Canada Now Somewhat Less Anti-Startup
Michael Arrington
Mar 8, 2010

Canada isn’t shy about making life difficult for startups, and we’ve had one or two personal brawls with the country as well. But a change in Canadian tax law last week is designed to spur U.S. venture investments in Canadian startups and make Canada less of a leper colony for tech entrepreneurs.

The change allows foreign investors in most Canadian startups to avoid “literally hundreds of pages of documents” to be filed and processed on a sale of a startup, sometimes by each limited partner in a venture fund. That burden meant that most venture firms simply ignored the Canadian market, says Deloitte:

A 2007 survey by Deloitte and Canada’s Venture Capital & Private Equity Association (CVCA) of 528 VCs from around the world found that 40% of U.S. respondents and 28% of global respondents cited Canada’s unfavourable tax environment as a key reason for not investing in Canadian companies. This level of concern is five times higher than for any other country in the survey and reflects the current investment crisis within Canada’s venture capital industry. The survey also found that Canada is attracting the attention of just 11% of U.S. VCs as a primary country for expansion — behind China (34%) and India (24%).

“I predict that over time this farsighted tax legislation will help propel Canada’s extraordinary technology into global industry leadership in numerous markets, and will likely be viewed in the future as a defining moment for the Harper government in Canadian innovation,” says Stephen Hurwitz, a partner at U.S. law firm Choate Hall & Stewart.

That may be a bit optimistic, but the tax change is a nice start. Perhaps over time our frozen neighbors to the north will be known for being great at something more than playing hockey and eating poutine. A robust startups community would be very welcome.

More information:

Change in tax law sends a strong signal to international investors that Canada is “open for business”

Government removes tax barriers and stimulates flow of capital across Canadian border

TORONTO, March 4, 2010 — Canadian companies across the country are likely applauding today’s federal budget, which contains tax law changes that give them the advantage they need to compete on the global stage.

By amending the definition of “taxable Canadian property” to exclude shares of Canadian private companies (where not more than 50% of their value is derived from real property in Canada, Canadian resource property or timber resource property), the government has significantly reduced administrative and, in some cases, economic barriers to foreign investment in Canadian-based innovation and technology. This change puts Canada at the top of the list of places to invest globally.

“The changes in tax legislation announced in today’s budget are among the most significant changes to capital gains taxation since the introduction of taxation of capital gains in 1972,” explains John Ruffolo, Global Tax Technology, Media & Telecommunications Leader, Deloitte. “The Canadian government has listened to the financing community, understood the severity of the problem and removed the major tax barriers that have prevented critically needed international investment capital from crossing our borders.”

“At a minimal cost to the government, this amendment will have an immediate, positive and direct impact on Canada’s ability to grow a robust Canadian technology industry,” explains Terry Matthews, Chairman, Wesley Clover. “By sending a clear message to international investors that Canada is “open for business”, the government will make Canadian companies more attractive to foreign investors overnight. This will help Canadian companies raise the capital they need to achieve global leadership status.”

The change means a much more welcoming environment for foreign investors. In the vast majority of cases, non-residents who were not taxable on the disposition of their investments in such shares due to Canada’s broad international tax treaty network, are now exempt from tax under Canadian domestic law without having to apply for treaty relief. As a result, they are no longer required to comply with the Section 116 tax clearance certificate procedure or file a Canadian income tax return. The changes also remove what were perceived to be insurmountable barriers for many venture capitalists who considered the previous administrative requirements and economic delays for each investor to be strong deterrents to investing in Canada.

“The removal of the Section 116 tax barrier is a tax master stroke by the Canadian government enabling Canada’s emerging technology companies to access deep pools of international capital and the vast global customer markets to which those pools are connected,” notes Stephen Hurwitz, Partner, Choate Hall & Stewart LLP in Boston. “I predict that over time this farsighted tax legislation will help propel Canada’s extraordinary technology into global industry leadership in numerous markets, and will likely be viewed in the future as a defining moment for the Harper government in Canadian innovation.”

BACKGROUND INFORMATION ON THE SECTION 116 TAX BARRIERS

The following describes the tax barriers that were removed in today’s budget and that are no longer preventing international investment in Canada:

• Withholding and Section 116 certificate process — The overwhelming majority of foreign VCs are not subject to Canadian tax when they sell an investment, but face a delay of many months to work through the Section 116 tax clearance process until funds can freely flow to them. Many foreign VCs are structured such that each of the investors in the VC — sometimes hundreds or even thousands — is subject to this clearance process as if they held the investment directly. This delay results in lower returns and frequently causes direct financial loss to investors. Canadians who invest in the United States, the United Kingdom and other major global markets do not face such taxes or delays from red tape.

• Requirement to file Canadian tax returns by foreigners who don’t owe taxes creates hundreds of pages of unnecessary paperwork — Canada imposed tax filing requirements in circumstances where no taxes were payable by these investors. When a foreign VC sells an investment, each investor of the foreign VC has to file a Canadian tax return even if they don’t owe any taxes. This results in literally hundreds of pages of documents that are required for signature and processing for a single sale. This tax return filing issue also applies to certain Canadian public companies.

Why Canada was perceived by VCs as having an unfavourable tax environment
A 2007 survey by Deloitte and Canada’s Venture Capital & Private Equity Association (CVCA) of 528 VCs from around the world found that 40% of U.S. respondents and 28% of global respondents cited Canada’s unfavourable tax environment as a key reason for not investing in Canadian companies. This level of concern is five times higher than for any other country in the survey and reflects the current investment crisis within Canada’s venture capital industry. The survey also found that Canada is attracting the attention of just 11% of U.S. VCs as a primary country for expansion — behind China (34%) and India (24%).

About Deloitte Canada’s tax practice
With the largest tax practice in the country (over 1,500 professionals in 44 offices), Deloitte offers a full suite of tax services to clients in all industries across the country. The market leader in shaping the “future of tax”, Deloitte influences Canadian tax policy with the goal of creating a business climate which propels corporate growth and furthers Canada’s international competitiveness. Known for its industry-leading expertise, Deloitte’s tax practice sets the standard of excellence in Canada and is the only Big Four professional services firm in the country to receive a Tier 1 ranking in the prestigious International Tax Review (ITR)’s “World Tax 2010” report. For further information on Deloitte’s tax practice, visit www.deloitte.ca and for further information on the “future of tax”, visit www.thefutureoftax.ca.

About Deloitte
Deloitte, one of Canada’s leading professional services firms, provides audit, tax, consulting, and financial advisory services through more than 7,700 people in 58 offices. Deloitte operates in Québec as Samson Bélair/Deloitte & Touche s.e.n.c.r.l. Deloitte & Touche LLP, an Ontario Limited Liability Partnership, is the Canadian member firm of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu. Deloitte refers to one or more of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu, a Swiss Verein, and its network of member firms, each of which is a legally separate and independent entity. Please see www.deloitte.com/about for a detailed description of the legal structure of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu and its member firms.

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  • rcmp

    So, let’s see…

    Now Canada makes itself more friendly to outside investment…has a highly educated pool of talent (who paid about 1/4 of what US students pay for higher education); employers don’t have to pay health care (everyone’s taken care of)…gay folks can get married (and, the world doesn’t come to an end)…with 1/10′s the population, they get some massive pro-rata percentage of Olympic medals…and have a history of truly great music…it’s got a range of cultural diversity (who generally get along well without shooting each other) and great prices on sushi (Vancouver)…

    Nah. Can’t be.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=507265635 Eric Dewhirst

    One piece of great news for Canadian Startups. A massive challenge for CDN startups is that the VC community within Canada is so very risk adverse they can hardly be called Venture Capitalists. They are more like bankers than investors.

    P.S. – As for hating the environment – we actually won that fight (Bill 118). When I had talks with gov’t officials your posting was cited as one of the reasons why they needed to change the laws – (Thanks TC).

  • http://afroginthevalley.com Sylvain Carle

    Another bonus for Canadian statups is the fact that you can get a lot of your up-front investment back as Tax Credits, see http://www.slideshare.net/startupcfo/startup-cfo-flow-sred-presentation-032409-1192508 for a good presentation on how it works.

  • Basil

    In our country’s defense, the fact that bad writers for bad regional newspapers occasionally embarrass us in public doesn’t mean that the country as a whole is “anti-startup”.

  • GuyWithDogs

    This “don’t pay for health care” stuff really makes me shake my head. Where do you think the money for the government-run health care comes from? Yup .. taxes. Employers pay big taxes to support health care, and almost everyone has supplementary health insurance for things like dental, vision, AD&D, and things like semi-private hospital rooms and such. You can’t just get anything done for free in Canada – but if you get sick or injured, you don’t lose your house and your kids aren’t in the poor house for generations.

    Your other observations are pretty much spot-on, though.

    There’s even a home-grown fake version of football that requires a certain number of Canadian players per team.

  • http://www.kryptiva.com Karim Yaghmour

    Right on.

  • Josh Koopferstock

    The province of Quebec is especially making strides. The provincial government and other partners recently created a $1B+ VC “fund of funds”.

    http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Quebec+boasts+vencap+growth/2574336/story.html

  • Canadian born

    Canada open for high-tech business??? Maybe when they stop looking at people’s hard drives when they enter the country and go through Customs. This has happened to A LOT of people, and REPEATEDLY. It’s a huge invasion of privacy, and not the kind of place to put startup resources or create jobs. It makes you not want to visit your relatives there… #FAIL

  • Canadian born

    And they appear to target people who work in high-tech and carry laptops (what a weird thing to do, eh?)

  • Mark Degani

    I’m disgusted with your ignorance of Canada. I am dazzled with your expertise in Canadian law. As always, an interesting article laced with your opinions on a subject you only vaguely understand (Canada as whole, this time).

  • tom

    Canadian entrepreneurs have the same track record as canadian VCs. Maybe you should start to support your country as a whole.

  • Matt

    Having a central system for administering health care certainly has some benefits. According to this article (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=avRFGNF6Qw_w) 31% of the $618,616 bill was for administration…

  • http://Www.thesaasguy.com Jijesh

    I love the Great White North.I think folks here are spot on. The VCs are more like bankers.

    Good stuff about Canada – Gays can marry, healthcare is affordable … Ppl are lovely.

  • dwnhill

    OK, yes, someone “pays” – and, it’s from both business and personal taxes — but, remember, taxes are on profits or income…

    Compared to having to coin-out health care contributions pre-tax…

    And, being able to provide competitive salaries where no employer trumps you by offering more health benefit perks…nice level playing field…

    And, yes, fabulous sushi lunches for under $5 bucks on every other corner…but, overpriced wine (both domestic and imports) is clearly one price you pay for living in the land-of-the-actually-free…

  • Steve Benjamins

    …. so tired of the apparent need to poke fun in every American article that references Canada:

    “Perhaps over time our frozen neighbors to the north will be known for being great at something more than playing hockey and eating poutine”

    Get original. Cause it’s getting really annoying.

  • http://www.mashedin.com Jeff Tomlin

    We didn’t find getting investment so difficult up here in Saskatoon and closed $3m with a local partner. So it feels like using the term “leper colony”, while pretty funny, is a little strong. On the other hand, you can’t really say that we have a roaring startup community. I’m still not sure if that’s because of a lack of investors, startup entrepreneurs or a combination of the 2.

  • Michael Arrington

    was that $3 million in real dollars or canadian dollars?

  • Michael Arrington

    (just kidding, don’t freak out, eh)

  • Peter S.

    …and good beer too!

  • Michael Arrington

    when i lived in Canada everyone I knew with any money flew down to the U.S. for any serious medical procedures.

  • Michael Arrington

    Angry Canadians are cute.

  • Stevie

    Yeah, it’s funny how the VAT, GST, and PST are never taken into account when they talk about free. That adds up to a really expensive version of free.

  • Stevie

    Oh yeah, all start ups are worried about Olympic medals, homosexual marriage, and Sushi.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=849335044 Gautam Banerjee

    which is a tiny, tiny, tiny, percentage of Canadians. The number of Canadians who seek medical care outside of Canada is so small it’s irrelevant. Just because you know 2 or 3 rich people who did it, doesn’t mean it’s the norm.

  • Chris Nelson

    How unamerican of you to take cheap shots at Canada. Still hurting from the Olympics or jealous that we did not have to bail out our banks.

    Wait the dollar is at par too but who is counting.

    On start-ups – thanks for promoting the changes and hopefully we will see more interest from our friends to the south.

  • Mike D

    On the other hand, everyone that I know from Bellingham and Blaine who has Canada spouse, drive up to Vancouver to go to hospital for medical issues and surgeries and not to mention, have their baby(s).
    In fact, my aunt had her 5 kids in Vancouver, BC and she is a US citizen married to a Canadian living in Bellingham (and a strong Republican, which I find funny)

  • http://alexblom.com/blog/ Alexander Blom

    Thank god. About time. I come over here (Toronto) on a student visa in September and am hoping to stay. While I have to move onto a work permit this at least gives me SOME confidence!

  • http://www.MashupArts.com Shaun MacDonald

    Tis true that we never tire of beating you at hockey. The rub on this particular roadblock for American VC’s was that it was so expensive in terms reporting overheads, it killed the deal value. Now that it is simpler to invest, first mover VC’s have an incentive to look for bargains, and local companies have an interest in US venture partners, given that most big exits will come from cross-border sales.

  • http://alexblom.com/blog/ Alexander Blom

    P.S. These flame wars are ridiculous.

    Teasing Currency: Canada’s dollar is TOO HIGH. Not saying the Canadian economy is weak but much is based on exporting. A lower dollar is better here.

    U.S. Bashing: Quite alot is owed to the U.S. Most of your economy for one. And Tim Hortons.

    To the U.S. : Maple Syrup (the best I can think of)

  • Mike D

    @Eric – Agree 100%.

    Having first hand experience with Canadian VC’s, I would say, Canadian VC’s are bunch of cowards in terms of taking risk, especially when it comes to technology and internet start-ups. They are pretty much either too lazy to research or incompetent in the industry, unless you are into lumber, mining or oil :) . I guess that is the reason why you don’t see any good startup from Canada who are actually funded by Canadian VC’s. You see more successful startups coming out of India and China than Canada.

    Plus, most of the successful ones are either funded by US VC’s or have moved to Silicon Valley.

    So competition is good. Hopefully this will be a wake up call for Canadian VC’s.

  • Michael Arrington

    taking cheap shots at Canada is an American tradition. Besides, like I said above, they started it.

  • The John

    See the exchange rate recently?

    1 USD = 1.0275 CAD

    I wish your statement was closer to the truth, but the US dollar isn’t doing so great.

  • http://www.erikyuzwa.com eyuzwa

    I’m still laughing at living in a “tech leper colony” eh?

  • Michael Arrington

    that’s irrelevant to my attacks.

  • http://www.newspress.us/2010/03/09/career-tech-garage-to-be-auctioned-to-benefit-school-programs/ Career tech garage to be auctioned to benefit school programs « News Press

    [...] Read more on TechCrunch [...]

  • joe

    here in southern ontario, there are actually private medical facilities with doctors who “trump” USA doctors, might you it costs an arm and a leg but I know some ceo’s of billion dollar companies who have gone there for medical issues.

    I would trust a canadian doctor over an american doctor any day. Did you know one canadian soldier is equal to 5 american soldiers? it’s a fact…

  • http://wattf.com/wp/ Jim Murphy

    Love it.

    Me and the other lepers are *reeeeaaly* looking forward to spending your money.

  • http://www.entreprenURLs.com EntreprenURLs

    I saw going to post something to that effect. if you’re looking for startup capital, check out tech capital in waterloo, ontario (i have no affiliation with these people).

  • Mike D

    Sorry for getting too political. Just found out today that even Sarah Palin comes to Canada for medical treatment. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/08/palin-crossed-border-for_n_490080.html

    Now, that is funny :)

  • David Ciccarelli

    The business environment in Canada varies greatly depending on which part of the country you live in.

    Waterloo for example is home to Research In Motion (BlackBerry) and OpenText, both billion dollar companies.

    In London Ontario, you’ll find a hub of digital media companies such as DigitalExtremes (BioShock and BioShock 2, EK3 (Digital signage you see at HomeDepot, WalMart and Tim Hortons, as well as Voices.com (voice-overs for Nintendo, NBC, ABC, Microsoft and Cisco).

    http://www.voices.com

    Further more, there are several tax credits as mentioned above including the Scientific Research and Experimental Development tax credit and the Ontario Digital Media tax credit where you receive cash back from the government for product developments.

    http://www.ontario.ca/en/services_for_business/index.htm

  • Dave

    When I lived in Canada (11 years), our friends from the States would come up for medical treatment to avoid making claims on their US Insurance. They got great treatment (hernia operations being quite popular).

    Our family had a few “major” needs that Canadian health care dealt with instantly, no questions asked, no forms to fill out, no endless stream of bills and non-bills in the Post — and, the ability to jump from Dr. to Dr. for multiple opinions.

    It isn’t a perfect system, but, compared to US medical programs? And, for entrepreneurs — it means not having to use funds for insurance contributions, etc. — there’s a reason many International companies have established businesses in Canada; well educated people without health care (direct) costs.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=500843310 Christopher Charabaruk

    Oh, wow! Does this mean there’s actually something in this year’s federal budget which isn’t a load of back-patting Conservative bullshit?

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    You still can’t file for an S-Corp in Canada.

    No LLC. You have to file as a Federal Corporation, and pay both corporate income tax, close to 50% on the corporate profits, then AGAIN on your personal salary from the corp.

    That is about a 70% income tax rate on PROFIT, not gross for a corporation with less than 5 investors.

    I made $10 and the Canadian and Quebec government takes $7 of it?

    Then they charge you twice what fuel costs in the USA with a 50% fuel tax?

    The $11 per hour minimum wage is too much for meanial work. I want to import from China to save money and get an international edge.

    http://bit.ly/cwSgZr

    Oh wait,

    “Value added tax (on almost all products) and consumption tax (on some products) are also assessed at the point of importation. The normal VAT rate ranges from 17% to 13% for certain items. Importers of certain consumer goods (e.g. tobacco, liquor and cosmetics) must pay consumption tax at a rate varying between 3% and 45%.”

    Those goods include digital goods(such as you pay people from other countries for digital goods and import them) and electronics.

    Then they turn around and give all the tax money to GM through EDC(Export development Canada), they Queen, such as the 3M Charles and his sex toy visit last november, or they flat out steal it like famed Bananno gangster and Canadian Minister Gagliano did by selling MERX contracts wholesale to the highest ITAC member bidder. Of course he had to be appointed to do that, and swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen and her family. The royal oath. No problem for a Canadian dirt bag. Or to Celine Dion and other wealthy millionaires through heritage fund and Socan while their poor live in dirt and disease infested trailer parks with no heat in the winter.

    So I recommend steering clear of Canada until they clean up for realz. Not just quick symbolic carrot to lure you into the Canadian death pit.

    Once you are in their grip, you have to struggle to shake free. Best to stick to doing business with the USA or locally if you are in another country.

    Canada has a thin veil, and you should not be fooled. If they didn’t have such a bad reputation, they wouldn’t need to do this to begin with.

    They earned their bad name in IT.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    My comment was filtered because of a link to bitly, so I am posting this link to paste bin so hopefully it gets through:

    http://pastebin.com/PcN32XeW

    It’s negative, but truthful about Canada, and why they wish to rip small companies off.

  • http://indicee.com Mark Cunningham

    oh ya…my US investors hate the fact that our company has received almost $2M back from the Canadian government tax and innovation programs(SRED and IRAP) over the past 3 years. Oh and that is FREE money…non dilutive. These programs existed long before these new laws. That sure makes our runway a lot longer. I have met with tonnes(that is Canadian by the way) of US VCs and most of the time I spent 20 minutes educating them on our various Canadian tax and innovation programs along with the reality of investing in Canada. It ain’t that hard my friends.

    The new laws are great and they only sweeten the pot for Canadian investment.

    The reason why US VCs don’t invest is Canada is lack of knowledge and education. They don’t take the time to “get it.” The smart ones take the time and find great opportunities.

    Mark

  • big aristotle

    haha. That’s funny. I am Canadian, and I’ll say we are starting to get an edge to us. Note the Olympians thirst to beat everyone else and own that podium. The times they are a changin.

  • johnnycanuck

    Here are the top six reasons I, as a Canadian, prefer living in SoCal to Vancouver (where I lived for 5 years): November, December, January, February, March, April. Or in one word: Rain.

  • Pier-Olivier Thibault

    I think both countries have their pros and cons, I think having the choice to rely on the public system for healthcare is a good thing. Yeah, we pay more per capita, yes, there’s loophole, yes there’s a need for improvement, but I rather improve our current system than having everything privatized.

    I’m never sick myself, and I think a lot of people go to the hospital for useless reasons, but I think the problem would get solved by boosting our education. This way, people would learn a bit more about medecine as a general knowledge and wouldn’t be scared of everything they come across.

    I got side tracked but it I felt like it was needed :)
    Enjoy!

  • Pier-Olivier Thibault

    @christopher: You are clueless. You made 10$ and the gvt took 7$

    Company taxes don’t go higher than 25% and you pay taxes on your salary if you take all your profit and dump it on your personal bank account.

    As for the fuel, we don’t invade countries to get our petrol cheaper and we export most of our petrol so yeah, it costs us more than in USA which is one of the place on earth where it’s the cheapest. Go to Europe if you need proof

    You’re post is irrelevant.

  • http://www.brunotrani.info/blog/2010/03/09/strength-in-numbers-canadians-entrepreneurs-flock-to-the-c100/ Strength In Numbers: Canadians Entrepreneurs Flock To The C100 | bruno trani dot info

    [...] able to do it twice in one day. But apparently today is that day. Earlier today I wrote about changes to Canadian tax law that makes outside investments to Canadian startups less onerous. And now I have the honor of [...]

  • RJ

    But they only speak french!!

  • http://www.brunotrani.info/blog/2010/03/09/strength-in-numbers-canadian-entrepreneurs-flock-to-the-c100/ Strength In Numbers: Canadian Entrepreneurs Flock To The C100 | bruno trani dot info

    [...] able to do it twice in one day. But apparently today is that day. Earlier today I wrote about changes to Canadian tax law that makes outside investments to Canadian startups less onerous. And now I have the honor of [...]

  • qnaguru

    “You see more successful startups coming out of India and ”

    Startups in India? When Where?
    There is GigaBytes of Red Tape to deter you from doing such a thing.

  • http://www.mashedin.com Jeff Tomlin

    That was Canadian $… just enough to replace our Vista machines with Mac books and 1 flight to visit US VC’s. Sorry about the gold medal hockey game MA.

  • Josh Koopferstock

    Lol that’s why we have a major English newspaper. It’s just for all the Americans that want to read about Montreal. Aren’t we generous? ;-)

    (That’s a joke. There are many people in Quebec who speak French and English, and who knows how many other languages too.)

  • andrew

    AMERICANS DONT KNOW WHAT POUTINES ARE???

    i never knew it was just a Canadian thing

    If you an American go out right now and buy some cheese curds then put them on some fries and pour gravy on top

    its amazing <3

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    You should also take a look at this, if you believe the Quebecians inviting you to do business in their “supreme land”

    http://bit.ly/9lOAed

    “Catalogues, brochures, folders, commercial directories and other such publications, as well as computer software, must be in the official language. In the case of video games, although the game software itself is exempt from the provisions in the Charter”

    The video game exemption was made for Ubisoft in Montreal, a French company.

    You’re non french based business will not be exempt. This is a racket by the provincial government forcing companies to pay unskilled “translation laborers” $100 per hour to do translation work. It may and probably will double the costs of producing your product.

    This is also a form of legislated racism against the English and Chinese populations of the province, as they are forced to send their children to school in a language they do not understand. Emerson schools such as they have in Ontario are prohibited. All forms from the government are in French. If you try to complain to OCOL or another agency, your complaint will be thrown in the garbage. If anybody wants to see sample complaint emails that were unlawfully terminated, email me.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    “You’re non french based” should be Your non-french based business.

    Sorry about the typo.

    Please also read this article about what Quebec politicians think of American business:

    http://nyti.ms/9LTu8L

    “”This is a pure case of savage capitalism,” Raymond Bachand, the Quebecian minister of economic development, innovations and exports, told reporters. “They decided to flush away Quebec.”"

    They basically hate Americans and America.

  • Carmen Hughes

    Well aside from all the bickering comments, the article was positive (btw, i loved the leper colony analogy). I think this is a great move by the Canadian government to help the tech startups be more appealing to outside VC. Good move that will be a win-win.

  • mike

    Canada still rates pretty good on the heritage foundations economic freedom index (just ahead of the U.S.) http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking.aspx

  • prowsej

    I don’t know what an S-Corp is.

    The only question I would ask is “don’t most US states apply their sales tax on imported goods as well?” (including US states with hot startup markets such as California and NY)

  • Joshua Prowse

    Thanks for quoting that incorrect wikipedia page; I’ve now deleted the unsourced content that you linked to and updated it with correct content that links to the actual section of the legislation in question.

  • prowsej

    I think that the quotes you identify are interesting because they were spoken in a context of offshoring manufacturing jobs. Politicians on both sides of the 49th parallel get antsy about such moves and say things that don’t make economic sense.

  • http://techvibes.com/blog/global/post/us-startup-visa-bill-great-news-for-canadian-entrepreneurs-looking-to-head-south Technology news – Techvibes Blog

    [...] in Toronto and various activity going on in Quebec. Even TechCrunch had a headline today saying 'Canada Now Somewhat Less Anti-Startup'. [...]

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    Here is the Index on Quebecia’s official website

    http://www.olf.gouv.qc.ca/english/charter/index.html

    Notice the horrendous English translation. If Quebec makes a mistake in communicating with your company because they discriminate against English language applicants to process English language claims and you lose thousands of dollars like I did with the BDC, it’s considered your fault.

    You could complain to OCOL, but the French ministers stacked OCOL with ONLY french employees who have about a 2nd grade English comprehension level. They throw away any complaint which is not french based against an English or Chinese language employer.

    You have to be there to experience the discrimination, the mafia, the rock machine, and the other motorcycle gangs that the government contracts and is affiliated with.

    The Sopranos is nothing compared to Canada.

    If you want to gamble your business to them, go ahead. You will be sorry. They will change the rules on a whim, and they are out to rape your business, and your lively hood for the glory of the “official language” and “her majesty” the Queen, who they pledge their lives to.

    Oh, and they’re completely crazy.

  • Christopher

    Check the section of that link titled:

    Chapter VII
    The language of commerce and business

    for details

  • Christopher

    “They throw away any complaint which is not french based against an English or Chinese language employer.”

    Should read:

    “They throw away any complaint which is not french based against an English or Chinese language government agency”

    It could also be an employer, but they would have to be affiliated or funded by the federal govt.

    The point is that OCOL is a joke, and there is no remediation for large sums of money lost due to the Quebecian or Federal govt in Quebec making errors when they communicate with you in English.

    They want to force you to hire Quebecians and to take on the costs of setting up an extra french based infrastructure.

    This can easily bankrupt a business. There is no remediation for this. No way to claim money back against the Canadian government. Even if there is a legal way, they do not process claims.

    They do not follow their own law when it does not serve their interest in Canada. That is the major difference with the United States.

    The US will give you due process even if it is not in the interest of the government or ruling class.

  • elai

    The US has state sales tax too you know. And it gets up to ~10%, just %2 above alberta’s tax rate. There is no VAT in canada.

  • elai

    If your really stupid about your corporate structure it’s like that. You can start a BC-Corporation and have an ~%10 small business corporate tax rate and then pay yourself in dividends. In the end it ends up to about the same as being employed, since payroll taxes cost that much in total to employers and employees before $50’000.

  • cheena

    Don’t worry, Google will save the future … ALmost. :D

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=722520811 Subhankar Ray

    Canada is beautiful..

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    The minimum corporate rate in the US is 15%

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world

    Our company is a Delaware company which close to the 15% tax rate.

    The minimum in Canada is 30%.

    Compound that with 40% personal tax, and 15% sales tax, and there you have it.

    Also interstate tax is billed when you purchase products and not deferred to the individual to pay on their own recognizance like the USA.

    Canada doesn’t trust you to pay tax in your own state. American gives people the benefit of the doubt.

    Employer side of EI? What did the government do with that in Canada? They paid GM execs right before they declared bankruptcy with a 8Billion dollar payout through EDC. That was ALL Employment insurance money paid by small business in Canada.

    A very small group of people steals from the country and pays themselves in Canada.

    Gagliano, after cheating the nation out of millions for personal gain, getting no jail time, asked his fellow ministers for 1 million to buy himself a vinyard in Quebec. He got it from Farm credit Canada. He was not a farmer, but rather an accountant for the mafia.

    In Canada, you are rewarded for the worst and most illegal behavior possible. As long as you speak’ed le fronch that is and hang with gangs.

    I can understand why some of you would like to deceive American investors. Phone scams from Vancouver are rampant with people who do that.

    But we will not have it any longer.

  • Markus

    Pay no attention to Christopher Rondot, he’s bitter over his several failed Quebec-based tech companies.

    What’s this new startup you have now that is “going to take worldwide content delivery to the next level”? What are we up to now, your 8th venture in 4 years?

    What happened to your “Google killing search engine” and your “patent on Social Networking?”

    Good luck psycho Chris.

  • http://www.techbridge.ca Sasha Baksht

    I think it is good for US investors. But for Canadian startups that means more money on the market and higher compensation rates for developers as a result. This shall force startup companies to outsource more. So Techbridge should expect more requests for software development services. Sounds good!

  • http://www.techbridge.ca/blog/2010/03/09/canada-now-somewhat-less-anti/ Canada Now Somewhat Less Anti-… « Techbridge's Blog

    [...] Now Somewhat Less Anti-Startup http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/08/canada-now-somewhat-less-anti-startup/ Comments [...]

  • Steve Benjamins

    Haha wow. You must be so annoying in real life.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    Pierre,

    “As for the fuel, we don’t invade countries to get our petrol cheaper and we export most of our petrol so yeah,”

    http://oilsands.alberta.ca/

    You should also that Canada has the largest natural oil deposits in the world besides Saudi Arabia.

    Canada’s gas prices are actually about the same as the USA. If you go to certain gas station ( I remember couch tard had this ), they will itemize the price of gas, then the 50%+ tax that you pay on that gas on the receipt.

    If you look at this you will actually see that the price of gas in Canada is the same as the USA, but that the government of Canada and Quebec tax it several times more than it is here.

    Harper said he would reduce or eliminate these taxes as his election platform. He obviously lied.

    He will be another Jean Cretien pawn to the British thrown and the vice roy, who will remain in power for what amounts to 4 terms for a US president.

    He will call his own election like a king under the British covenant when he is good and ready to retire.

    Why do you put up with it? Because you ARE a Canadian and you DON’T know any better.

  • Christopher

    should say:

    “You should also know that Canada has the largest natural oil deposits in the world besides Saudi Arabia.”

    I rarely have time to proof read comments these days. Sorry about the typos in my posts.

  • Christopher

    should be:

    “Canada’s gas prices are actually about the same as the USA. If you go to certain gas stations”

    again, sorry about that. I had no time this morning. Or yesterday for that matter.

  • http://www.igloosoftware.com JoyW

    Thanks for the author who brought up this topic. I encourage you to check out this canadian startup. http://bit.ly/cYAyUw

  • http://www.techbridge.ca/blog/2010/03/10/twitter-updates-for-2010-03-10/ Twitter Updates for 2010-03-10 « Techbridge's Blog
  • Christopher

    I am not. Who are you?

  • http://www.nerdbusiness.com Schwabe

    This news has put a big fat grin on my face.

    As a Canadian launching a new startup, interested in US backed VC financing, the two big options you had were: A) launch in Canada and wait for a tax amendment (removal of Section 116) B) wait for something like a Startup Visa Act and then launch in the US.

    Glad to hear it’s even more attractive to launch in Canada. The decision now for Canadian entrepreneurs is easy.

  • Steve Benjamins

    “He will be another Jean Cretien pawn to the British thrown and the vice roy, who will remain in power for what amounts to 4 terms for a US president.”

    (1) pawn to the British thrown? what century are you from? Good god, this isn’t Robert Borden we’re talking about
    (2) Harper has only been in power for what is basically 1 term for a US president and there is a good chance we may see a Liberal minority in the next year

  • Klaus

    Say what you wish. Fact to the matter is that Canadian get more for their dollars than US citizens do.

    In Canada total tax revenue for every level of government is 38% of GDB. In the USA that’s 39% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canadian_and_American_economies). Meanwhile whereas the Canadian healthcare system is mostly government-funded, people companies are closing in the US because they can’t insure their employees.

    Please stop the nonsense and educate yourself!

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    “pawn to the British thrown? what century are you from?”

    Unfortunately, I am from the 21rst century. Sad isn’t it?

    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/11/25/11927861-sun.html

    “The visit of Prince Charles and his wife Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, cost Canadian taxpayers an estimated $2.57 million, according to documents released through access to information.

    The same documents estimate a proposed visit to Canada in June/July 2010 by the Queen, would cost the public purse another $3.64 million. ”

    I did my duty to stop these people, just like our American forefathers. I will do whatever else I can to get rid of them from our continent permanently.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    Employer side of QPP, QPAP, and employer side of EI.

    In the United States, you can get your own cheaper private workers compensation insurance.

    THAT’s where the money comes from. Then you have people who have 2 year waits on hip replacements, and cataracts surgeries. People who die from tooth infections spreading because there is no dental insurance, and employers don’t readily provide it like in the US because of socialism.

    People in Canada are put on wait lists so long, that Asian and Mexican medical tourism is rampant with Canadian customers.

    Employer side of QPP, QPAP and EI is much higher than in the US.

    A freaking whopper combo in Canada costs $10 where it is about $4-5 here because of this. A gallon of gas is $8.

    Then you have the corrupt ministers across the board who simply steal with no regard to the laws they impose the general population.

    Canada sucks. Did you know that to join the RCMP you have to re-affirm the Royal Oath to protect the Queen and her family? Not to Canada, to the Queen a foreign nation.

    You should be ashamed.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    Sorry, QPAP should be QPIP.

    Also, you employers have to pay contributions to the CSST for employee medical care.

    The main problem with this is that large building contractors with a high probability of injury to employees pay the same rate for health insurance as a software company where the employees are in an office and the highest probability of injury is a paper cut.

    Such is the medical system. Those who smoked, and did drugs pay the same rate as those who were careful and took care of themselves.

    That probably shouldn’t be rewarded.

    Drug addicts in Canada are given more drugs at govt expense and they are allowed to live on social security before retirement at $1000 per month compensation.

    All at the expense of small businesses.

    The ministers don’t care because they steal from the government funds to the order of millions of dollars, so they have no motivation to change anything. I saw corruption at the public works dept, SOCAN, BDC, EDC, and other agencies which are set up to help the public, but who actually just fund ministers and their close friends.

    Mulroney took millions under crown agencies also. He got caught for one such instance, and was not punished, sanctioned or anything else.

    The US actually had to get Conrad Black.

    Canada is a sad joke. They will market it to you so you come. When you get there, they will rape you beyond what you could ever imagine in a nightmare.

  • http://www.cdnpal.com Christopher

    If you pay yourself in dividends and say you have no salary at this company that you own all the shares in and the company only has about 5 employees, expect the CRA and BC to jump all over your ass.

    Dividends are taxable at the capital gains tax level, which is EXTREMELY high in Canada.

    This would be almost as bad as paying yourself a salary.

    There is no S-Corp in Canada, and it’s on purpose. They know they are screwing small business, and they want to keep doing it.

    Notice how everything in Canada that works(for a while) is done between the provincial and federal government, and a closed contract for tax rebates with a multi-national.

    The government lets them think they are saving money, then BAM, they hit it, they rape the corporate ass into bankruptcy then attach themselves forever. Nortel, GM, ect….

    Canada is like a venus flytrap, where they lure you in with marketing for Celine Dion, Hockey and Maple syrup. Once you buy into it and set up shop, then slowly kill you and make it impossible for you to leave, even using the legislative branch, if you could call it that, to legislate against you.

    They “usurp and deform”.

    If Canadia, esp Quebecia, had a slogan for business it would be: “usurp, frenchimitize, deform and bankrupt”

    All that money that SOCAN paid Celine from the small business tax pool, you know where the money went? It went to Las Vegas and Nevada taxes. It doesn’t even pay back.

    They’re so stupid, they don’t even care. All the economic incentives meant to help ordinary Canadians are spent on luxury vacations and taxes to other nations by the friends of the wealthy ministers, who are always the ones who end up getting grants from those agencies.

    Telefilm, SOCAN, BDC, EDC, Farm Credit Canada, Air Canada, and any other crown corporation or heritage fund agency is one big fraud scam legalized by the Queen who wrote and endorsed the charters, and the ministers, who couldn’t give a flying damn about the public as long as they keep filling their pockets.

  • http://www.thesimplemachine.com The Simple Machine

    In my recent post on my blog, I have a direct link for a free personal tax software for use in canada. This software is better than most paid ones, I have used it for the last two years and intend to use it again this year.

    http://www.thesimplemachine.com/free-canadian-tax-software/

    Give me a shout if you have any questions about the software.

  • http://www.techbridge.ca/blog/2010/03/14/twitter-weekly-updates-for-2010-03-14-2/ Twitter Weekly Updates for 2010-03-14 « Techbridge's Blog
  • Ilan Ben Menachem

    Thanks for quoting that incorrect wikipedia page; I’ve now deleted the unsourced content that you linked to and updated it with correct content that links to the actual section of the legislation in question.

  • http://podiumfunds.com/ Podium Calgary

    Michael, thank you for a great post and a interesting discussion. Just wanted to invite your readers to the event at Flames Central. Podium Funds is launching is first corporation with a part on April 28th. Come on over and let’s have fun. The event is complimentary, feel free to register at /launch-event at the site. Thanks again!

  • me
  • http://windsor-financial-advisor.com Brent

    I’d love to see a followup to this about any impact this change has already had.

  • http://www.alexander-ene.co.uk Mark The Accountant

    Microsoft also has a free software that you can download. It is a basic software but does the job.

  • me

    Intellectual property and business law resources for technology start-ups

    http://www.pinskylaw.ca/Resources/resources.htm

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