So there giving people the ability to port Flash and AIR stuff onto mobile phones, yet they continue to complain over Apple.

MC, wherever you are, I told you this was coming, and you insisted I was wrong.

Fanboy.

Wow, ending with a bad pun and everything…

Flash is more important than Apple – both their hardware & software (apple software is garbage[might as well be the japanese])

Well apple continues to be an app nazi.

You know I may just ditch my iphone and the $$$ I put into apps. I’ve developed an Adobe AIR IRC Client and a now working on a Chrome Extension and I love working with these. I wrote an iPhone app too and that was also fun, but I think Chrome & AIR are platforms I like, just because it’s so easy. Can’t really beat the xcode debugging stuff and Objective-C is nice, but I don’t know. I think I’m maybe going to switch out iphone for ipod touch and get a Nexus One when my plan is up this year.

word.

je conviens

Flash is more important than Apple. haters

I thought “write once, run anywhere” was Java. No?

You can’t really expect users to download an app for every website with Flash they want to visit. Besides the fact that all apps for iPhone have to go through Apple’s protracted approval process and may or may not be approved in the end. Wouldn’t it be better to give users both options, ie. download the app or view Flash in the page?

“Adobe execs cite numbers by Strategy Analytics which estimate more than half of all smartphones will support Flash by 2012 (click chart at right to enlarge).”

Big deal when half of all smart phones (models) represent less than 10% of the market!

YES!! GO ADOBE, we’re behind you all the way

I know. What’s up with that?

Adobe is still working on FlashLite 4 (which will support ActionScript 3) for low-end phones. But it seems most mobile web surfing is done via the more powerful smartphones, so that’s where the main focus is these days.

Do I understand right? Adobe plans Air to be able to “transcribe” an Air App into a native iPhone App?

If that is true then it´s the final end of Flash, but anyway, Adobe shouldn´t care about Flash, but about selling the best development tools (for a lower price!!). For whatever plattform or language or OS.

P.S.: Titanium – an interesting alternative to Air – is already able to port code onto iPhone, Android and Desktop! Also Titanium is a young startup from Mountain View which is for me personally far more sympathetic than big Adobe bullying the world with their terrible Flash plugin!

Have a look here:
http://www.appcelerator.com/

Flash is dead, it´s HTML 5 is the future!

Flash is dead, dead, dead!

Yeah! Adobe Fan club meeting in a telephone booth near you! ;-)

You don’t read TechCrunch too often do you?

I always thought apple should have accepted flash on the iphone willingly!! Coz having adobe force flash down their throat would be really painful to watch. And that is exactly what will happen once flash/air become ubiquitous on most mobile devices and people realize that a lot of itunes shovelware is available for free on other smart phones.

It make me remember Microsoft announce their “OneApp” platform for the feature phone on 2009, but it seems not really success.

… fair enough that Adobe tries to enter the mobile market (again). Before praising Adobe for doing this please have a think about application development … for instance a Blackberry app uses totally different interface paradigms compared to an iPhone. “write once, run anywhere” is totally unrealistic. Of course there are ways of sharing code (you should have that in mind anyway) but to provide a great user experience your application should follow the user expectations rather than introducing something else.

That’s why I never liked AIR that much. Many AIR desktop apps just don’t feel like desktop apps at all. The only one that really got me is the NYTimes reader. But you can see they spend a hell of a time on getting everything you would expect from a native app into the AIR application.

And if mobile OS platforms (smart phone) will be reduced to two or three in the next few years it might be worth doing some maths first before blindly start an AIR app.

Who’s MC ? Anyway…

Adobe Flash is trying to survive in a world where Runtimes are becoming obsolete and uncomfortable.
Their marketing strategy is aimed to their big developer community, that’s also the only way for them to make $$$…

Their proposal (“portability in a nice and well known development environment”) is appealing but clumsy and technically a mess.

1) They need to ensure support and updates for any underling OS (mobile and desktop) with all the different native APIs, SDks and HD Specs.
Expect a huge delay : iPhone is out since 3 years..Android 2 years…Flash is still a promise.
What will happen with iPhone OS 4.0 and Android 3.0, will the developer need to wait Adobe to update the Flash/Air runtime/SDK to support the new features and changes….Months….Years ?

2)Performances…..runtime = slow, cpu intensive and battery drain…..

3) The process is mad : a dev need to design and build an iPhone App in Adobe CS, then convert it to AIR to make it compatible with Android and Windows Mobile ???

4)AIR has failed in the desktop , why should it succeed in the mobile space ?Maybe yes, maybe not, sure there is not a good score if you look at the past.

If I was Adobe I would drop the AIR strategy, and build an iPhone Browser with Flash support then distribute it in the CYDIA Store for Jailbroken iPhones/iPads/iPods.

Once FLash is on the iPhone they Win and Apple will allow officially for it.

Flash is dead, the most stupid thing ever invented.

Flash is old…not yet dead, Adobe needs to do better than this if they want to save Flash.

So now is Adobe vs Apple vs Google, right ?

They are all important , that’s the problem , no one wants to step down and negotiate a good deal for the User sake.

Who loose are the user and also the developers, dealing with this mess.

You know the end of the story…

Hopefully he doesn’t, at least he can avoid all the Google PR…

This Titanium thing looks great ! Go guys, go for it !

LOL +1

Flash is the workhorse of the web, despite all of its flaws. Either 75% of interactive web content designers are gullible for choosing flash or you are for making such a comment.

An AIR app runs out of the box on linux/mac and windows. Not many platforms can do that buddy!!
Mobile apps in AIR would definitely require some UI adjustments but little else, as the underlying UI libraries would stay the same! Definitely not the kind of nightmare you have to face while trying to run a single java code base on a half dozen devices.

I gotta say that flash as a whole is definitely not stable and alot of websites problems come from poorly written flash scripts so I believe alot of mobile companies (apple, MS, etc) are starting to use the next best alternative, that is the html5.. Let’s just see how this AIR expedition plays out. http://bit.ly/scrutinizing-flash-on-idevices

So Adobe thinks its going to get its AIR runtime on all phones so we can write apps once for all platforms?

Really?

For a start, flash itself is still not available on all platforms (no not just iphone).

Secondly, wasn’t this what java was meant to do?

Thirdly, the write once, deploy everywhere ideal has never really worked. I can see there will be differences in the runtime between phones whether by limitations or bugs.

If and when they do launch their iPhone, iPod or even iPad app lets hope they dont forget to send me some promo codes to distribute to the http://www.appgiveaway.com community ;-)

It’s gonna start getting real lonely for iPhone / iPad users…

I disagree, if anything this simplify things for us developers who now can write the code once and deploy everywhere. Granted that it will be more like write once debug everywhere, then deploy everywhere. This is a proven approach for development of apps.

And as far as Flash being dead. Just look at the jobs trends.

http://www.indeed.com/trendgraph/jobgraph.png?q=flex%2C+iphone%2C+xcode%2C+flash

Numbers don’t lie, the number of developers requested with Flash/ActionScript skill is growing and more and more Enterprise applications are being developed on Flex.

If it’s dead – then it’s dead like one of those evil Zombies that breath fire and spit nails and enjoy a nice red Apple from time to time…

I love how that chart seems to indicate that “Smartphones without Flash” will somehow decline from now til 2012.

Unless Apple changes their mind and puts Flash on the iPhone, I’d say that chart is bunk. ;-)

Thanks all – we have some super exciting announcements planned for our iPhone, Android, iPad, PC, Mac, and Linux products. Simply put, we’ll outperform – and use a fraction of the memory – of any other alternative out there… Plus, we include all the ‘native’ functions of each platform. We map 1:1 to low-level APIs (http://www.appcelerator.com/products/native-iphone-android-development/)

We’re also open source and work with Javascript (mobile), Python, Ruby, and php (desktop).

One more thing – Titanium is FREE.

Cheers,

Scott Schwarzhoff
Appcelerator, Inc.

I see the headlines already: “Adobe climb down since CK never liked AIR that much.”

Ever used TweetDeck? Who cares if it does not ‘feel like a desktop app’ if it does what millions of users expect it to? To not ‘feel like a desktop app’ is a small price to pay for cross platform support, and if Adobe can pull the same off for mobile then hats off to them.

Did you even *read* the article?

“Not only that, but the same apps created with Flash developer tools will be exportable as iPhone apps. Adobe wants developers to create their apps using its developer tools and then output them as AIR apps for Android and Blackberry phones, native iPhone apps, or Flash apps on the Web.”

You’re welcome.

So much for Adobe being lazy. I want the whole Internet, not just the Apple approved version.

Runtimes becoming obsolete? Not a chance. Browser itself is a “HTML runtime”

But I agree with you. Adobe needs to build a browser with Flash, then we’ll see.

I gotta say that flash as a whole is definitely not stable and alot of websites problems come from poorly written flash scripts so I believe alot of mobile companies (apple, MS, etc) are starting to use the next best alternative, that is the html5.. Let’s just see how AIR plays out. http://bit.ly/scrutinizing-flash-on-idevices

1) There are likely to be some delays in accessing new APIs, but hopefully not too long since Adobe is working directly with the smartphone teams (with the exception of Apple).

2) Flash Player 10.1 is supposed to be using hardware acceleration and optimized for devices so that it doesn’t take up much CPU and I imagine AIR will be the same. That said, it will likely still run slowly than a native application. For many applications the speed difference won’t matter, but don’t expect any cutting edge 3D games to be using AIR.

3) Have you ever built an AIR application? You add an XML configuration file and then compile. It’s really not that hard. However, I imagine there will still be some optimizations needed for the different screen sizes. Still a lot easier than porting the application to a whole different language and environment.

4) I don’t think AIR on the desktop has been a huge success, but I don’t think it’s been a failure, since there are still new AIR applications coming out all the time. Still on mobile, I will it will be a success because of the ease of porting applications to different devices.

i see you’re quite the call girl

TO ALL THE DEVELOPERS :
if you want APPs portability go and try TITANIUM by APPCELERATOR :

1) It’s FREE !
2) It performs !
3) It’ s OpenSource !
4) It’ available TODAY !

still need AIR ? NO !
still need Flash ? NO !

Don’t waste your money and time, be the leaders of tomorrow not the followers !

Disclaimer : I have no relationship with this guys, I just think that they are doing a great job.

Write Once Run Anywhere? Sounds a lot like the idea behind Java and other subsequent runtimes. Plus isn’t J2ME already installed on most of the non-Iphone devices out there?
From my understanding Flash has a lot of vulnerabilities and installing it to run natively or even as a browser plug-ins on mobile devices might just be the start of a huge influx of mobile hacks.
In short sight it seems like it’s a great idea for all of the flash developers out there but this might have an unfortunate effect on consumers in the not too distant future.

A shout out to “Dave the Apple Fan Boy” who IMO does an excellent job of presenting valid flaws with Adobe’s trojan “write once, deploy everywhere” promise. I’m echoing them because i think they need to be repeated.

1) They need to ensure support and updates for any underling OS (mobile and desktop) with all the different native APIs, SDks and HD Specs.
Expect a huge delay : iPhone is out since 3 years..Android 2 years…Flash is still a promise.
What will happen with iPhone OS 4.0 and Android 3.0, will the developer need to wait Adobe to update the Flash/Air runtime/SDK to support the new features and changes….Months….Years ?

2)Performances…..runtime = slow, cpu intensive and battery drain…. (my two cents>>>CPU Hog always and forever!)

3) The process is mad : a dev need to design and build an iPhone App in Adobe CS, then convert it to AIR to make it compatible with Android and Windows Mobile ???

4)AIR has failed in the desktop , why should it succeed in the mobile space ?Maybe yes, maybe not, sure there is not a good score if you look at the past.

I’m afraid the graph indicates that as the number of smartphones continues to rise, so will the percentage of those devices with Flash Player support.

If Apple becomes the only smartphone manufacturer which does not support flash, then you are correct, the chart is bunk, as that number should read a much higher percentage.

Unless you assume Apple will have the most number of smartphone devices in the market, in that case you are smoking crack, and some bad batch.

Surely HTML5 could be equally abused, no? Bad coding is bad coding, regardless of platform.

Uh java does this already. Write once run anywhere with a java vm. However app writers + phone O/S companies screw it up with proprietary J2ME extensions for each phone.

Too little, too late. RIP Flash.

Flash is great, too! I build apps in Flash, AIR, .Net and Java and I get the most enjoyment while building in AIR. I like the IDE and the language (AS3). If I need to build an app and the client doesn’t care about the platform, I build in AIR. The “write once, run anywhere” slogan sounds good, but it never works. You will always need to tweak/optimize your apps to work on different platforms. It’s true that the Flash player is at times resource intensive and maybe even buggy, but what electronic device isn’t buggy at times? Anyone who thinks that these tech companies will ever work together for the user/developer needs to pass whatever they’re smoking becuase I just don’t believe it. Do you really think they’re sitting around thinking about how to make things work better for us? Money is the main motivator.

@Dave the Apple Sycophant: Dude… are you for real?

Wow, this is truly amazing dude. Good stuff for sure.

Jess
http://www.isp-logging.net.tc

No, because most uses of Flash are simply video feeds. If it’s the platform maker that writes the video player, it will perform well – unlike many Flash based video players (which is really more the fault of the Flash engine).

DO NOT WANT

If Adobe would be willing to port Flash using Cocoa they would have access to the API’s they need to make it an order of magnitude more efficiently. If they knew how to code properly Flash wouldn’t be the cause of the majority of Mac application crashes. If Adobe wasn’t developmentally stagnent they would innovate and provide a quality product. Flash is just on top, it isn’t good by any means.

If Flash were open source this just wouldn’t be an issue.

Spoken like someone who is truly ignorant of the technologies they are talking about. Runtimes are no more obsolete nor in danger of becoming so than programming itself. One has only to look at the popular runtimes that exist on the average computer (.NET, Java, AIR) and even the simple interpreters that aren’t going anywhere (perl, ruby, python, powershell) and you’ll see that runtimes aren’t going anywhere. You’ve presented the mobile devices world as though it were some sort of confusing mess and a nightmare for a runtime provider to manage – well that is completely incorrect. In fact only a handful of chips and operating systems worth supporting exist and Adobe is without question up to the task of deploying to all of them. Furthermore, you have obviously never seen “Flex Builder” which is an Eclipse based development environment released by Adobe for developing and deploying Flex and AIR applications. Yes that’s correct – a true and worthy development environment for building RIA, and AIR Applications exists in production form TODAY. Adobe proposes to extend that slightly to compile iPhone apps as well ( it ALREADY does AIR apps of course ). This isn’t crazy or unnatural as many C++ developers are familiar with multi-target compilation. The only reason it’s necessary however is because Apple still refuses to allow people to buy iPhone software from anyone but Apple. Betting against Adobe here is a mistake. People have been using Flash since before the .com boom. Flash has completely revolutionized the way people are able to use video on the internet, and HTML5 just isn’t up to solving the same problems (Adaptive Streaming for example). The only true thing Adobe has to be concerned with is Silverlight. While still not as widely adopted nor nearly as stable, Microsoft has the financial capability to keep on pushing for wider adoption and as we’ve seen with Bing – are willing to pay top dollar for exclusivity.

It seems as if Adobe is the one digging in their heels at not wanting to open source Flash; Might it be because they lose strict control over its development and monetization? F-Bomb was right on that at the end of the day, it’s not really about crying fowl but about making money and keeping control. I agree someone is smoking some potent stuff in the pipe. I hope Apple continues to hold out on allowing any buggy software that compromises or negatively impacts the user’s experience on the devices they spend millions to perfect. 3 billion downloads, 140K apps+ and more than 75 million iPhone/iTouch devices sold to date, i don’t think users of iPhone/iTouch are hurting much due to lack of Flash.

HTML 5 can’t set up its own cookies (disregarding the host browser preference), be used to access anything the browser itself doesn’t have permission to, or run in a separate process.

Joel, meet Flag564. He prognosticated on Digg for a *year* that the iPhone would be an utter failure.

http://digg.com/users/flag564/history

He was convinced it would fail miserably.

He also predicted the Zune would wipe the iPod off the face of the earth.

If you honestly think this is somehow going to change things with the iPhone, I think you need to look at the sales growth of the iPhone and the inability of anyone to really compete against it (even *with* Flash).

Please, acquaint yourself with the numbers, and the history of (most) Apple products, and the ability Apple has to enrapt the public.

Java is superior -

The Facebook app on my iPhone crashes daily. Man, apple software sucks….

Facebook app has always worked fine on my iphone 3GS, 3G and ipod touch 1st gen

Whoa, where did you get that 7 million Flash plugin downloads from iPhone data?

My app will allow Flash and Java enabled browsing on the iPhone, so that number is very interesting to me.

Bad code is always bad code, but on flash there just isn’t good code. That’s the whole problem.

Flash CS5 will have one over Titanium for iPhone – Flash won’t require a Mac to compile, test and create the final app.

From Appcelerator Support:
http://support.appcelerator.net/discussions/titanium-mobile-discussion/1661-just-to-be-clear-no-iphone-simulator-on-pc-side-right

From Adobe’s Forums:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/502790?tstart=0

There’s one thing that this article or responses to this article fails to mention and that is you don’t have to develop in Flash to run your app in Adobe Air

if your development environment is Html/JavaScript/Ajax you can Use Adobe Air to move your application to the desktop (and soon to Mobile) much the same concept as Google Gears

So is the flash discussion relevant here ?

I think this is wonderful news. The adobe air platform is my most used widget platform on the desktop. For me the two apps I use the most are TweetDeck and ExactPrice (real time gold, silver, and platinum spot price checking).

Though, I’m not sure how tweetdeck would work on a mobile phone. I guess the single column function would be best.

Great. Hurray for HTML5. If i don’t give permission for my browser to do something, I don’t want anything in it to have those permissions.

Umm.. Why? I don’t miss flash on my iPhone, I don’t want it on my iPhone. Actually, I don’t even want it on my Windows desktop or Ubuntu desktop. I use them on the desktop because I am forced to use them to watch videos or listen to a sound clip. I’m glad Youtube is giving me option to view videos in HTML5.

Watching websites slowly going over to HTML5 and avoid flash in its entirety would be much more painful for Adobe but very interesting to watch.

At the beginning it was fun. Now that is slows down my browser and locks it up, I say yes, they are gullible for choosing flash.

I have seen a lot of interactive websites, that uses absolutely no flash yet feels more natural than flash developers ever designed.

Here’s what a lot of people are failing to mention.

Titanium isn’t turning your app into native iPhone code. Your HTML and Javascript are in plain text. It’s the Titanium API and the WebKit instance in its runtime that are iPhone native and running your HTML/Javascript-based app. It gets packaged up neatly in a format Apple likes, and you’ve got an app you can potentially get through the App Store approval process.

This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It’s how PhoneGap does it as well. You can also write Adobe AIR apps in HTML/Javascript and never have to mess with MXML, Flash, or Actionscript.

Now the advantage of Adobe is that you’ll be able to generate honest-to-goodness native iPhone code, but only if your code is pure Actionscript. Correct me if I’m wrong, but as far as I’ve seen, Adobe is saying that their packager will translate Flash and Flex apps that are pure AS3, but it will not translate AIR apps that are HTML/Javascript.

Basically, right now, you have to decide which platforms you want to target, what capabilities you need, and then really dig into each option so you can determine whether it can provide that and whether you can ramp up in a reasonable time.

Doing a “fart button” app in Titanium is almost as easy as “Hello World”. But doing a mobile mail client may require creating a hybrid app where Titanium is the presentation layer, but the heavy lifting is done by a proxy server.

Flash 10.1 is just around the corner. I doubt Apple will adjust to allow flash content… to pig headed. Rather, we’ll see all those young customers moving to flash enabled mobile devices. Why? They won’t be able to get their new game in the iPhone.

Game development drives tech innovation.

The price of owning the new unlocked devices may even come into play. I’ve noticed a trend toward reduce-recycle-reuse. The market is becoming more cost concious. It’s now cool to save money.

Adobe have always been poor at making security in their apps so can easily imagine HTML5 being much more secure to use. But you are you are right, everything can be abused if not used correctly.

you are on the point. lol

OK all things are good, but at least tell me exact when actual release of AIR is come that support the Android?

Thnaks