thinking. The argument in fact begs the question, by assuming the conclusion that such brand value is significant in the first place. Much as it might metapsychically offend someone of Objectivist leanings, accuracy is very much a non-market quality, needing support from other social institutions.

    This whole discussion has a flawed premise because it presumes “opinion columnist” is something like “investigative journalist”, whereas at the top level it’s more akin to “talk show host”. Why do some TV talkers get big bucks, when there are many people who would do that job just for the celebrity itself? Well, it has to do with complex network effects and similar issues. The shibboleths about bloggers are just confusion.

  • Sriraj

    Okay, I’m seeing Paul Carr being fired by Arrington

  • nob lin

    I mean he feels threatened from the standpoint of a columist…….when jimbo makes comments like…”I don’t see the added value [of opinion columnists]”

    you see…with citizen journalism and crowd sourced news avenues….you get the real news, pure and factual…..not thru the eyes of people like Paul Carr…..who knows what benefits might accrue to him if he even soo much as twist the story line a little bit!!

    Paul, I am sorry but, this is your job…and when a person is paid to do something………

  • http://blog.offbeatmammal.com Offbeatmammal

    Newspapers won’t be dead in the next 12 months, any more than the TV news networks will go away.

    There’s still a large population who don’t read blogs, subscribe to twitter, RSS or think that MySpace is the font of all knowledge.

    And those people actually continue to have a fairly big influence in, oh, federal elections and buying soap powder so they’ll continue to spend advertising dollars to keep the medium alive (and both sides of the political fence)

    I’m not sure that getting all my news from random third parties online is any better than politically motivated big media but does anyone really think that Techmeme and Huffington Post are actually going to provide the sort of reach and insight that the current players provide.

    I would love to the big media take back the role of the Fourth Estate and actually become a viable force for social good again – questioning and digging in the interest of their readers rather than touting press releases as news

  • http://twitter.com/huzaifazoom huzaifazoom

    Are open source programmers to Google et al. as political bloggers to NYT et. al?

    I thought of this parallel after reading a blog by an open source programmer (’tis evil’) turned Google employee (’tis heaven on earth.’)

    I am all for standing up for ideas, but if the recruitment of fiery-souled independents by the Darth Vaders out there is going to be so conveniently rampant, then anti-empire talk is bound to raise the insincere flag.

  • newssweb

    Jimmy is prophesying the death of the Columnist just as Roland Barthes prophesied the death of the author some 40 years ago. But years later, the author is still strong!

    Im with Paul here. I think Jimmy got it wrong. “Timeselect” was basically the wrong product for the readers! Newspapewr, Blog network, AND any information driven outlet will need Opinion columnists because of the simple fact that they add Value, have always added and will always add. Maybe Jimmy should carry a simple observation or a study in socio-journalism and the political economy of communication which will help him to understand the “WHYS” we need Opinion Columnist even in an online driven economy.

  • Daniel G. Faragó

    This was a very interesting post and the comment war on it was even better.

    The enormous task for offline media is to sustain cash flow. (Paul says this can be done via excellent opinion columnists as far as I understand). And there are a couple of challenges:

    1. Readers do not produce enough cash to sustain the media, but are mainly a “tool” to sell ads.

    2. Until now: the more readers, the better cash for ads.

    3. ADVERTISING business is changing, because there are too many for the same pool of cash: Google, Facebook , Twitter, online media, the blogosphere, broadcasting, print media, geoloc services like Foursquare and Gowalla, professional sports and others, too.

    4. With ad and marketing measurement being born companies focus on efficiency of there marketing and sales budget. End of the misty times.

    There is the need to completely reinvent media. More precisely: reinvent the business model of media. We must understand: advertising is not an “endless bag of gold” as it appears to be. One way is to provide experience worth paying for. But I am sure there are several other viable paths as well. You just have to dig deeply, very deeply. “Opinion columnists” are only the surface.

  • EGW

    Feeling a bit threathened mr. columnist?

    At least you made clear from the beginning your article is biased. Nothing like a good rant to get some attention …

  • Pete Austin

    +1 To summarise TFA: Link Bait is what Opinion Columnists do well. That’s why they are more valuable than news reporters.

  • Mark A

    I think the journalism degree would probably count.

  • http://wir-sprechen-online.com/2010/03/22/comment-and-opinion/ Comment and Opinion « Wir sprechen Online.

    [...] It is comment and opinion, not news, that really adds value to newspapers in the Internet age; http://j.mp/afB9pl [...]

  • Mike

    There’s nothing wrong with disagreeing with your colleagues in public, but you should have your position straight before taking the dissent outside house.

    If Paul’s primary point is that Jimmy Wales shouldn’t stick a fork in a given industry simply because Wales couldn’t possibly have the experience to make that call or even have supporting data at hand; then Paul is probably right. The question posed in this article isn’t whether or not old media is dead.

    Rather, the article asks whether or not the opinion of every Tom, Dick and Harry with a successful Web site; should be taken as gospel.

  • http://www.shanzai.com Tai-Pan

    @Shailesh Banta

    Commercial websites are driven by ad revenue (events etc) and need as many eyeballs and views as they can get.

    I would say online columnists often favor a stronger or biased opinion rather than a close examination of both sides of an issue so they can get more comments and audience participation and pageviews… hence a lot of online content behaving essentially like link bait.

    What’s even sicker… is we like it that way :)

  • Jasper

    While I agree that news reporting is going to change irrevocably, if all newspapers fired all their reporters, how would anyone anywhere get verifiable news? It is easy enough for someone writing about digital media to check some facts, make some calls, dig out some cached pages etc, but how exactly do you report for instance a massacre in East Timor without at least one person (and preferably more) on the ground?

  • David A.

    Sounds like newspapers may be reverting back to the 19th century. They will deliver opinion, not news.

  • mixdev

    Sorry, I am confused about who wants whom part of it.

  • flavio

    Actually, some of the most idiotic and wickedly bent opinion columns I’ve ever read, come from the NY Times and some of the best research and informed opinions come from independent bloggers.

  • Matt

    I second Bernie’s opinion. Paul can be amusing at times with his off=beat commentaries. However, I detect a touch of madness there…

  • http://www.twitter.com/willpao Will

    No, Paul’s a cotton-tailed genius.

  • Hamranhansenhansen

    Since nobody can compete with the Web on quantity, you have to compete on quality, which is easy to do since so much of the Web sucks.

    News organizations need a ton of imagination. Give me a free newspaper on the newsprint-quality Web, but sell me a glossy magazine iPad version for cheap. Fill it with lots of photos and video, make me want to tell my friends how great it is to get more than a Web experience of news.

    And be trustworthy, which goes to your point about personalities.

    This is the best time ever for news. But the myopia is amazing. The innovation is lacking.

  • Jaydee

    I think this “How is this NSFW?” type of comment should be automatically first posted as soon as the article goes up. It would save time.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=500038085 Greg Johns

    I like the article and would generally agree but as a interesting note when I looked up the word “inshallah” from the article where Paul talkes about Glenn Beck and the first google link was to Wikipedia. Oh and BTW Wikipedia’s definition shows it to mean the opposite of Paul’s description for Glenn.

  • http://wiink.me Tommy Galloway

    This makes me think of the Reformation. The lasting impact wasn’t merely the schism of Protestant churches from the Catholic faith, it was the expanded access to the Bible that changed the course of modern religion. No longer were believers forced to rely solely on the opinionsna dn interpretations of the priests. With the public printing and availability of the Bible, the masses were finally able to make their own informed (such as they were) opinions.

    I guess my point is that the “single great mass source for news” has now been broken into thousands of splinters. People have access to far more information than they did before. Things will never be the same.

    Where I differ from both Wales AND Carr is that I don’t think it’s A or B. The Catholic church didn’t go away once people had a choice. Print media won’t go away simply because people have a choice. And just because we have all the facts our pee-pickin’ little hearts desire and are fully capable of forming our own opinions, it doesn’t mean we won’t stop wanting other’s to think for us. We, as a people, prefer our facts packaged and wrapped and blended into something we can easily digest. If we want someone to tell us what to think and we’re conservative, Hannity is there to fill our heads with opinion. If we’re liberal, we have plenty of outlets as well. So just because we no longer need our news condensed, it doesn’t mean we’re any more likely to start thinking for ourselves. And those that think for us will continue to find work and be well paid.

  • Ray

    Why are you well paid for your work? That is the million dollar question. Personally I think Arrington was on a major philanthropic endeavour when he hired you Paul. All you really have to trade on is your failure from your past.

    Opinions don’t interest me, because it’s just one person’s opinion, which doesn’t mean it’s even based on fact, which, like your column, I don’t think is worth sh*t.

    The only reason people read the drivel your write is because it’s posted up on this site, and even then, half the people who could be bothered to comment, remark on the NSFW title.

  • http://www.MyWikiBiz.com Gregory Kohs

    Paul, you did such a nice job pointing out how ridiculously foolish Jimmy Wales is, but then you went and called him “founder of Wikipedia”.

    That’s actually a lie. And if you happen to challenge Jimbo on this lie, he will “Decline to participate, sorry”:

    http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/21/marked-for-deletion/

    What a coward.

  • http://www.MyWikiBiz.com Gregory Kohs

    Paul, you did such a nice job pointing out how ridiculously foolish Jimmy Wales is, but then you went and called him “founder of Wikipedia”.

    That’s actually a lie. And if you happen to challenge Jimbo on this lie, he will “Decline to participate, sorry”:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=prev&oldid=282581543

    What a coward.

  • http://www.MyWikiBiz.com Gregory Kohs

    Would an editor please delete this and the parent comment, so that I don’t look like someone who can’t get a URL right?

  • http://www.michaeljung.co.uk Michael Jung

    NSFW, … meaning reporters and journalists loosing their jobs bc the columnists are taking over. Ah yeah and all the other people (legacy systems) are loosing their jobs right now. That is why it is a ‘not safe’, literally. In this case.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=688386822 John Conroy

    …they took uhrrrr jobbbsssssss

  • http://www.michaeljung.co.uk Michael Jung

    No, quit the opposite. People read the comments, spending more time on the site, participate in the discussion with other readers, Jimmy Wales hops on the train in the comments, the comes in Paul …

    The face value of this type of content increases exponential with each new good comment, with each new answer from Paul (or other editors of TechCrunch). Readers recognize (over time) from the authors name that ‘here’ is the conversation about something interesting, worth discussing. I don’t need to skim the first paragraph, or need to know what it is about from the headline sayin’ … I see it is Pauls NSFW +1000 words … and I know from the past that it is worth reading and participating in the intellectual and opinionated exchange in the comments.

    The same how Michael Arrington’s appearance here has changed (a lot since the beginning of TC). Turned from simple start-up and product news +5 a day, to quality scoops and commentary each (or less) a day. And quality is unequal length for him. The complete opposite to Paul Carr and MG Siegler. Michael is pressing fast and hard on the issues, speaking out loud trumors, speculations, observations. He is not tiptoeing around, he writes what matters, beautiful writing is waste. And wasting a loyal readers time is not cool. Especially in the fast paced tech space.

    That might be a reason why TC hasn’t got yet a proper face lift.

  • polo90

    Jimbo’s words really hurt!
    But hey, I got the traffic up!

    A truly stupid post. You really should stay in newspaper opinion column and not spam the web.

  • Carl

    I agree with what you say on comment and opinion, Paul.

    For example, what’s the point of reporting company’s results 24 hours after the event without any added value? Reuters et al beat you to it and got the news out within minutes.

    Give me value-added analysis and insight the next day, not 24-hour old news I’ve already read.

  • WhyMe

    I guess Paul would not beat on on Wikipedia if they advertized on TechCrunch. If you never beat up on sites that advertize on TechCrunch, then you are most definitly BIASED. You didn’t think we’d notice. You are not a journalist, TechCrunch is a fraud.

  • Matt

    I am very thankful for what I have learned from ‘unqualified’ people over the years.

  • John

    Journalists used to be a very diverse lot, both from a political and social perspective. However over the past 30 years, American journalists and big city newspapers have become part of the government class they cover. It is hard to be skeptical of the class when you believe so strongly with it’s motivations and goals. Big city newspapers have become disconnected with many of the readers.
    Add the diversity of news and opinion available on the web and the multiple options available for advertising and you have the perfect storm for newspapers.

  • Matt

    Perhaps I could be the well paid staff image resizer for Techcrunch. It should take up a good 4 solid minutes per day in MS Paint, but I’ll make the time.

  • BW

    ^^^ +1000

  • Matt

    Some things are more important than bottom lines.

    While I consider both Techcrunch and Wikipedia to be excellent resources, the loss of Wikipedia would leave a far deeper scar on humanity. For Paul to outright dismiss Jimmy’s journalistic credentials is a very childish defense mechanism. I doubt Paul would be ashamed to have ‘creator of Wikipedia’ on his resume.

  • John

    Paul – Since TechCrunch hired you I read many of your first articles, they had no value and were moronic at best, since then I have ignored any post with your name on it.

    It is a privilege to work at Tech Crunch and I anticipate the day of your termination.

  • Bob

    Why does the article title say “NSFW”?

  • Steve

    Paul, you are both wrong and completely miss the point.

    The mainstream corporate media you idolize is little more a complicit co-conspirator profiting in its own parasitic way off the increasing dysfuntion in our so-called-democracy. The sole purpose of those you revere and the institutions that employ them is to sell eyeballs on ads. Whatever true investigative journalism backed by editorial backbone that exists today is a faint signal lost in the noise of ephemeral, superficial predictable crap that does nothing other than placate, distract or feed instinctive stereotypes held by neatly defined market segments (and these segments have been created in no small part by corporate media). And yes, of course there is plenty of crap out there in web land, however the rudimentary tools and the methods to find truth are far sharper and only improving.

    One more point you have completely missed is how wikipedia is increasingly the single most productive, efficient and effective news gathering and news correcting “organization” there is. The first time I witnessed this was during Hurricane Katrina. Study how information is assembled, vetted, debated, verified, integrated, augmented, corrected and updated in real-time, and you will see journalism that is the equal or, more often, the better of the corporate news dinosaurs that used to employ you. 99.999% of the time you guys don’t even know when you are wrong, let alone disclose and correct it!

  • amused

    Wow, a Paul Carr post without a link to his own website or a reference to his book? What the hell?

  • http://hauntingthunder.wordpress.com/ Neuromancer

    Thanks mate but after living with dyslexia for a while now I get used to the tossers like you .

    Ok so I missed a couple of .’s out Big fucking deal the sense of what I was saying is perfectly clear to anyone who has an IQ greater than 90.

    Its a fracking comment not a oxbridge fucking essay.

  • Al Frinkel

    Of course you paid for this column! There’re ads all over this site.

  • Jake

    It would be a very sad day if opinion writers–versus quality reporters–where a newspapers most valuable asset.

  • Al Frinkel

    Citizen journalism? Give me a fucking break. Most citizens do not have the breadth and depth of knowledge, the time, energy or commitment to investigate, analyse and report a story. The ones that do we pay and call them “journalists”. All the half-assed thinly-veiled plagiarism on “aggregator” sites or Twitter or MyFaceBuzz or whatever does not compare.

    Furthermore “citizens” are not all objective, impartial, clinical observers with no political leanings, no bias/prejudice/opinion etc. So your retarded claim that you get pure facts from your friends and neighbours is staggering in its naivete.

    I highly respect newspapers like The New York Times, The Guardian, The Independent etc. Yes, they have an editorial slant – that’s fine with me. It gives me something to argue against. They make their money, like this site, by adding their insights, opinions and personality to the reports; and making it worth your money (or page views).

  • vinicius

    Jimmy Wales… oh I thought it was Danny Bonaduce

  • http://www.crunchytoast.com crunchyt

    Actually, Paul’s qualifications are as a columnist and author, and a very good one at that!

    I understand your desire to defend Jimbo, but this article is not character assassination. Paul simply doesn’t think Jimmy Wales is right in saying amateur bloggers will put all the professionals out of business. “Many” will be looking for work, but not the best and most popular!

    Case in point: after reading Paul Carr’s free-e-published book “Bringing Nothing to the Party” I have come to believe his unique voice and insights ARE worth following, AND worth paying for.

    Paul’s ability to make these quality insights are a mix of his writing prowess, intellect and a privilege of the position & contacts he has.

    From that perspective, I hope the incentive remains for people like Paul to come to prominence, and be remunerated for it!

  • Momar Shackleford, MBA, PhD, LLB, MD, DDS, BSEE

    I smarter then you you stupid Soviet!!!!

  • Momar Shackleford

    I thought it mean Not Safe For Wimps

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=139700124 Candyce Moore

    I’m a Journalism major and I’ve talked to journalists from AP, a journalist on the President’s body watch and a local news anchor.

    All would agree with Wales to a degree. Blogging isn’t going to go away and more and more journalists are blogging either as a supplement or as their main venue for writing. That’s not to say the Newspaper will disappear… But to say that some of the BEST Political bloggers are on par with opinion writer for a major newspaper isn’t some huge self-explanatory fallacy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=139700124 Candyce Moore

    ” That includes political bloggers – if they’re really better than Maureen Dowd or Glenn Beck then they’d be hired by the New York Times or Fox News.”

    This argument is based on the idea that all writers of worth WANT to work for big name publishers, with big time editors that have the final say.

  • jebus

    jebus, is shit really so bad that we have to comment when people use “you’re” correctly?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=6700120 Aaron Joseph

    HA!

    I like the inshallah ;)

  • gloria

    @dubya lol :)

  • http://teknikservisara.net teknik servis ara

    I always follow your site thank you wish you continued success for teknik servis

  • S

    @Paul Carr: I agree with you completely, except for one aspect to the point you make. I don’t think that a newspaper can be filled *only* with opinion columns either. News features and reports can never die. Or why would it be called a newspaper? It could be a magazine, or a journal? The truth is that it is a *newspaper*. So what you need is not just a series of columns (direct commentary), but overall content that is backed by a strong, positive, forward-looking *journalistic* opinion. So reporters ARE as important as feature writers are, or as columnists are, because it’s the collective voice of the newspaper – through its reports, features, columns, pictures, as well as tiny snippets – that gives it an identity. It’s that identity that sends out a message to people, on a particular day’s news, in a unique voice, different from the others that are already available. A newspaper needs reportage, but reportage in itself doesn’t either mean dry, perspectiveless, opinionless drafts of rambling information: the opinion has to be in the subtext. Sure, a personality like Maureen Dowd is great to have: but there’s a choice that NYT is making in having hired her, and not say, Jane Moir. It’s in that choice that NYT is speaking to me, that I know who NYT is. Picking a columnist is as much a speech act for a newspaper as deciding what the lead news story should be, or what its tone should be while reporting on a party’s victory in election. (This, however, is not to be confused with ‘bias’; opinion and bias are indeed two different things.) Editors and reporters speak through their selection of events and information. But simply because the content needs to be opinionated does not mean it should be filled only with columns. If there’s no variety of content besides columns, like news reports, features and first person accounts, then there will also be no variety and choice in terms of reading. Direct commentary is not enough. It has to be mixed with indirect commentary. And reportage is the only way to provide that indirect commentary – there’s nothing sexier than a crisp news feature that makes a striking remark without the writer saying a word himself. It’s the essence of journalism. The survival of newspapers will depend on how much they can differentiate themselves – and what they write – from each other (like in any business), and how aware they will be of what they want to *say* to their readers.

  • Hobson

    It’s because of all the boobies.

  • McKay

    lol Jaydee. :) I really appreciate that idea!

  • http://botd.wordpress.com/2010/03/24/top-posts-1426/ Top Posts — WordPress.com

    [...] NSFW: Jimmy Wales Wants Me Dead (The Neutrality Of This Article Is Disputed) Some weeks, writing this column is easy. All it takes is for an influential person – a politician, a business [...] [...]

  • http://www.soulation.org Dad

    You had me strolling along on your post until I tripped over this:

    “Maureen Dowd’s opinion pieces are so powerful because they are packed with insight and fact, much of which stems from the access she enjoys as an internationally recognised columnist.”

    I am a faithful reader of the NYT but no amount of NTY recognition can lift Ms. Dowd’s standing in this reader’s eyes. I feel more narrow-minded every time I read her. Packed with insight? I’m rarely impressed. No matter whether someone is syndicated or simply blogs, sometimes a few good apples and bad apples end up in unlikely places. We have to take each on their own merit as rational animals and not just hop-skip-and-jump at every journalist who happens to be well-paid or popular. Remember, freedom of press in today’s America is an industry, not a truth maker.

  • http://gokidance.exblog.jp/ Jean-McDouche

    Because your name is McDouche.

  • god

    Maureen and Glen who?, never heard of you either.

  • http://www.trendpreneur.com/online/social-media-online/why-reblogging-is-great-for-google-and-for-you/ Why reblogging is great for Google, and for you | trendpreneur

    [...] free-to-view blogs (or in some cases, just copy it). Paul Carr makes an excellent point about the commoditisation of facts, the human need for information and thus the Internet hivemind’s tendency to trend towards [...]

  • James Gregory

    I find it bizarre how so many people who should be well aware of the difference between data and information still manage to believe that there is a clear divide between “fact” and “opinion”. Opinion is nothing more than a focus on some facts at the expense of others. Every day a near infinite number of events take place on this planet. Anyone writing a news article, columnist or otherwise, decides which facts to focus on and which to exclude, and which historical facts to use to provide structure and explanation. The editors of papers and websites then in turn choose which articles to include and which to exclude.

    The arguments for the importance of columnists are exactly the same as the arguments against news aggregation and bloggers – you get to knowingly choose an organised, coherent argument, rather than having an incoherent mashup of seemingly random facts thrust upon you. I appreciate professionally written copy because a) I appreciate coherent argument written by those who work full time on researching and writing and b) I like to be able to put what I read in the context of my knowledge about the people and organisation who published it. I don’t think Paul goes far enough in his defence of traditional, centrally-controlled media – I would continue to read traditional news websites and avoid aggregators regardless of columnists.

    At the same time though, I think Paul’s unrelenting belief in the magic hand of the free market is rather naive. There are plenty of good writers who will never be snapped up by a newspaper, because noone will ever notice them, and because there is no incentive for newspapers to hunt them down when the world only needs so many columnists. There’s also some truth to the idea that being a successful columnist requires being controversial just for the sake of it. And finally, if I really want to learn about something, I read a full length book, or ideally several, and ideally written by people with decades of experience of the topic, not just a newspaper column by someone who is good at writing in general.

  • http://blog.kashflow.com Duane Jackson

    Charlie Brooker for PM.

  • http://www.webcamwithmicrophone.org John

    how is this NSFW ? Nice idea. :)

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