Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?
Erick Schonfeld
Feb 20, 2009

Update: Last.fm vehemently denies this rumor. See below.

That leaked U2 album is causing all sorts of trouble. The unreleased album, which is due out on March 3, found its way onto BitTorrent and was downloaded hundreds of thousands of times. That, apparently, sent music industry lawyers over at the Recording Industry Association of America into a fit. As a result, word is going around that the RIAA asked social music service Last.fm for data about its user’s listening habits to find people with unreleased tracks on their computers. And Last.fm, which is owned by CBS, actually handed the data over to the RIAA, according to a tip we received:

I heard from an irate friend who works at CBS that last.fm recently provided the RIAA with a giant dump of user data to track down people who are scrobbling unreleased tracks. As word spread numerous employees at last.fm were up in arms because the data collected (a) can be used to identify individuals and (b) will likely be shared with 3rd parties that have relationships with the RIAA.

Supposedly, the operations team which handed over the data in the first place weren’t told the true purpose for the transfer or who was getting the data until after the fact, and only when they had to help with some corrupted data. It sounds like it was more of a corporate decision. I’ve contacted both CBS and the RIAA. Most of the Last.fm team is in London, where the weekend has already started. For now Last.fm says: “To our knowledge, no data has been made available to RIAA.” (The RIAA declined to comment).

Setting aside what actually happened to the data, and assuming this rumor is true, why would the RIAA target Last.fm? It wasn’t streaming the U2 album, and it is not an illegal download service. But Last.fm has millions of users who are heavy music consumers, and many of them download Last.fm’s Scrobbler software which keeps track of every single song you listen to on your computer, no matter which music player you use. In other words, it captures tracks played from illegal BitTorrent downloads just as easily as from iTunes.

Last.fm members knowingly share what they are listening to with the rest of the Last.fm community, and in return receive social recommendations of music they might like. That is the whole point of the service. And Last.fm’s privacy policy does clearly state:

. . . your record collection (including your skipping history) may be viewed by all other users of Last.fm (who may include other organisations or representatives of other organisations who have registered as Last.fm users) and that they may easily associate this information with your Last.fm username.

But most probably never even considered it a possibility that individually identifiable information about their listening habits (legal, illegal, or otherwise) could be handed over to an organization known for taking consumers to court for file-sharing. What makes this even more egregious is that it appears to be absent any legal precedent (such as a pending lawsuit) for which Last.fm could at least hide behind as an excuse.

Incidents like this highlight how the social Web can sometimes bite back if you are not careful. It also raises the issue of who owns all of this data about you and what they can do with it. (The same issue that caused Facebook to backtrack on recent changes to its data policy). Unfortunately, it’s come down to this: you really shouldn’t share any data on the Web you wouldn’t feel comfortable seeing in a court of law.

(Please contact us at tips [at] techcrunch if you have more information about this).

Update: Some more denials from Last.FMers, including one of the co-founders, Richard Jones, in comments, who says this story is “utter nonsense and totally untrue,” and another one from Russ Garrett, a systems architect.

Update 2 (2/21/09): There are a lot of angry questions being raised about this post in comments and elsewhere. Lots of demands for retractions and some people questioning the timing of the post late on Friday night.

First, on the timing. The reason this story was posted so late was because I had contacted a Last.fm spokesperson in the U.S. earlier in the day who promised me a response, and I decided to wait for it. Several hours passed, with assurances that a statement was being prepared. So I was a little surprised when it was only one sentence:

To our knowledge, no data has been made available to RIAA.

That statement is hardly a categorical denial. It leaves open all sorts of holes. Was the data collected internally, but never actually handed over? Was it made available to a specific record label or group of record labels, perhaps at the request of the RIAA. Or did the whole thing never happen? I asked for clarification, but again was referred to the single vague statement. After I posted, I again contacted the spokesperson to see if she had any further comment she would like to make. She didn’t.

Soon after I posted, however, plenty of unofficial but heartfelt denial came from Last.fm staffers in London, two of which I linked to last night in the update above. The one from Russ Garrett, in particular, raised even more questions. His denial starts out unequivocal, but then he adds a squishy disclaimer:

I’d like to issue a full and categorical denial of this. We’ve never had any request for such data by anyone, and if we did we wouldn’t consent to it.

Of course we work with the major labels and provide them with broad statistics, as we would with any other label, but we’d never personally identify our users to a third party – that goes against everything we stand for.

Hmm, so could the RIAA or a record label use the data to identify people? I never suggested that it was Last.fm that was singling out individuals listening to unreleased tracks. The issue is whether the RIAA or any of its member companies are trying to do so and whether or not Last.fm is helping them.

As Garrett points out, Last.fm shares aggregate listening data with the labels. Are there any unique identifiers associated with this data that could lead back to an individual, despite any precautions Last.fm might take? (It wouldn’t be unprecedented—remember that leaked AOL search data a few years ago?) I sent Garrett an email about 5 hours ago asking him some of these questions.

From the very beginning, I’ve presented this story for what it is: a rumor. Despite my attempts to corroborate it and the subsequent detail I’ve been able to gather, I still don’t have enough information to determine whether it is absolutely true. But I still don’t have enough information to determine that it is absolutely false either. What I do have are a lot of unanswered questions about how exactly Last.fm shares user data with the record industry.

Update 3 (2/22/09): Garrett got back to me. He responds:

The data we make available to labels is aggregate data about their artists – it’s a slightly more detailed version of what you see on the site. We release no data linking users and plays to any third parties.

The only data we provide to labels (in addition to the data publicly available on their artist pages) are historical graphs of listeners and plays. There’s no way to link these to individual users.

If a label was trying to work out who’s been listening to their leaked track, the closest they can get would be to look at the publicly-available listeners on the music pages. I would doubt that would be enough evidence to convict someone, and users can opt out of being displayed there in their settings.

Update 4 (2/23/09): Last.fm co-founder Richard Jones expands on his denial in comments with an official post on the Last.fm blog. He also adds this:

We never share personally identifiable data such as email and IP addresses. The only type of data we make available to labels and artists, other than what you see on the site, is aggregate data of listeners and number of plays.

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  • Johnny

    I never knew they were owned by CBS. It’s time to uninstall their client if this is true.

  • rgbiuwri

    i dont understand what the big deal is. last.fm handed data over to the music owners (the labels, or in this case, reworded as the riaa). wheres the problem?

  • http://smartbabesaresexy.blogspot.com Smart Babes are Sexy Blog

    Unbelievable if true.

    First the Facebook fiasco and now this.

    When will there be a company that says enough is enough?

    Anjali Sen

  • http://www.dailyhack.net Charlie Flowers

    Last.fm’s email inbox is probably jam-packed with messages from irate users, right about now! I know one of them would be from me, if I was a user.

  • rgbiuwri

    “But most probably never even considered it a possibility that individually identifiable information about their listening habits (legal, illegal, or otherwise) could be handed over to an organization known for taking consumers to court for file-sharing.

  • rgbiuwri

    and if you didnt know that the riaa owns the music, then i suggest you look it up before replying to my comment.

  • http://www.celebguides.com Nick Gerz

    If users are downloading and scrobbling illegal downloads you can’t blame the RIAA for wanting to act, and for Last.fm to want to protect key relationships with the labels.

    But this will be an absolute PR disaster for Last.fm if proven true. I’m sure it will result in mass-uninstallations of their software.

  • rgbiuwri

    also the riaa most likely has a contract with last.fm that says they can look at their own musics data if they want to.

    once again, techcrunch has a slow news day.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people//3406485 fb3406485

    This is exactly why I avoid putting spybot social services on my computer. No one needs to know what I am/am not doing.

  • me

    What’s the problem? If they hadn’t given them the data, the RIAA could have just went to their site and gotten it themselves, it’s not hidden in any way. Looks like a couple people are listening to the album right now (http://www.last.fm/music/U2/_/No+Line+on+the+Horizon/+listeners).

  • ryan

    Please last.fm say it is not so!

  • Jehosephat

    let’s bold the phhrase “assuming this rumor is true,” shall we?

  • Neno Brown

    If so, there will be blood on the dance floor.

  • Rob

    Looking at LaLa.com’s privacy policy, it looks like they reserve the right to basically do the same thing. Disturbing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ryan_Douthit/623454561 Ryan Douthit

    Hmm, conspiracy theories start: Was the U2 album released “accidentally” so the RIAA could search out users that had the unauthorized album on their drives? It’s one thing to be storing Britney Spears tracks from 10 years ago, another to have an album with tracks that *nobody* should have yet. Just tossing the possibility out there…

  • Neb

    If this is true I will immediately delete my Last.fm account. I have been a Scrobbler user since 2004.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joseph_Stevens/580110056 Joseph Stevens

    I’m not sure how this is going to help the RIAA because the data collected and displayed is track name and artist. I’m guessing they will need to prove that the users were listening to the actual leaked track and not another track that has changed meta data that corresponds with the new albums. I know it sounds silly but surly they would have to have hard evidence?

  • Agile Cyborg

    The thieves are wrecking the net. Period.

    If people were responsible in much larger numbers and behaved as they do at their local retailer bullshit like this would be a rare occurrence.

  • Bob Jones

    As Last.fm is based in the U.K., their privacy policy says the data controller is in London, could this fall foul of the British Data Protection Act? Their privacy policy seems to allow for this … but who knows.

  • http://meneame.net/story/last.fm-podria-haber-entregado-riaa-datos-usuarios-eng meneame.net

    Last.fm podría haber entregado a la RIAA datos de sus usuarios [ENG]…

    En TechCrunch reportan que a raiz de la filtración a la red de último trabajo del grupo musical U2, que no saldrá a la venta hasta Marzo, Last.fm habría entregado, a través de su propietaria, CBS, datos de sus usuarios a la RIAA. Entre dichos dato…

  • Jason

    Looking at the Last.fm data should not be able to incriminate anyone. They’re ignoring that promotional press copies of the album *have* in fact been created and distributed. I just read a review of the albumy esterday on Stereogum. It’s possible that some of these reviewers have ripped the album to their computer so they could listen to it on their iPod. It’s also possible these people use Last.fm.

    The RIAA needs to suck it. I am so tired of these people. I can’t believe we’re going on a decade of this BS now.

  • swag

    LOL. All these chumps want to share their info and then find it unfathomable when this public info falls into “the wrong hands”.

    You get what you deserve, folks.

  • annoyingmouse

    There’s one problem here that I don’t quite understand. This ISN’T the way last.fm works. Last.fm only scrobbles the details of the tags on your files and has no real way of knowing if what you’re actually listening to. Just because your last.fm page shows U2 doesn’t mean you were actually listening to that, it just means you were listening to a track where the field for artist in your tag says “U2″.

  • http://www.sublime.org Robin Barooah

    I don’t listen to illegal downloaded music, however, I am immediately removing LastFM from my computer because of this.

    Why? Because the RIAA is totally untrustworthy, and has demonstrated that it will use legal bullying to try to get people to ‘settle’ rather than be bankrupted by defending themselves from an accusation in court.

    Who is to say that the scrobbler data is accurate?

    This is not a case of ‘if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear’. At the very least, you risk having to defend yourself against a false accusation.

  • Jason

    right. and this is why they can have fun actually trying to sue any of these people. This won’t hold up in court.

  • josh

    Exactly this.

  • http://www.triskele.com/2009/02/20/so-how-much-do-you-trust-riaas-promise-to-reign-in-its-rabid-lawyers So, How Much Do You Trust RIAA’s Promise to Reign In Its Rabid Lawyers?

    [...] think we’ll find out soon, if this blurb at TechCrunch is to be believed: That leaked U2 album is causing all sorts of trouble. The [...]

  • http://sadclownrep.com/?p=2394 Teatro Triste del Clown » Blog Archive » Last.fm and RIAA?

    [...] is an unconfirmed report that the Last.FM is handing over user data to the RIAA. Now, I’m not a subscriber to Last.fm, so this doesn’t effect me personally, but it is [...]

  • josh

    So, you boycott last.fm/CBS for giving out public information, but you’re still going to support the RIAA by buying music. If you don’t like CBS then fine, but I don’t think you’re affecting the RIAA in anyway.

  • J Miller

    While I tend to listen to my own media, I don’t like the idea that a great social network like Last.FM (CBS) would potentially deliver my listening habits to the RIAA. That just wrong. As of now, Last.FM is removed from my PC, account deleted. The risk / reward is not worth it.

    Switching entirely to streamed media like Pandora. There I know I am only listening to their music.

  • Pichu0102

    Last.FM also scrobbles a fingerprint of the tracks you play. If or if not this is by default on their client, I can’t remember.

  • Derry Quinn

    The new album is already out here in Ireland, just like all U2 albums are released early here.

    Hardly a “leak” now is it :)

  • lazlo

    Wow, I’m deleting my Last.Fm account on principle alone

  • Jason

    One thing that’s ludicrous about this is it shows just how short-sighted the RIAA has been for years. Why knee-cap a service that actually enables people to learn about new music and helps PROMOTE the artists you portend to represent, in a way that’s completely legal and actually helps sales? Why knee-cap a service that allows you to collect valuable data about the popularity of artists that you could use to funnel marketing budgets? Stupid.

    And Last.fm is pretty dumb too if they actually did hand over the data. I just don’t know what to make of it.

  • cennis

    hmmmm…bye bye lastFM and scrobbling on Amarok. I will miss ye.

  • Factchecking? What?

    “Word is going round” that Techcrunch make shit up based on rumour, don’t wait to substantiate it officially, and just go ahead and post regardless. No confirmation of this, but I’m going to place it here as news anyway, because the pageviews it’ll get will impress our advertisers. We’re proper journalists aren’t we? None of this is going to make the idea that bloggers should be taken seriously at all laughable is it? And, oh look, that brown bag of Myspace money has just arrived, brilliant! La la la, I’m a moron.

  • http://www.travel-china.net Hainan

    I think this is not a big deal, even if the ownership changes in google I will use their services anyway, will you not?

  • EH

    i suggest you look up whether the riaa owns *anything*.

  • James Wheare

    No, incidents like this highlight how you amateurs can take a source and quote it without any fact checking, due diligence, or journalistic integrity.

    Do you event *want* to be taken seriously?

  • Ryan

    So what? There is nothing they can do about this that will hold up in court. I can tag my tracks however I like, so if say a Metallica track that I purchased legally is tagged with U2 info, then that’s my defense and its their words against mine.

    As a Lastfm user, this is shitty beyond belief, and I will have to heavily consider not using their product anymore if true. But no users will get in trouble for this.

  • Agile Cyborg

    You are a strange. Why not comment on the fucking article rather than smacking the rag.

  • http://sevensons.org/2009/02/the-lastfm-straw/ The Last.fm Straw | Seven Sons

    [...] I liked this service. But if it turns out that Last.fm actually did hand out data then I’m out of there like shit through a goose. Not because I listened to an illegal copy of [...]

  • James Wheare

    My comment on the article is this bozo is full of shit. End of story.

  • http://www.last.fm/user/Russ Russ Garrett

    I work for Last.fm.

    This has not happened. This is a complete lie, and we’d never do such a thing.

    I work in the operations and data teams at Last.fm – if something like this had happened, I’d know about it.

    I’d love to know how Techcrunch came across this baseless, unsubstantiated accusation and decided to publish it as news.

  • aeeki

    http://www.last.fm/forum/21713/_/506518/_/8660996

    “I’d like to issue a full and categorical denial of this. We’ve never had any such request for such data by anyone, and if we did we wouldn’t consent to it.

    Of course we work with the major labels and provide them with broad statistics, as we would with any other label, but we’d never personally identify our users to a third party – that goes against everything we stand for.

    As far as I’m concerned Techcrunch appear to have made this whole story up.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andras_Ionut/606147836 Andras Ionut

    Indeed. Unbelievable if true.

  • tom

    *giggles*

  • mister slim

    There are plenty of ways to buy music without supporting the RIAA.

  • tom

    are you new to the planet?

  • http://www.sinch.net Dan

    The whole point of services like Last.fm is to make your listening habits public and shareable with other people. You’re willfully uploading this data to a public website and then freaking out when the RIAA gets their hands on it?

    There are a lot of reasons to not like the RIAA but people are way overreacting about this. Just like everyone totally overreacted to the Facebook TOS change. If you don’t want people to have information about you, don’t put it on the internet and share it with a whole bunch of other people.

  • http://www.cennydd.co.uk Cennydd

    Worse, you boycott a successful startup/web business because TC writes an accusatory article? last.fm have already denied it, less than half an hour after this article hit (pretty impressive since it’s gone midnight UK time).

    What happened to ‘innocent until proven guilty’?

  • http://www.last.fm/user/RJ RJ

    Hi from Last.fm, I’m one of the founders (and the original founder of audioscrobbler, the music tracking plugin).

    I’m not going to write much right now because i’m rather pissed off this article was published, except to say that this is utter nonsense and totally untrue.

    As far as I can tell, the author of this article got a “tip” from *one* person and decided to make a story out of it. Techcrunch is full of shit, film at 11.

  • Matthew

    Wait? The new U2 is out there? Sweet. I’m going to go download for free. Thanks CBS/RIAA!

  • tom

    it appears the RIAA has found out that one of their member companies has an even better spyware base than the ISPs they are trying to strong-arm!

  • Henry

    The U2 album was up for digital album on an Australian site before it actually got on bittorrent.

    So some people have the album legitimently and some people downloaded it off bt.

    Suppose last.fm did hand over the data…How is the RIAA going to know who’s who when they have a look at the last.fm data?

  • Nunya

    Nope Joseph, the RIAA doesn’t need any evidence at all. They just point the finger at you and the courts find you guilty. These people twist and bend the law to their own corporate greed. Spend about 30 minutes to do a google on ‘RIAA Lawsuit Victims’ and see what these scumbags are capable of.

    And I don’t condone copyright infringement, but the RIAA is going along the lines of the Spanish Inquisition!

  • http://geraniumkisses.wordpress.com/2009/02/20/lastfm-privacy-u2-the-riaa-and-you/ Last.fm, Privacy, U2, the RIAA, and You « Geranium Kisses

    [...] Privacy, U2, the RIAA, and You By gypsyrob The food people at TechCrunch ask: Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data to the [...]

  • Veve N

    they HAVE to say,that it is like you said :-((

  • http://architechies.com Brent Royal-Gordon

    It’s amateur hour at TechCrunch. Last.fm has stated unequivocally that they didn’t hand over any data. I like reading tech blogs, but they really need to stop this sort of baseless speculation and actually check their facts.

    So, how long will it take for you guys to post a retraction?

  • simplepie

    Finally a post that mentions “principles”.

  • http://theclick.us/?p=3444 Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? | The Click

    [...] Check it out here. [...]

  • N

    I think this is a good point, Joseph. If it goes as far as court evidence, this information alone probably couldn’t convict, but it could point toward where they could get more evidence.

  • pyert

    Oh come on. It’s the internet. Have we learned nothing in the past few years of social networking. Your data isn’t sound or protected. To me that’s the nature of social networking. If you are playing illegally obtained songs, don’t scrobble them! Common sense to me. If it were apple spying on what you’re playing in iTunes, that’s one issue. But songs you are intentionally scrobbling? You know it’s monitored. That’s what you signed up and enabled the client for!

  • AllMediaConsultant

    “Unfortunately, it’s come down to this: you really shouldn’t share any data on the Web you wouldn’t feel comfortable seeing in a court of law.”

    Are you for real? It’s no wonder TechCrunch’s credibility has been taking such a shit-kicking lately.

    How about “it comes down to this: DON’T STEAL!” and if you’re stupid enough to scrobble music you’ve obtained illegally, then you’re definitely a candidate for the Darwin Awards.

    When are people going to give their indulged ritalin-soaked heads a shake that theft is theft, regardless of your opinions of various aspects of the music industry.

    I don’t have a very positive view of the airline industry, but I can’t sneak onto a flight without a ticket; I can’t walk into a bank and just grab some money and walk out – in both cases, theft is prevented because of proper security and people realize they can’t get away with it because they will be prosecuted and thrown in jail.

    The RIAA’s prosecutorial crusade finally brought the same reality check to music thieves and made people realize that just because ‘everyone was doing it’ didn’t make it ok. Remember what happened because of similarly twisted ‘crowdthink’ 70 years ago?

    I agree with consumers who feel they shouldn’t have to pay multiple times for a song they’ve legally paid for via download to be able to burn it to a CD or an iPod or other device so that they can access it from whatever platform they wish to use.

    In the ‘freemium’ environment of the Internet, and the new economic reality, people are going to have to get a grip on the fact that it costs money to create content, and that new models will need to evolve to modularize, distribute and monetize that IP along the lines of how the iTunes store made weaning off illegal torrent downloads less painful, along with the fact that music thieves were being prosecuted.

    Someday the light bulb will go on that ‘just because it’s on the Internet, doesn’t make it ok’ whether it be stolen music, libelous or defamatory information, or inciting hate. Real word laws apply to real word actions, whether online or not.

    And if last.fm has handed information about scrobbles that contain an obviously stolen ‘pre-release’, whether it be U2, or an new artist at your neighborhood coffee shop struggling to make a living, then they should be commended for standing up for the rights of the people whose creative intellectual property allows last.fm to grab their own piece of the music pie chart by constructing a legal ‘sharing’ model for its users.

    If you had also done your homework, you would have discovered that Universal Australia, a division of U2′s label, Universal Music Group, accidentally offered the album for sale on its own digital download site for a couple of hours earlier this week — long enough for plenty of copies to get out the door and illegally make their way into the file-’sharing’ channels.

    Think of it this way, how long do you think you’d be able to afford an Internet connection to download any music or anything else if the place you (or your parents) work at had people coming in and stealing the content, products or services that pay the income that underwrites your connection, and then copied it for free for friends?

    This kind of theft hurts real people, with real families, and real mouths to feed, especially at lower income jobs at the bottom of the trickle-down food chain that are usually the first to get axed.

    And it’s time whimpering social network butterflies get over their narcissistic flutterings of whether their last SBD turned into a more disastrous result, and realize that the kind of social model offered by last.fm is a privilege, not a right, courtesy of the music industry and the flesh and blood people who were creative enough to compose and/or perform the original content.

    Grow the fuck up already.

  • Karen

    Wait….this is a report of a second-hand rumour? Not that I trust the RIAA at all, but this isn’t really news yet. It’s a rumour about a rumour.

    This smells of urban legend…”A friend of a friend told me”.

  • DM

    I notice the silence from Techcrunch is deafening bearing in mind last.fm’s posts above. Won’t bother reading Techcrunch anymore as I’ve got better things to do than read made-up stories. There are comics for that…
    Hope last.fm take legal action against them as it must have already lost them users who haven’t bothered to check facts first.

  • TJ

    rgbiuwri either works for a music label or the riaa…

  • http://twitter.com/mstate matt

    This does it for me, I’m uninstalling it from my computer.

  • TechCrunch Blows

    techcrunch posting a retraction? that would be the day. instead they prefer to ‘strikeout’ their previous false statements so everyone can read the original rumor and continue speculations.

    last.fm in NO way has done this – one of the founders has already posted a comment above and last.fm has issued a freaking statement. give me a break.

  • http://twitter.com/mstate matt

    Actually I’m holding off for now. There is a staff response to the article on the last.fm forum:
    http://www.last.fm/forum/21713/_/506518/1#f8660996

  • http://greatseth.com Seth Thomas Rasmussen

    This is just karma. Listen to U2 and you get what you deserve.

  • uuhhh

    the last time I checked your data is made available just by being a Last.fm user ? so TC is semi-wrong but the point is moot – obviously, RIAA has access to anyone with this u2 song regardless of tag/metadata changes.

    When you sign up for services your sign away your right to own your data – get used to it.

  • http://wheatus.com wheatus

    The RIAA doesn’t own anything….You don’t know what you are talking bout and you should stop talking. You have misidentified a congressional lobbying organization, that sometimes represents content rights owners, with content creators….that is both ignorant and very disturbing and it tells me that you are likely a fascist, or a raging idiot…. prove me wrong.

    brendan b brown
    wheatus.com

  • http://eatyourgreens.org.uk Jim O’Donnell

    “But most probably never even considered it a possibility that individually identifiable information about their listening habits (legal, illegal, or otherwise) could be handed over to an organization known for taking consumers to court for file-sharing.” Presumably because information that identifies you, as an individual, is protected by the Data Protection Act and may not be shared with third parties without your consent?

  • oh tom

    No he’s not, but you may well be. Nice post, Fastchecking..

  • http://wheatus.com wheatus

    You are wrong and you are ignoring the law. You cannot legally disseminate user information to The RIAA, as they are not content owners!….EVEN IF the information in question is that of a user who HAS downloaded or posted illegally obtained material. The RIAA is a congressional lobbying group, not a content owner or copyright holder….You cannot infringe upon the RIAA’s copyrights….They don’t own any music….they don’t hold copyrights. If this story is true then LastFM broke the law….in addition to betraying the trust and privacy of their users and has joined hands with middle man fascist scumbags who don’t make anything but money.

    brendan b brown
    wheatus.com

  • DNA

    it need not be proven true…am sure people have already uninstalled it just to be safe

  • http://blogs.octavarecords.com/audesi Earl Dixon

    I’d like to note that: just because the tracks are scrobbled doesn’t mean that the person has actually listened to this track. Meaning, this isn’t a fool-proof way of actually determining that a person has a particular track. Last.FM only collects titles that are in ID3 tags. I mean, I don’t know who would purposely edit the ID3 tags to reflect they are listening to unreleased material, but it’s very easy to fake the data. The RIAA will need more proof than what Last.FM could supply, data wise.

  • lame

    I find it humorous that an article that that bases its information on unsubstantiated rumors coming from anonymous sources tries to take the moral high ground on anything.

    You know that there is a moral obligation to confirm facts, right, before saying something that has the potential to harm the livelihood of others?

  • Sean Byrne

    TechCrunch has no journalistic standards.

  • Dan

    Erick Schonfeld will be seen serving frapuccinos in a Starbucks soon. What a piece of investigate intelligent scribble. show me your press credentials please Mr.Schonfeld!
    Stuff like this ruins the reputation of the publishing website.

  • Henry

    Musicians say that their life is all about the ‘music’, putting it out there for people to experience, their ‘art’, have their voice heard or whatever.

    Well, the internet/file sharing/bittorent has allowed them to do so and on a much larger scale.

    Musicans and the record industry need to get over themselves already. Wake up and realize thats its 2009.

    People use the internet as another way to discover music. Dont they understand that even illegal music downloads do in fact translate to CD sales?

    The average music listener is now realizing, especially in these economic conditions that going to the store and buying a CD that you havent even heard before (lets just say you heard one single) is too much of a risk.

    By risk, I mean the album would suck and it would have been a waste of money. And throw in there that CD prices are still fairly high. The average price for an album in Australia is around $25-$30.

    The message is pretty clear and simple: Make better music and the people will buy it.

  • JAson Freeman

    Wow, I wish someone would come along and just put the RIAA (and its bottom feeding, blood sucking attorneys) outta their misery!

    RT
    http://www.anonymity.eu.tc

  • http://www.repeatpenguin.com Jeremy Anderson

    last.fm has denied this bs!

    cite – http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/02/20/did-lastfm-just-hand-over-user-listening-data-to-the-riaa/#comment-2632012

    cite – http://www.last.fm/forum/21713/_/506518/1#f8660996

    TechCrunch, exercise some respectable journalism here. You heard from a friend!?! What other evidence do you have to release a damaging article like this? Have you seen the data is there written correspondence?

    And where in CBS is this source located? CBS is a giant company and my guess is that very few people working for CBS, outside of those working directly for last.fm, know squat about what’s going on with last.fm

  • Jason

    Most likely TC’s silence after Last.fm’s statement is because it’s now 5pm and the “weekend has started” for the folks at TC, which was Schoenfeld’s excuse for allowing unsubstantiated rumors about Last.fm to be posted and to stand all weekend without comment to begin with: “Most of the Last.fm team is in London, where the weekend has already started.”

    Interesting game. Throw out a rumor when it’s too late to be commented on, and then when a response is issued it’s “too late” because its’ now the weekend. Rumor stays for at least 48 hours.

  • http://wheatus.com wheatus

    Not out of the question for these dumb asses…..Either way, technically, the album was RELEASED BY THE LABEL! It wasn’t “Leaked”…so if the plan was to trap people they are gonna have a hell of a time…UNIVERSAL RELEASED IT!

    brendan b brown
    wheatus.com

  • http://serafinak.com Serafina

    1 – the information they allegedly gave is publicly available

    2 – disseminate doesnt mean what you think it does

  • http://wheatus.com wheatus

    If this is all true they could have released user IP data….that would be a catastrophe.

    brendan b brown
    wheatus.com

  • http://last.fm/user/jonty Jonty Wareing

    What annoys me is that people are deleting accounts and losing their entire scrobbling history based on shoddy journalism.

    This hurts those people who have spent years carefully collecting their data far more than last.fm as a whole.

    Jonty
    (Another last.fm staff member)

  • http://smartbabesaresexy.blogspot.com Smart Babes are Sexy Blog

    I wish we could get to the bottom of this. If the post is not true, then Techcrunch will need to watch out.

    Last.fm is a UK company, and UK defamation and libel laws are VERY strong. I believe according to UK law if you publish something which is not true and it damages the reputation and business of that person, you can be found liable for libel or defamation with significant damages and lawyers fees. I am not a lawyer so I don’t know the merits of this case, but I do work in publishing, and I know that publishing anything that may not be true and which can be accessed by a UK audience can be very dangerous.

    Anjali Sen

  • http://wheatus.com wheatus

    Universal released the record. People bought it. Copies should be covered under fair use. You own it you should be able to make copies. The Majors failure to monetize the web and respect their customer base has done WAY more damage than “thieves” could ever hope to.

    bbb,
    wheatus.com

  • http://wheatus.com wheatus

    IP addresses are NOT public info. Yours is being recorded by this sites provider as you post. If they give it out are you a chump?

    brendan b brown
    wheatus.com

  • http://serafinak.com Serafina

    Haha, “According to a tip we received…I heard from an irate friend who works at CBS”

    So, an anonymous source + “friend of a friend” = BULLSHIT!

    I feel so bad for last.fm right now.

    But at the same time, that information’s publicly available. If you dont want the RIAA to know you’re listening to an unreleased track, dont scrobble it.

  • http://HearWhere.com pedalpete

    The Last.FM denial (though very strongly worded) misses out on one issue. The data is available through their API. What you’ve scrobbled, and who you are.

    So that may be what is going on here. RIAA hires a developer to get user data from last.fm API. An api key is all that is needed. No special ‘requests’ or ‘dumps’ from last.fm.

    However, this does not mean it happened, and it would be nice to see Erick dig deeper into this story and let us know what is really going on.

  • http://www.sebastianwetzel.org/blog/2009/02/hat-lastfm-benutzerdaten-an-die-riaa-weitergegeben/ Hat Last.fm Benutzerdaten an die RIAA weitergegeben? – SebastianWetzel.org

    [...] Sebastian am 21.Februar 2009 um 02:12, in der Kategorie Musik In diesem Artikel bei TechCrunch geht es um das noch unveröffentlichte neue Album von U2. Wie so oft hat es vor der eigentlichen [...]

  • Tabitha “Tabz” Smith

    Oh please. Stuff like this gets published all the time in news papers and the media. Erick made VERY clear that it was secondhand information. The article clearly states “if this was true..” and highlights the dangers of Last.fm’s public records and TOS.

    Irresponsible journalists wouldn’t.

  • KFox

    “Irresponsible journalists wouldn’t”? Are you serious?

    It takes an irresponsible journalist to post this kind of thing to begin with! A story posted without factchecking that hurts a company’s reputation? How, in any light, is that responsible?

  • http://www.rashmiranjanpadhy.com Rashmi Ranjan Padhy

    my gawd …

    your comment is longer than the post itself …

    and yes …. i didnot read it ..

  • MartinSFP

    Metadata is proof of nothing. I could tag a bunch of tracks with the tracklist of the new U2 album, scrobble them to last.fm and then it looks like I’ve listened to them when I’ve really listened to Ricky Martin or some other rubbish.

    I think the RIAA were just trying to work out a rough idea of the scale of piracy.

  • http://last.fm/user/jonty Jonty Wareing

    As a followup, we have now stopped the job that removes users marked for deletion, so if you did delete your account in haste and want your scrobbles back, please contact our support team.

  • http://ben-ward.co.uk Ben Ward

    ‘The RIAA’ and every other boogieman and boogiewoman can access data through the Last.FM API, yes. However, that does not contain any more ‘identifying information’ about you than viewing the pages of the Last.FM website itself. Your IP, your email address, everything required to _identify_ you are not available.

    Furthermore, scrobbling doesn’t record what kind of media you listen to. If you play one of U2′s songs, it doesn’t note whether it’s from an MP3 or a legitimate promotional CD.

  • http://www.rashmiranjanpadhy.com Rashmi Ranjan Padhy

    lol ….

  • Anonymous

    Old copypasta is old.

  • http://twitter.com/silvaldropout silicon valley dropout

    the comments in the post are funny

  • Fiona McLaren

    This seems like the latest in a string of tabloid-like articles that sound more like a personal vendetta against Last.fm than anything else.

    As others have said, completely irresponsible ‘journalism’.

  • http://www.howcute.com/ baronvonsextron

    If I was a last.fm founder i’d post more than a comment on here and go and watch a film. A story like this could go so huge they might no have any users by Monday, a weekend is a long time. Even if it is/isnt true I bet a lot of people are reconsidering their online habits etc.
    In fact, just because the posters above say they are from Last.fm who is to say they aren’t imposters from the RIAA. Last time I checked I wasnt ACTUALLY baronvonsextron even though I said I was in the box above

  • http://toomuchnick.com Nick Douglas

    I’m sure glad TechCrunch sets the record straight where scurrilous gossip blogs like Valleywag would have just run with the story without contacting the company involved!

    Oh, wait, what?

  • KFox

    In hindsight, I realise that the comment that I left sounded harsh, but I promise that I’m not attacking you directly, I’m just flabbergasted at the entire ordeal.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joseph_Stevens/580110056 Joseph Stevens

    ”We’d never personally identify our users to a third party”

    In Last.Fm we trust.

    http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/02/20/last-fm-not-really-sharing-data-with-riaa/

  • zeeg

    Sooo…wouldn’t it be nice if there was a nifty way to highlight privacy policies that we all just click through to see if there is anything in there we should really worry about…I’m sure most of the policies I’ve accepted have something in the fine print that I would not agree with…whats a man to do!

  • H

    At least they’ve already changed their policies on lawsuits. The RIAA said last year that they wouldn’t be suing people anymore.

    Not that they won’t find something equally heinous to do instead.

  • http://wheatus.com wheatus

    1 : to spread abroad as though sowing seed
    2 : to disperse throughout ….

    So are you saying that it is all false…never happened. I sure hope you are right.

    You don’t own like you think you do.

  • http://www.teradome.com Noah

    You are asked to turn it on or off when the software is installed, since it aids with the metadata issue but reduces your privacy a certain bit.

    But yes, they should be able to verify the leaked tracks with the fingerprint data.

  • Err..

    RIAA impostors? Seriously?

    You must have missed the link posted twice in these comments already.

    http://www.last.fm/forum/21713/_/506518

    The same last.fm fellows, on last.fm, posting with their staff accounts, saying the same thing.

  • http://www.mybarina.com Tunacrust

    Dear RIAA,

    I use last.fm and live in Australia. Knock yerself out darling.

    Love,
    Dave

  • http://wheatus.com wheatus

    LOL

  • Michael

    Oh shit shit shit. I’m so fucked.

  • http://www.teradome.com Noah

    IPs addresses aren’t, but Last.fm inputted credentials (username and password login into your account on their server) are.

    Your last.fm profile is tied to an identity (name, email, etc.).

    It doesn’t matter at all what IP addresses that profile is logged in from.

  • Cake

    Yes, but they can’t see IP addresses and registration emails from there, can they? I’m not saying Last.FM gave that info away but come on, what else would they really be after?

  • ELS

    I’ve been using http://www.maestro.fm for a while now to discover new music and listen to my entire music library. I stopped using last.fm since I found maestro.

  • Marsha

    Hey everyone. I heard from a source inside techcrunch that Erick Schonfeld enjoys fornication with goats. A second source suspiciously hung up on me when I asked for confirmation.

  • http://ircfreak.net/news/scrobbling-the-rat/ Scrobbling, The Rat | IRC Freak

    [...] the album and listened to it with scrobbling enabled basically confessed to bittorrenting. Techcrunch’s tip states: I heard from an irate friend who works at CBS that last.fm recently provided the RIAA with a giant [...]

  • KFox

    Update from TC at the bottom of the article saying:

    “Update: Some more denials from Last.FMers, including one of the co-founders, Richard Jones, in comments who says this story s (sic) “utter nonsense and totally untrue,” and another one from Russ Garrett, a systems architect.”

    Wow. Love the phrasing. /sarcasm. Could you try to make it sound more like a continued attack against last.fm? They’re defending themselves against TC’s irresponsible, completely unprofessional journalist and TC’s staff makes it sound like some conspiracy.

    *faceplant*

  • John_Poot

    Hmm – you’re right about the summary knee-capping.
    But hadn’t you heard? Rumours are ALWAYS true.
    Tough titties – If Last.FM is ‘owned’ by CBS – and I have to say that was pretty easy to figure form their site content – then CBS will of course let the user data go to the execrable RIAA.
    Remember this is the mob representing merciless gouging of artists down through the years.
    As far as principles mentioned in a later post goes – IMHO that mob was, is, and always will be utterly devoid of any.
    Now excuse me while I get back to digitizing my collection of Vinyl LP’s purchased at considerable expense many years ago evidently to provide the funding basis for all the shite going down right about now. Really,
    OH, and I’m thinking of SHARING some of it. that’s right, sharing something I own with others who don’t own the stuff. Needless to say If I do that, I’ll have to then top myself out of pure guilt:-)

  • Tim

    Dear Erick,

    If I ever see you, I will punch you.

    Bests
    -Tim

  • http://methylblue.com Max Howell

    Friday night. I was halfway through my third pint when Techcrunch decided to attempt to discredit my company. It didn’t really stop me though. Who the hell believes the crap Techcrunch come out with nowadays? You guys… keep at it though, I’m sure a few people are interested in your insubstantiated bullshit.

  • m_gol

    I use Amarok and I don’t think it sends any fingerprit or so…

  • http://iFuckedtechcrunchanddiedasaresult.blogspot.com fuck off

    Go eat horse shit. All you’re doing is losing readers of your pathetic web site. The author of this “news story” should be fucked up the arse (but only if it’s not his preference) then fired.

  • Greg

    Wow you are a miserable cunt.

  • Daniel

    So journalistic integrity means what now?

  • PullingbackfromSocialWebUse

    I agree with you MartinSFP, I was thinking the same thing while reading this article. If true, there’s no way the RIAA or any other court could prove that the files with the Meta Data labeled U2 ‘New Song’ is actually the song in question.

  • Greg
  • John_Poot

    They have a “Branch Office” in OZ, natch. And far more teeth legally that the Yank version courtesy of the basically corrupt aus.forelock-tugging.ausjudicial system.
    So, good luck to ya, Dave.

  • Henry

    This doesn’t surprise me at all. I interviewed at lala recently and they mentioned that they had no choice but to work with the RIAA to keep streaming costs down. People, you’re sharing information publicly and you’re not paying for anything! What do you expect? If you’re paranoid just don’t scrobble.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Adriel_Cartmell/789750251 Adriel Cartmell

    This story is amazing, pull some BS out of the air and we have a story. Breaking News!: Erick Schonfeld is gay, news at a 11.

  • dank

    So,

    An indignant denial on *a message board* is MORE factual than a rumor on a tech news blog?

    If you think this is all she wrote on this little bon mott, you are sadly mistaken.

    The RIAA is getting creamed over the bittorrent issue and now they are getting scared.

    Scared animals that will fight with all they have.

    Wake up.

  • John_Poot

    Tom – Go to the top of the class.

  • http://last.fm/user/jonty Jonty Wareing

    A post on a message board located on the site itself, by a staff member and one of the founders? Yes, I’d say that was significantly more credible than Techcrunch.

  • http://www.mercuryvapour.co.uk/2009/02/21/bye-bye-lastfm/ Scribbler’s Laid A Big Juicy Log | Bye Bye Last.fm

    [...] this article is anything to go by, they may have just handed your listening data over to the RIAA. I [...]

  • LW

    AllMediaConsultant obviously makes good money from holding this view.

    To think that IP can become a cash-cow, providing the copyright holder with perpetual weath, is naive. Our economy is built on scarcity – supply and demand. We need to find new models, because it’s wrong to treat intangible goods (like downloads) in the same way as a material product.

    If the supply of a product is limitless (e.g. IP), and duplication incurs a negligible cost, then expecting to get paid FOREVER for a downloads is corrupt in my view. It’s very appealing to the owner of the IP, but that doesn’t make it right.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James_Aguilar/3101777 James Aguilar

    Here at TechCrunch, we don’t believe in getting the facts. We just want to pay the bills any way we can. Pathetic.

  • http://smartbabesaresexy.blogspot.com Smart Babes are Sexy Blog

    No not under UK libel and defamation law.

    They are VERY strict. Even passing rumours which are untrue is subject to libel and defamation. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22245

    I know, I work in publishing and some of our books are published in the UK. Our UK partner has been sued several times.

    Last.fm is a UK company.

    Anjali Sen

  • AllMediaConsultant

    Let me preface this by saying I am in no way connected to the music industry or the motion picture industry.

    Like you, Henry, I’ve also been conscious of the risk of possibly buying a CD album, sight unheard only to discover a few great tracks mixed with filler sometimes. But evolving technology has evolved the concept of an ‘album’ , and the modular, micro-payment model of the iTunes store and other online outlets, along with their preview function, have made it somewhat easier to ‘legally’ avoid the filler.

    But that ll that said, let’s fact-check your statement “Dont they understand that even illegal music downloads do in fact translate to CD sales?” . . .

    From a number of online & industry sources:

    CD sales officially hit an all-time low in 2008.

    361 million CDs were sold in 2008, down almost 20 percent from the previous year. About 84 percent of all album purchases were CDs, down from 90 percent the year before.

    Total album sales in the United States last year, including CDs and full-album downloads, were 428 million, a 14 percent drop from 2007, according to data from Nielsen SoundScan. Since the industry’s peak in 2000, album sales have declined 45 percent.

    On the other hand, in 2008, just over a billion songs were downloaded, a 27 percent increase from 2007.

    And as I said, new models are evolving – 20% percent of Rihanna’s revenue has come from the sale of ring tones.

    So, like TechCrunch, you need to be a bit more careful in stating something as fact. But I hear you about the high CD prices in Australia. There are, though, listening stations at record stores and where you can preview albums before you buy, and enough online outlets where you can just buy the tracks you like.

    But your comment about musicians and the record industry needing to get over themselves is an unfair generalization. Does that mean authors of books should ‘get over themselves’ when something like the Kindle 2 ‘text to speech’ function usurps their potential audiobook rights?

    Should photographers get over themselves when graphic arts ‘sharing’ sites offer ilegal downloads of their copyrighted works? And how many of the same sites offer illegal Rapidshare or torrent downloads of complete website templates, code and all, from content creators like TemplateMonster.com?

    Nothing you’ve said justifies criminal theft.

    The one statement you made I do agree with is ” make better music and people will buy it” – which can apply to any creative content.

    But let me leave you with a few more sobering statistics courtesy of drownedinsound.com that serve as a footnote to your “Dont they understand that even illegal music downloads do in fact translate to CD sales? ” . . .

    “the IFPI, has released a report which claims that more than 40 billion songs were illegally downloaded in 2008.

    This huge figure equates to 95% of all music downloads and is the same percentage of illegal downloads which were made in 2007, despite government action and the growth of legal sales and compelling alternatives to P2P.

    We knew things were bad but this is astounding. It means that due to file-sharing via P2P, blogs, IM-ing, YouSendit/Rapidshare-ing zip files, CDR’s, hard-drive swapping, etc. the record industry is only making 5% of the money it could potentially be making. This five percent of legitimate/legal sales equates to US$3.7 billion (about £2.4 billion, according to Google’s currency converter), which is all well and good but it’s a pittance when you consider what the other 95% is worth, we figure about £48 billion!!!
    (US$69 Billion).

    ‘Nuff said.

  • http://webpage-design-4u.com/lastfm-not-really-sharing-data-with-riaa/2009/ Web Page Design For You » Blog Archive » Last.fm not really sharing data with RIAA

    [...] to track down people who are scrobbling unreleased tracks.”According to one of Last.fm’s founders, commenting on the TechCrunch post, “This is utter nonsense and totally untrue. As far as I can tell, the [...]

  • http://www.teradome.com Noah

    As xkcd put it today, this righteousness about sticking it to the RIAA man was right when everything was DRM’d up the wazoo… but all major stores sell non-DRM MP3 or AAC files now. We won. We can buy music from the labels without any weird crap or rules attached to it.

    If you don’t like labels, don’t listen to the music they publish, plain and simple. I’m always amazing how people don’t grasp this simple concept. Plenty of podsafe artists out there.

    People create IP because IP laws encourage them to. It’s appealing to the owner *and* the creator. Who else should it appeal to? Why don’t you tell us? How is it not right, because music should be free? Because nothing is stopping anyone from creating and releasing music into the public domain for free. You are not REQUIRED to charge money for your music, or publish it through a RIAA-affiliated label.

    There is choice here, and some people choose the break the law just because. Because they are indulgent and self-righteous. If this energy was directed into supporting and promoting sites designed to publish and reward artists that release free music, we’d be seeing the culture shift you’re asking for.

    Read Lessig’s book and read more deeply into why Creative Commons was formed. You’ll see what I mean.

  • http://www.howcute.com/ baronvonsextron

    I’d prefer to see something on their blog or somewhere official other than a support forum refuting it. Even some of the posters above haven’t put anything on their company blog pages. Something on their site refuting everything would be better than saying the deleted scrobles are not being deleted in case users want to change their minds and return. (Perhaps facebook should have said this week?)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joey_Elijah_Alexithymia/518164921 Joey Elijah Alexithymia

    I’m glad this has been refuted, but it has made me stop and think about using last.fm.

    I don’t mind overall data being shared, but if last.fm is really all about mining user data – with personal identification – to ‘sell’ to lobby groups or media corps. count me out.

    I’m fine with “band XXXX is more popular during a release advertising campaign” or “males 20 – 25 listen to XXX most” but when it’s “username I.P address 69.123.x.x. blahblah” then i’m not digging it.

  • Scott Cranfill

    More shi–er, I mean, shoddy reporting from Erik Schonfeld.

    Mike, please come back from vacation so you can finally fire this clown.

  • http://ben-ward.co.uk Ben Ward

    The staff did respond on Last.FM itself: http://www.last.fm/forum/21713/_/506518/1#f8660996

    As for their blog: It’s low-frequency and publishes actual news about their service. Turning it over for rebuttals to bullshit TechCrunch stories would be out of proportion to say the least.

  • AllMediaConsultant

    LW – nice to see a reply with some intelligent thought behind it.

    I wasn’t suggesting “IP can become a cash cow”. Yes, our economy is built upon supply and demand, scarcity will drive prices up – abundance will drive them down.

    I don’t know, though, how you come to the conclusion that downloads are intangible goods. I don’t see a paid download at iTunes for a specific digital content file through a registered and secure account tied to a credit card as being intangible and not being a material product.

    I don’t know about you, but I’ve never encountered the supply of a product that was limitless. Production and inventory are usually tied to demand.

    I also don’t see how expecting to be paid, ‘FOREVER’ or otherwise for a legally-transacted download is ‘corrupt’ or not right. If you were a painter and people buy prints of your original work and then scan it and print additional reproductions for their friends without paying you, is that not corrupt? How long, at that rate, would you be able to afford your Internet connection to even be able to post in a threat like this?

    I agree, and have already stated, that we need to find new distribution models which may put downard pressure on prices – but the open market will determine that.

    You and a few other people seem to be missing the point that theft is theft and is criminal. That’s not a ‘miserably cuntish’ opinion . . . it’s a truism voiced by other responders in this thread.

    And finally, no, I don’t make any money from holding this view . . .but perhaps I’ll take up your suggestion . . . if I can find a way to configure uncorrupted downloads.

  • Prashant Vaibhav

    In your well-articulated argument, you have very conveniently failed to mention one important fact: iTunes Music Store sold songs worth $3.34 billion in 2008, a whole 25% increase over the previous year[1]. Since you quote a figure of $3.7 billion for total conventional CD sales, the iTunes store (alone!) is doing business almost equal in size to conventional retail stores.

    The CD sales dropped 20% in 2008, but at the same time, digital downloads rose by 25%. Given that conventional sales amount to $3.7 billion, this equates to a loss of $925m, while the iTunes store saw a rise of $840m. That alone almost covers the “loss” you speak of.

    I have not even factored in sales from Amazon, eMusic and other online music stores as well as sales from ringtones and similar sources of revenue; but it is increasingly clear that CD sales figures do not tell the complete story. If anything, I’d attribute any overall loss in figures of music consumption to the increasing amount of absolute garbage being released by the major label these days.

    Your argument falls flat on its face.

    [1] http://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/content/corporate/apple_fiscal_2008_by_the_numbers.html

  • AllMediaConsultant

    Amen! But if you’re the creator of the free music, you can’t buy free food, clothing or shelter. It’s a fine model for the hobbyists who can afford it.

  • Prashant Vaibhav

    Small typo: 34% increase in iTunes music sales (not 25%)

  • http://www.chocablog.com/ Dom

    No retraction? No apology?

    This kind of article could completely destroy a company. It’s trash journalism and deserves an unreserved public apology.

  • http://www.brockbatsell.com/ Brock

    Tabitha, I’m sorry but you’re totally incorrect. This is third-degree hearsay, and there’s not an editor on the planet that would allow an article in a legitimate newspaper to be published if the journalist was up-front about the lack of sourcing. (There are, of course, journalists who lie about their sourcing and get away with it — for a while — e.g. Stephen Glass.)

    There is absolutely no way this should have been published, and I will never visit TechCrunch again. I have zero indication that this is not the normal level of “journalism” that goes on on a daily basis. Not even a retraction. This is horrifying.

  • http://theblogocean.com/ M Rahman

    I m a Last Fm subscriber. If this is he true….surely I should delete me account.

  • LW

    I think we do need a culture shift.

    There are whole hierarchies of people who sit between the music makers and the listeners who are most likely not needed in the digital era. From what I’ve read, bands and artists make the majority of their money from radio royalties and from gigging. In terms of downloads and CD sales, they receive a far slimmer slice of the profits; and in some cases, they receive even _less_ from downloads. The industries standard response doesn’t wash, quite frankly.

    I’m not trying to legitimise piracy – but maybe I am trying to rationalise it.

    In my view, sometimes legislation can’t be used to turn a tide. I think that there are a lot of lessons that can be learnt from the open-source movement. While open-source software products (IP) are distributed for free, the creation of these products, creates an ecosystem where services can be sold.

    As far as I can see, creating this kind of service-based economy is the logical step in terms of trying to ‘monetise’ any type of IP.

    I think the main problem with this idea, is that large corporations would have a difficult time maintaining control. Which isn’t necessarily bad for society in my opinion.

    I’ll definitely read about Lessig and Creative Commons, thanks for the tip.

  • http://www.b12partners.net/wp/2009/02/20/reading-around-on-february-20th-2/ Reading Around on February 20th at B12 Solipsism

    [...] Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? – Last.FM might just be dead – I would stop using it [...]

  • kevin

    I know what you mean. The RIAA f@(ked up really bad here. I know a lot of people that found out about this because of the RIAA. Haha corporate Nazi’s.

  • http://www.howcute.com/ baronvonsextron

    That guy is a Systems Architect though and has not confirmed that scrobbling can provide such info.

    Would not a rebuttal about their service not passing info to the RIAA on users habits warrant a blog post! All that could happen next is some mainstream news will go off with the headlline and you’ll be reading this in tomorrows daily mail.

  • http://www.idlethumbs.net Jake

    If that sale had happened yesterday, this same site’s comment threads would have been full of congrats. Awesome.

  • Stn

    Pathetic.

    For those who believe this article, please visit this post.

    http://www.last.fm/forum/21713/_/506518/1#f8660996

  • Joe

    They aren’t a startup, they are owned by CBS.

  • kevin

    I’m a struggling musician and I don’t care who downloads my music. I’m an artist not a corporate capitalist pig. You my friend are the one who is misinformed here. Most musicians don’t care, its the record labels who are run by talentless execs who are leeches that squeeze every penny out of musicians in the name of profit. But alas their day has come. They have served their purpose and now it is time to go. But the RIAA will not go quietly into the night so we will be hearing some real horror stories as the end of the era of corporate greed in the music industry comes to an end.
    I can record music at home, share it with friends or sell it online. I can l play live and get paid. So why do I need the RIAA? Or any members of the RIAA?

  • http://thelistenerd.com/2009/02/20/links-for-22009-vizzies-lastfm-the-riaa-girl-scouts-mayers-workouts-and-more/ Links for 2.20.09: Vizzies, Last.fm, the RIAA, Girl Scouts, Mayer’s workouts and more « the listenerd

    [...] Did TechCrunch make up a story about Last.fm colluding with the RIAA? Nobody scrobbles baby into a corner. And by baby, I mean me. [...]

  • http://www.howcute.com/ T Denning

    see http://www.last.fm/music/U2/_/No+Line+on+the+Horizon

    All those are thieves surely?

  • http://www.howcute.com/ T Denning

    @Stn, read that forum post carefully.

    it says “As far as I’m concerned Techcrunch have made this whole story up.”

    Not, “Techcrunch have made this story up” only a subtle difference, but no difference from the techcrunch original “According to a tip we received”

    Still no firm statements from either side yet.

  • http://www.cbsnews.com/ T Denning

    Just seen my twitter, its all over it and the headline is being picked up. Those guys really need to get out there and fight the fires.

  • bono

    U2 sucks

  • http://www.cbsnews.com/ T Denning

    when i say firm i mean something legally actionable

  • KFox

    Obvious troll is obvious.

  • http://www.cbsnews.com/ T Denning

    http://microblogbuzz.com/details/17699430 see how much it has already spread, by the morning they will probably look like the spawn of satan

  • LW

    My main problem is with the concept of making money from IP – and I don’t think that society should necessarily view the sale of IP as a given right.

    ‘Intangible’ might have been the wrong word to use – but I chose it because IP can’t easily be viewed as a finite resource. I can duplicate a digital print, track or video an infinite amount of times.

    The electronic credits that my debit card represents are far more tangible to me, because they relate to a finite amount of money – which is hopefully (naively?) linked to gold reserves or other suitable collateral. This is what I believe differentiates the two.

    >If you were a painter and people buy prints of your
    >original work and then scan it and print additional
    >reproductions for their friends without paying you, is
    >that not corrupt?

    I think that in a fair society, people should be paid according the amount of effort they put into a given job or task. If I put a finite amount of time into a task, I’m not going to expect to be rewarded infinitely – I just don’t think it’s fair. Time is our most precious commodity, and if our society and economy used time as a yardstick rather that money, I believe we’d all be better off.

    If I were a painter, and I’d made money from selling the original painting – maybe someone making prints for their friends wouldn’t be such a crime.

  • Andrew

    Well, that just does it, no more using them. I like using http://www.maestro.fm better anyway. I can listen to my own music and even sync my itunes playlists so I can get remote access. Bye bye lastfm.

  • KFox

    I can’t help but wonder, did you even bother to read any of the comments on this article before posting that?

  • Blondenough

    ” This five percent of legitimate/legal sales equates to US$3.7 billion (about £2.4 billion, according to Google’s currency converter)”

    This is assuming that everyone downloading was actually intending to purchase, which would most likely not be accurate.

  • nona

    Here’s an easy fix, or just a simple way to mess with the evidence… take some short 5 second audio clip, change the ID3 tags to match this album in question and put the song on repeat… If everyone does this, they’ll have to sue everyone.

    After completing the above, uninstall scrobbler and never use Last.FM again should the story be true…

  • JW

    Fuck Techchrunch for harming a perfectly good website like Last.fm. I hope they can sue your arses into the ground for this.

  • http://www.u2exit.com/2009/02/did_lastfm_just_hand_over_user_listening_data_to_the_riaa.php Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? – U2 Exit News Blog

    [...] – TechCrunch [...]

  • http://www.u2exit.com/2009/02/did_lastfm_just_hand_over_user_listening_data_to_the_riaa.php Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? – U2 Exit News Blog

    [...] – TechCrunch [...]

  • http://swordfishcode.com/2009/02/lastfm-no-comparte-la-identidad-de-sus-usuarios-con-la-riaa/ Last.fm no comparte la identidad de sus usuarios con la RIAA | SwordFishCode

    [...] Comentario de RJ en TC [...]

  • Jimbo Jones

    whew, good to know, although I’ll never get back those 4 horrific minutes of my life back.

  • Jimbo Jones

    I say screw ‘em. Self-righteous morons.

  • http://www.sublime.org Robin Barooah

    My comment wasn’t about supporting or not supporting the RIAA.

    My point was that they are known for using unethical tactics, including a scattergun of setting attorneys on people based on flimsy evidence and so if an organization is supplying them with data that could include information identifying you, then you are at risk of needing to defend yourself even if the evidence won’t stand up.

    Admittedly, the rebuttal and unreliability of the original story makes me look a little hasty, if not foolish, but frankly I don’t have a lot invested in this – I don’t want to either boycott or support lastfm, or read lots of reports and come to a judgement over time – I read what seemed to be an alarming story, and reacted in a way that I think many others would do too to eliminate a potential risk to myself.

    If there really is nothing to this, then I have to say it’s pretty irresponsible of TechCrunch. Even now the story gives the impression that it may have some basis despite the ‘denials’.

  • Greg

    You’re clinging to a completely outdated model of distribution and consumption.

    I responded to your first post by calling you a miserable cunt because your post was condescending, long winded, and essentially a rehash of ideas the RIAA has been bludgeoning the public with for the past several years.

    You say, “Grow the fuck up” as if consumers who download material without paying for it are immature when in fact people like you are the ones who display immaturity by refusing to recognize the current system as broken.

    “This kind of theft hurts real people, with real families, and real mouths to feed, especially at lower income jobs at the bottom of the trickle-down food chain that are usually the first to get axed.”

    The people that are getting hurt by this “theft” are the people that are nonessential to the process. In 2009, pretty much all anyone needs is a) the musician and b) the consumer. Everything else should go the way of the dinosaurs.

    I’m not promoting a download everything, pay artists nothing, anarchistic model of the music industry (however I don’t doubt someone will ignorantly claim that I am), but I am promoting we look at distribution in a different way then we did 50 plus years ago.

    “If you were a painter and people buy prints of your original work and then scan it and print additional reproductions for their friends without paying you, is that not corrupt? How long, at that rate, would you be able to afford your Internet connection to even be able to post in a threat [sic] like this?”

    Probably a long time. Someone would buy your work, distribute it far greater than you could ever have accomplished through selling it, increase awareness about you work and soon you get more money for original paintings, opportunities to have art exhibitions, etc. You analogy is a great example of how capitalistically effective people NOT paying for something can truly be in the long run.

  • Larry Marcus

    Techcrunch is crossing the line when posting a foolish story like this without further verifying the allegations.

    This site, can make and break startups, and we do appreciate the making, but now fuck you Mike Arrington!

  • http://downloader.indoweblog.com/lastfm-not-really-sharing-data-with-riaa/ Last.fm not really sharing data with RIAA | The Downloader

    [...] to one of Last.fm’s founders, commenting on the TechCrunch post, “This is utter nonsense and totally untrue. As far as I can tell, the [...]

  • http://www.kaimac.com kai

    This is pretty shameful. It’s one thing to make a mistake, quite another to fail to respond when an employee of last.fm has categorically denied it: http://tinyurl.com/aaxrdg

    Not cool. Sort it out TC. At the very least you owe the last.fm guys a prompt response, this could cause them massive damage. If you stand by you story, defend it. If you don’t, apologize and retract.

  • http://www.sublime.org Robin Barooah

    (I didn’t mean to appear to be doubting the ‘denial’ in that reply – just pointing out that TechCrunch is still casting doubt on them)

  • Shmelvis

    I have also heard this, and I think more people need to know.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brad_Root/622335454 Brad Root

    Wow, quality reporting over here on this website. “These are total rumors that probably have no basis in fact but let’s write an entire article about it as if it were true just in case!”

  • DS

    Just Deleted my last.fm account… le sigh.

    Same for Boxee =/

  • http://www.benthomas.com ben thomas

    I’d like to see a take down of this article or at least a retraction. Techcrunch doing journalism on rumors is just bad. Sadly, this will probably be the last i read of it.

  • Ben

    One: You don’t speak for most musicians, and saying most musicians dont care is a horrible, baseless argument.

    Two: The sad truth is, illegal downloads make it harder for independent musicians to make a living off of their art without a record label leeching off of them. We finally reached a point where it became cheap and easy to record and distribute your music independently. But now that no one is willing to pay for that or recognize it as a product, those artists are forced to sign a deal with a record label who can pimp the artist in a number of ways – touring, merch, ringtones, licensing, ect.

    The industry is sick, but your refusing to respect IP has no justification.

  • riffic

    don’t let the door hit your asses on the way out

  • Never again

    There actually IS NO BIG DEAL !

    Just never use
    - LastFM
    - Facebook
    - Google’s properties
    - Lala
    and any other of these monopolist data-collecting Websites again.

  • AllMediaConsultant

    Herein lies a cogent point: the originator of the IP has the right to determine if they want to sell it, trade or barter it, give it away, or just keep it for themselves.

    That choice can often be determined by whether the content is being produced by the creator in their bedroom in mom and dad’s home – or by if they’ve got a place of their own to pay for by being able to support themselves with with an adequate threshold of income from the IP or a related/non-related job.

    As a creator of IP in music, and all other media platforms, I have the same democratic rights. I agree with all the complaints everyone’s had about ‘talentless execs’, corporate greedbags et al and have welcomed the evolution in the production and distribution ecosystems.

    I’m not clinging to any model, outdated or otherwise; my main point through all of this is that the rights of the content creators in their choice of how they want to market their wares should be respected as protected by the current laws, regardless of the distribution system, or how past models are evolving into new models, be they micropayments or buy two-get one free.

    And how are the ‘non-essential dinosaurs’ that Greg is, himself, so ‘condescendingly’ dismissing, and who are a part of the larger consumer ecosystem going to be able to afford any of the original ‘paintings’ or any other IP if they have no income?

    It’s an easy ‘rationalization’ to say buyers copying a work for their friends increases awareness of the artist and original commissions. Low rez- thumbnails, or mini-gallery widgets distributed just as ‘virally’ can accomplish the same without diluting the value of whatever price the artist has the right to set for the original or any ‘prints’. If he/she wants to give away some promo prints, it’s their call and their right – not the consumer’s.

    The dynamics of a free market economy will determine whether the art is good, the prices are fair, or whether it’s an artist to be recognized or ignored. But the bottom line is that the artist’s rights related to property and legal protection are a pillar of the 14th amendment to the US constitution.

    Any forced dilution caused by theft and piracy may mean that, over the long haul, we all may be forced into a lower standard of living. That’s not capitalistic pig remorse . . . just an observation meant to stimulate the kind of interesting discussion that’s followed through these posts.

    Amazing what additional perspectives can sprout when you’re willing to engage beyond the initial juvenile attack responses that have permeated the TC comment threads.

  • http://no a. p.

    Pathetic. Fuck off rumor-spreading scum.

  • Greg

    “Amazing what additional perspectives can sprout when you’re willing to engage beyond the initial juvenile attack responses that have permeated the TC comment threads.”

    I’ll admit it. I baited you. I’m sorry. You do bring up some good points. Ultimately we’ll have to see what happens.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alan_Ralph/667199668 Alan Ralph

    I for one will not be uninstalling the Last.fm client from my computer. I actually use their service to find and purchase (yes you read that right!) new music. I already avoid the major labels as much as possible, choosing instead independent labels and artists. :) I’ve not nothing to fear from the RIAA, BPI, IFPI or their associates elsewhere. Oh, and to those saying Last.fm are evil now because they’re owned by CBS, a) this is old news, wake up! b) if anything, the service is even better now, particularly with the partnership with 7digital. Anyway, that’s my two-penny-worth on the subject.

  • John

    TechCrunch and it’s arse covering “?”‘s reminds me of Fox News.

    If it’s really a question then get the friggin answer before publishing.

    No wonder your head honcho is taking a break.
    Schonfeld should take a longer one.

  • http://nakaori.net/2009/02/21/lastfm-daten-an-riaa-ubergeben/ Last.FM: Daten an RIAA übergeben? » By Nakaori » Post » Nakaori.net

    [...] Zitat von techcrunch.com [...]

  • Greg

    Also, I’m declaring a moratorium for myself on arguing with anyone on websites for an entire week. I’ve done this too much recently. It’s not healthy.

    Relevant to the post: I’m keeping last.fm until someone respectable and intelligent tells me otherwise. And I’m deleting TechCruch from my bookmarks (no RSS).

  • TP

    “The message is pretty clear and simple: Make better music and the people will buy it.”

    This comment is completely illogical and dumb. Just because you think most music is bad (what I think also, by the way), you are not allowed to steal it. Why do you want to own it illegally, if it is not worth?

    This is like “Write better books and the people will buy it instead of stealing it” or “If you make your bread tase better, I will stop stealing it and buy it instead”.

  • Factchecking? What?

    Why is this still up? Why is there not a retraction? It’s not true, the Last.fm guys have you told you this now. It’s not a “denial”, you made this up and have been told it’s not true, so take it down.

    Mr Arrington, this is why you get spat at, yeah? Is it starting to make sense now?

  • http://www.houltmac.com Matt Hoult

    I hope this isn’t true. There is nothing else to say until someone confirms or denys it.

  • http://www.odonnellweb.com/?p=5182 O’DonnellWeb – Merriment and Amusements from a Fredericksburg VA geek » Blog Archive » Elsewhere on the Internet (February 20th 11:30)

    [...] Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? – Last.fm says Techcruch is 100% wrong. Still, it does make you rethink sharing your listening habits… [...]

  • Alex

    Thankgod for the Hype Machine then, eh ;)

  • McGahon

    “IF” this turned out to be true, which I doubt, why not boycott U2 because nothing gets the go ahead with U2 material without The Egomaniac, Bono giving the OK. Time to pay some tax in your own country Bono……. Free at last Free at last, the U2 album is Free at Last.

  • Mark V.

    Techcrunch’s quality is declining fast indeed.

    Only one post away from being dumped in my “tabloid” folder.

  • Ben

    slander?

  • Monoboy

    What surprises me most about this article is that people still listen to U2.

  • G

    Only problem being last.fm is so much better than Pandora because of the scrobbling and the social network.

  • Laura Timmins

    Some people are so gullible, a web site with extremely low journalistic standards makes up a story and some intellectually challenged people panic.
    Get some backbone you lemmings !!

  • G

    “People create IP because IP laws encourage them to.” Evidence??

  • http://www.funhunter.net Fun Hunter

    i dont understand what the big deal is. last.fm handed data over to the music owners (the labels, or in this case, reworded as the riaa). wheres the problem?

  • Jake

    What’s the big deal? All this paranoia when we’ve all seen repeatedly that the RIAA, if they care to, can just accuse random people of anything and the burden of proof’s on the individual to somehow prove they didn’t listen to, possess, or share a file.

    They can do this because they have money, and that’s all that matters in the eyes of Congress, where laws are openly purchased every day.

  • dttt

    FUCK YOU TECH CRUNCH!

  • Tech Cunts

    You guys suck so hard. Anytime I’ve got the misfortune to stumble across your lazy ass “journalism” I regret it.

    How fucking hard is it to get in touch with the peeps at last.fm?

    NY Post has more integrity that you fuckwits.

  • Anonymous

    So guys, let’s do a bit of theorizing. Presume that Last.fm really did give private information to the RIAA. What kind of response would you expect from the Last.fm staff? What would *you* likely do in their position?

    A) Offer immediate, outright admission of this fact
    B) Engage in some form of obfuscation or denial

    What good would A) do them, exactly? How do they stand to benefit from admitting something that would destroy their site when, as of now, there’s no definitive evidence either way? In my mind, it’s a “he said she said” scenario at the moment. The denial from Last.fm is what we would suspect in both a scenario where they did divulge private information and one where they did not.

    The RIAA (of which Last.fm’s parent company, CBS, is a member) will steep to any means possible to throw its own consumers under the bus. They (correctly) believe themselves to be like a dying animal and will do anything they can to survive. Their track record speaks to this and really, if this story was true, it would surprise anyone how? This is the same criminal group (the RIAA) that has tried to sue teenagers, dead grandmas, and even printers (idiots). Their standard of proof is low and their sense of justice entirely absent.

    Let’s use a little cynicism both ways around, in other words. I want to believe in Last.fm but as of now, there’s really no proof either way.

  • http://dsingleton.co.uk David Singleton

    (Disclaimer: I work at Last.fm)

    As already pointed out by one of the companies founders, RJ (and author of Audioscrobbler), this is utter utter unfounded bullshit.

    I can’t help but find this highly suspicious, Tech Crunch are no fans of ours, but posting a “friend of a friend, anonymous tip” on a Friday evening (US time) strikes of an intentional hatchet job. I mean seriously guys?

  • CheckYourFacts

    Tech Crunch is the new National Enquirer for geeks. Sensationalist headlines. No fact checking. Utter bullshit. I seriously hope nobody takes anything they read here seriously. I’ll be back at The Register thanks.

  • Tilekus

    Shame on you, Techcrunch and Erick Schonfeld! Seems that you posted this on Friday on purpose so that Last.fm is not that fast in replying oficially. Techcrunch in general seems to become a paid fake posts site.

  • http://www.last.fm/user/Babs_05 Babs

    What a crock of shit. No sense of proper journalism or moral responsibility, didn’t bother to check facts, in fact, totally peddling in fiction, rumour and speculation. Oh bravo. You made yourselves look really good.

  • Rob

    techcrunch articles now officially suck ass.

  • http://brucewagner.com Bruce Wagner

    Re: Comment posted by “LW”, Feb 20, 7:04pm PST

    I’ve read every single comment here.

    YOU dear sir/madam have hit the nail on the head…

    You’ve brilliantly summed up the entire “record labels versus piracy”, “IP versus the digital age”, etc…. issues… Or as I call it, simply, “The end of the age of copyright.”

    I suggest everyone here go and read that particular post by LW again. And again. Read it slowly and thoughtfully three times. Now, print it, save it, and learn from it.

    He/she has expressed what I’ve been saying for years. It’s a new ecosystem that is being created – like it or not – by whatever means. Go with it happily. Embrace it. Or be dragged into it kicking and screaming like a child throwing a tantrum. But enter into a new age, you will.

    It’s a new ecosystem where value is placed on the ARTIST, by the CONSUMER…. and the do-nothing money grabbers in the middle are banished from the playground.

    Where the financially sucessful artist freely gives away all his/her works in electronically reproduceable and shareable forms (i.e. Nine in Nails, one of the first major artists to “get it” & make millions as a result), and then… The artist’s works are spread all over the planet within seconds…. like a nightmare virus….

    And the artist makes his/her BIG money, where they’ve always made their big money… the one thing that CANNOT be duplicated… Their real live in-the-flesh concerts, appearances, speaking engagements, commissioned works, etc., etc… And radio royalties too.

    Just like Ubuntu, the new far superior computer operating system is quickly replacing Windows on PCs worldwide… as is FOSS (free open source software)… The company heavily backing it, Canonical, will make a fortune…. How!? By selling its consulting and training services to corporations who need it. After all, “Who knows Ubuntu better than the folks who created it?” …or so the logic goes.

    Record labels have extorted money out of the masses while exploiting the artists. That’s was ok…. Then.

    But now…. They’re day has come.

    It’s a glorious new day for artists and content creators worldwide! And an even better new day for us… the public who so apreciates, enjoys, and freely loves to support and reward them… at their live concerts.

  • notty11

    The Special Olympics of tech media, TechCrunch.
    - The Register

  • Agile Cyborg

    Bruce,

    Reznor is not establishing workable model for the industry just because you state this.

    You are missing a critical factor- just like many others who push this fallacy.

    Reznor is already at the top of the popularity pool from years of initial promotion by his vile record company. AFTER he gains this critical mass of loving fans he cuts the strings and THEN goes off into freetopia.

    Every single successful musician/artist you folks posit never initiated their own success through the freetopia method. They were already successful and therefore are able to ride on a wave of an existing loyal fan base.

    I can tell you that to make it long-term in a viable fashion where you are not living off parents and friends you MUST have a massive following because only a very small percentage of any group will cough up the money to support you- no matter HOW goddamn famous you are.

    This is at the crux of the model you pose. I do not believe it is possible for an up-and-coming artist to gain enough critical mass to support a thriving music business, family and a basic house payment on what you and LW are proposing.

    Now, single kids with no children love the idea of sitting around at mama’s house popping his shit into the hands a half-million bit torrent fans will one day see the light and buy something from them. Bullshit.

    Prove to me that ‘up-and-comers’ are coming into a VIABLE living this way and, I promise, I WILL extend my hand of respect to you and others and actually help promote the idea.

    I’m sorry but I don’t see the ‘provable’ numbers. I see glorious hype and desire but no concrete numbers.

  • Agile Cyborg

    Damn,

    I HATE the fact that we cannot edit posts here:

    I meant to post————–

    Now, single kids with no children love the idea of sitting around at mama’s house popping their shit into the hands of a half-million bit torrent fans hoping they will one day see the light and buy something from them. Bullshit.

  • LW

    I think that a recording industry contract is not much more than an amalgamated financial product; the equivalent to getting a loan and hiring someone with industry / business experience.

    Does anyone agree / disagree?

  • Dan

    TechCrunch is so full of shit it’s hilarious.

  • http://nakaori.net/2009/02/21/lastfm-wohl-doch-unschuldig/ Last.FM wohl doch unschuldig » By Nakaori » Post » Nakaori.net

    [...] Seite TechCrunch steht wirklich schlecht da, wenn sich dieses Dementi [...]

  • http://last.fm/user/jonty Jonty Wareing
  • http://blog.fealdia.org/2009/02/21/did-lastfm-just-hand-over-user-listening-data-to-the-riaa/ Hacking Corner » Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?

    [...] via Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?. [...]

  • Jk

    It would be fun if everyone tagged one or two songs as titles from the new album and scrobbled that just to piss off the RIAA.

    Long live the social music revolution!

  • http://chrisclark.com/2009/02/21/screw-lastfm-i-deleted-my-account/ Screw Last.fm, I deleted my account | Chris Clark’s Web Site

    [...] the story posted on TechCrunch is true, I would hope that everyone would drop their account from [...]

  • http://michaelkpate.com/ Michael Pate

    This was an interesting week on Buzz Out Loud when they had to discuss the whole tv.com/Hulu situation because of their CBS affiliation. I have a feel this will also make for an interesting story on Monday.

    Full Discolosure: I didn’t download the album because I am not that big a U2 fan. But I did watch a video from MySpace that had been embedded on a Facebook page.

  • russ

    One of the nice things about being bought by large companies such as CBS is that it puts a large legal team at your disposal.

    I would be happy to see last.fm take advantage of this and sue techcrunch out of existence.

    It takes years for a team to build up the trust of its user base, and tabloids like techcrunch seem happy to try to destroy that trust just to generate a few page views.

    As someone who has also spent the last few years trying to build a strong online community, I sympathize with the founders and the rest of the team at last.fm. Every day presents countless challenges to overcome as it is – the last thing you need is journalistic scum ruining your tea in the morning.

  • http://frequelizethis.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/lastfm-and-your-data/ Last.fm and your data « Frequelize This

    [...] Read the TechCrunch article that says last.fm may be handing over data. [...]

  • http://fucktechcrunch.com John

    TechCrunch = FAIL. I’ve unsubscribed and deleted your bookmark, I doubt you’ll be missed…

  • AllMediaConsultant

    I agree with Prashant that there are other sources such as iTunes, Amazon, MSN Music and other online sources of music that are mitigating the drop in real world CD sales, but you’re missing the main point, and my argument doesn’t fall flat on its face.

    40 billion songs were illegally downloaded in 2008. A loss is still a loss.

    If you equate an iTunes average price of 99 cents to each, you’re totaling US$ 39.6 Billion dollars.

    The rise in iTunes purchases or from any other source doesn’t offset that loss. That’s $40 billion dollars worth of theft – only $10B short of Bernie Madoff’s financial fraud, and convince me how it is any less criminal.

    We’ve all had out complaints with the record industry and the RIAA – but there are also good people within the industry trying to discover great talent (Clive Davis, Quincy Jones etc.). And there are people who’ve taken financial advantage of big talent (some examples – Col. Tom Parker-Elvis; Brian Epstein-The Beatles; Frank Weber-Billy Joel)

    But free market dynamics are indeed forcing evolution, and some artists may see shrinking revenues as efficiencies evolve, but at least they are revenues and not losses due to theft.

    No one in this thread has offered any justification for theft. But we all agree the system is in need up updating and fixing. And the same applies to DVD and Video Game theft and its distribution model.

    And if we need big guns like the RIAA to give some people with a self-delusional sense of entitlement a wake-up call by protecting the rights of artists, how is that any different from the police going in and taking out the tiresome list of school shooters who try to justify killing students and teachers because they’re zoned out on Doom and/or have been bullied or taunted.

    Like the recording industry, our educational system is full of much that needs fixing, including zero tolerance of bullying. And it also needs to cope with the larger social impact of music, movies, video games and other forms of popular culture that drive imitation because social cliques of young people think it’s cool – and result in an erosion of values and respect towards each other.
    (But that’s a whole other thread . . .)

    Despite the influences, what this all comes down to is taking responsibility for our individual choices . . .and the bottom line is that stealing music, or DVD’s or website templates, or photos and so on that are the Constitutionally protected property of the creators is illegal and wrong.

    There is no justification. Period.

    Not trying to pontificate in a condescending way, but it’s been evident by this posting thread that some people ‘get it’ and some people don’t, but hopefully all the discussion has prompted a broader way of thinking about it.

  • Rob

    IF this is true, I will be removing my Last.fm account and stopping scrobling my music (with sadness). I want to hear the other side first though.

  • Jester-NL

    Nice action… quoting the part of the privacy policy that basically tells your scrobbling-history (it is called the library there) and use that as a means to scare people that data will be sold.
    Having read the whole privacy statement again I find nothing that makes me believe this story.
    I am a happy user of the site, and a mod for years. My personal experience is miles of the load of rubbish written here.
    Based upon a hearsay story of a friend of a friend and an unidentified guy?? And you call that “news”?? Most gossip has a firmer basis.

  • Alex

    LOL

  • http://beckermanlegal.com Ray Beckerman

    I don’t know if the story is true or false in all of its details, but I noticed that the “denial” did not deny that Last.fm does provide data to the RIAA and is owned by CBS.

  • KFox

    It’s been confirmed many times that this article is complete nonsense. :-)

  • http://muzikjunkiz.blogspot.com/ n1k05

    if it’s only the meta data which is uploaded on Last.fm then you are right. But what if the client also uploads a hash of the mp3-file? The hash can easily prove that the file was actually the mp3 file of a particular song

  • Bruce Lerner

    As the cost of duplicating and distributing audio entertainment decreased, what happened to the price to consumers? That’s right, went up. Did the kick-back to the artists increase. I’ve never heard that argument presented.

    Who needs a reality check here. Just because a monopoly can get away with screwing the consumers doesn’t make it morally correct to do so.

    Oh, sorry. Slipped into your argument.

  • http://www.thisweekontheinternet.com/2009/02/21/lastfm-sends-your-data-to-the-riaa/ Last.fm Sends Your Data to the RIAA « This Week on the Internet

    [...] via TechCrunch [...]

  • steve

    true Martin. i also struggle to care about this story because, even if true, the only people who would be ‘damaged’ by it are people who (a) pirated music (b) were stupid enough to scrobble their pirated music.

    protip: dont pirate stuff or at least dont be so dense as to proceed to use something whose very purpose is to broadcast what you’re listening to to the world when listening to it. there is a ‘scrobbling on/off’ button right there for goodness sake.

  • William

    wtf are you up to Erick? Do you want TechCrunch to be taken seriously?

    Jeez, I wonder if Last.fm could take legal action against TC for publishing utter lies? I for one would back them, I mean it’s not as if they’re a small company anymore they have the backing of CBS.

  • http://www.socialskirmish.net Matt

    WOW!! Nice fact-checking there TechCrunch. Morons

  • http://kaimac.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/techcrunch-story-did-lastfm-just-hand-over-user-listening-data-to-the-riaa/ Techcrunch Story: Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? « Kai MacMahon: On Life,

    [...] Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? Yesterday evening, techcrunch ran this story about UK based (and CBS owned) music service, [...]

  • Chris

    Why would they deny being owned by CBS?

  • http://socialmode.com/2009/02/21/coincidence-of-wants-problem-destroyed-by-interne/ Coincidence of Wants Problem Destroyed By Internet « Social Mode

    [...] the middle controlling the currency, extracting a cut.  This week also saw some controversy with Last.fm and RIAA.  It too is based on this [...]

  • Adam

    Yikes…

    Arrington takes a vacation, and now we get garbage stories on TechCrunch.

  • http://www.kaimac.com kai

    Amazed at the silence from techcrunch. Very surprising.

    Just blogged my thoughts on it here: http://tinyurl.com/ddtzlu

  • http://andyontheroad.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/lastfm-denies-giving-up-users-to-the-riaa/ Last.fm denies giving up users to the RIAA « Andy on the Road

    [...] has come up again, this time in an international law context – and yesterday TechCrunch dropped this bombshell: That leaked U2 album is causing all sorts of trouble. The unreleased album, which is due out on [...]

  • KFox

    If they can, I certainly hope that they do.

  • http://big-chi.mp/ Jon

    It’s time for a new generation of game changing social networks where we the users own our own data. http://chi.mp/ is trying to be that game changer and there are probably others out there too.

  • KFox

    Very nice blog :-)

  • http://wheatus.com wheatus

    Indeed…but the point you are missing is that the RIAA lawsuits that have been brought successfully have hinged on the IP’s. That’s the smoking gun for them when they bring single mothers of 4 to court and ruin their lives.

    brendan b brown
    wheatus.com

  • http://www.nerdcore.de/wp/2009/02/21/trackt-die-riaa-raubkopierer-mit-lastfm-scrobble-daten/ Trackt die RIAA Raubkopierer mit Last.FM Scrobble-Daten? | Nerdcore

    [...] Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? Tags: Copyright, LastFM, Music-Industry, RIAA, Web2.0 [...]

  • http://www.eatabagofdicks.com/ Jay

    Wait, people still listen to U2?

  • http://wheatus.com wheatus

    YES!!!!!!!!! You are correct sir….you get a gold star.

    The era of the middle man is over.

    brendan b brown
    wheatus.com

  • http://wheatus.com wheatus

    This is correct…no they have not paid us any more…or the engineers who record music….no no only Record Exec salaries have increased.

    Despite the liberal stereotypes the head of the major labels are all Bushie Fascist Pigs.

    brendan b brown
    wheatus.com

  • http://wheatus.com wheatus

    No comment from the RIAA…THAT SAYS A LOT.

    bbb
    wheatus.com

  • http://esoterik72.net/esoblog/ Chris W.

    My first impressions of the story here was the same as my impression now. There is no story. This article is just link-bait for the author and Techcrunch and they should be ashamed. In the future, if anyone gives me a news link and it points to this site, I’m not taking the bait.

  • http://www.myspace.com/matell matell

    i closed my Last.fm acct over the summer b/c of lack of help from Last.fm in dealing with a rude member bad mouthing artists what have you. Last.fm is a little to social if you ask me.

    btw when I closed my acct Last.fm informed me that my content would stay on the site indiffly even though I’m no longer a member.

    matell

  • Chris

    This has been published on “an anonymous source tells us that their friend who works for CBS says that Last.fm staff are unhappy…”, and comprehensively denied almost immediately by Last.fm staff (including one of the co-founders). Yet there’s no sign of TechCrunch giving any retraction, apology, or even the merest hint of admission that “maybe we were wrong”. I feel I’m being quite generous to TechCrunch in calling this appalling ‘journalism’ (word used loosely).

  • DFA1979

    If you’ve uploaded your music to the site, you can take it down. If you delete your account before doing so then you make it more awkward for yourself, but staff can help you out and remove it for you (I know this, I’ve seen it done).

  • http://bitsoffreedom.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/riaa-verschafft-sich-lastfm-benutzerdaten/ RIAA verschafft sich Last.fm-Benutzerdaten « Bits of Freedom

    [...] man kann die musikalischen Vorlieben anderer Mitglieder erkunden, neue Bands kennenlernen usw. Die RIAA wollte jetzt einfach mal wissen, wer alles verkündet hat, gerade das neue U2-Album zu hören. Natürlich ist es schlicht [...]

  • http://www.freemusicarchive.org/prelaunch/lastfm-not-snitchin-you-are/ last.fm not snitchin, you are

    [...] Tech Crunch reported that lastfm gave the RIAA information about specific users who were listening to leaked [...]

  • King Kong

    this is retarded…there is no proof what track you actually played is indeed said track..you could easily retag a song and name it “Utter Nonsense – Stupid” and it will be scrobbled as such… because of this..it would never hold up in court

  • Paul

    Copyright infringement is NOT theft. This isn’t opinion, it’s FACT. Gov’t has been bought off by the RIAA and media companies to blur this simple fact.

  • http://nelswadycki.com/2009/02/21/further-proof-that-people-dont-understand-the-internet/ Nels Wadycki » Further Proof that People Don’t Understand The Internet

    [...] though the Update to this post on TechCrunch about Last.fm and the RIAA says that Last.fm hasn’t handed over any user data to the RIAA, um, guess what? There’s [...]

  • http://calbach.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/new-media-news/ New Media News « CH’s Blog

    [...] brimming with New Media controversies.  To name a few: Hulu and boxee, the Pirate Bay Trial, and Last.fm’s user information.  All of these issues fit right into the things we’ve been discussing in [...]

  • Shadesofice

    This article is bullshit.

  • Shadesofice

    This article is bullshit with unverified claims

  • Factchecking? What?

    So what, exactly, stops you from waiting to collect all this information you so desperately want to collect, and posting on Monday when you’ve got all the facts at your disposal, like any normal journalist?

  • http://www.lastfm.pl/user/onegumas onegumas

    Eeeeeeeeeee…what we talk about?? That what I’m listening is only matter of tags of my music files. If I only want i can tag all my files with unreleased album, even with non recorded yet. Tag may lie.

  • Brock Meeks

    So, TechCrunch decides to dip its toe into investigative journalism and ends up in the deep end, holding its nose and saying “Oh, SH**!”

    You’re getting what you deserve for writing up a RUMOR in all this breathless prose. Supposition, speculation. Just acknowledging the fact that it’s a rumor doesn’t suddenly make it OK to write about.

    Now that you’ve been burned, maybe next time you’ll think twice before you pull the trigger on a rumor.

  • obo

    It’s not journalism! It’s a blog!

  • http://popmoderne.wordpress.com/2009/02/22/links-for-2009-02-21/ links for 2009-02-21 « POPMODERNE

    [...] Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? That leaked U2 album is causing all sorts of trouble. (tags: bittorrent music copyright) Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Matt’s Daily Diigo Post 02/18/2009Inspired by true events.Do Not Adjust Your ScreenJulianne Moore’s kids don’t watch her movies [...]

  • http://itllallendintears.wordpress.com/2009/02/22/scrobbling/ Scrobbling « It’ll All End In Tears

    [...] could trust media companies to do, it was betray any trust you put in them. And look what they gone done: I heard from an irate friend who works at CBS that last.fm recently provided the RIAA with a giant [...]

  • http://radioglue.com/radioblog/2009/02/did-lastfm-just-hand-over-user-listening-data-to-the-riaa/ :: Radio Industry Technology News and The RadioGlue Blog :: RADIOGLUE ::

    [...] …word is going around that the RIAA asked social music service Last.fm for data about its user’s listening habits to find people with unreleased tracks on their computers. [MORE] [...]

  • Tony Ampler

    I know it’s end of the me 2.0 bubble and scoops are hard to find, but this kind of libelous disgrace spits in the face of the whole tech community. It is clear from the statements that nothing of the sort has happened and now you’re trying to muddy the waters in a paltry attempt to hide your disgrace. You wanted to create a shitstorm and you’ve landed up with one over your own integrity. Be careful what you wish for. This is just the latest in a litany of smears against Last.fm. I recall the recent debacle over your posting the facebook statuses of a number of employees who were made redundant, which you later removed. It is my sincere hope that you’re forced to print a full retraction of this too, at the very least. Perhaps it’s time to join Mr Arrington in early retirement – after all – you always wanted to “Be Like Mike.”

  • http://www.frankrijkaard.org Frank Rijkaard

    bye bye last.fm….

  • http://prozacforangels.ning.com/ Dido

    It’s of secondary relevance if they did it, it’s enough to know they CAN do it!
    How hard can be to put some pressure on them if the stakes are high?!

  • Agile Cyborg

    “To our knowledge, no data has been made available to RIAA”

    Schonfeld’s initial investigation into this story was perfectly warranted- even if he was only a customer who had come across a rumor.

    The response from last.fm to his request for information is practically the opposite of a concrete denial and allows a helluva lot of wiggle room.

    In my view, whoever wrote that lame response should be held responsible for the resulting angst against last.fm. Not the guy trying to get to the gist of a story.

    How can a company retain no knowledge of whether or not they release your data to the RIAA and then turn around and SWEAR through an ignoramus and expletive-laden backlash in the comments and elsewhere that your information is protected?

    When Schonfeld requested info at the outset an executive with last.fm SHOULD have responded categorically that NO information has been released. Period.

    There are so many tender-hearted children chirping about in the blogosphere that it takes a snowflake on their nose to bring them to tears.

    Fuck that. I stand behind TechCrunch on this. Last.fm dropped the ball with their lame-ass statement and Schonfeld just did his job.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael_Grandfield/502252258 Michael Grandfield

    Welcome to the new journalism, unfettered by trivialities like facts, integrity, and responsibility.

  • 2cabs

    Mr. Schonfeld You say, “From the very beginning, I’ve presented this story for what it is: a rumor.” This raises the question as to why you would publish what you have admitted is an unsubstantiated claim. Read the comments and look at the harm you have done to LastFM’s reputation.

  • ppat

    wwoow i m really surprised. if this rumor is true than i will be really disappointed on lastfm. i’m glad i uninstalled their software few days ago because it was annoying….never letting any software scan my comp for music…

  • http://eflation.wordpress.com/2009/02/22/verpetzt-lastfm-seine-user/ Verpetzt Last.fm seine User? « eFlation – denkt weiter

    [...] Februar 2009 · Keine Kommentare TechCrunch äußert diese Woche den verdacht, dass LastFM seine User ausspioniert. Konkret betrifft es das [...]

  • http://www.dhordain.com/lastfm-informateur-de-la-riaa-ou-simple-coup-marketing-766 Last.fm informateur de la RIAA ou simple coup marketing ? : Mathieu DHORDAIN

    [...] Techcrunch.com, la RIAA aurait demandé au site Last.fm (racheté 280M$ par CBS en mai 2007), la liste des [...]

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael_Grandfield/502252258 Michael Grandfield

    It looks like TC has taken to manufacturing the news. Prove me wrong, and cite the source of your information.

  • draffy

    bye bye Last Fm
    see you never !

  • http://oviron.wordpress.com/2009/02/22/links-for-2009-02-22/ links for 2009-02-22 « boblog

    [...] Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? That leaked U2 album is causing all sorts of trouble. The unreleased album, which is due out on March 3, found its way onto BitTorrent and was downloaded hundreds of thousands of times. That, apparently, sent music industry lawyers over at the Recording Industry Association of America into a fit. As a result, word is going around that the RIAA asked social music service Last.fm for data about its user’s listening habits to find people with unreleased tracks on their computers. And Last.fm, which is owned by CBS, actually handed the data over to the RIAA. (tags: b music law privacy) Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)links for 2009-02-16Name That Music Video!Channel Z : B-52’s, ThePlanet Claire : B-52’s, The [...]

  • liam

    Im pretty sure last.fm only uses the metadate, atleast when your scrobbling from an ipod, it wouln’t be able to generate a hash.

    And even if they uploaded a hash from the songs u played in itunes, changing only on tiny part of the file, eg the embeded cover art, the spelling of the artist name, or the track number, the hash would change completely and thus make any association impossible. I don’t know about the u2 album, but for most common lps there are a heapload of different encoded versions.

    Tracking the hash would only be possible if there was only one source for that particular album and users didn’t touch it (iTunes often modifies metadata slightly, without any action on the users site)

    But then, as most hashes are about 10-20 digits, u couldn’t rule out the possibility that u listened to a song which just accidentaly had the same hash value as one of the u2 songs, but im not sure if that would be strong evidence in court

  • John

    This is utterly ridiculous. TechCrunch obviously has no journalistic standards what-so-ever. They have lost my faith and trust, and i will NOT recommend them to anyone in future. The back-tracking “updates” don’t fix anything either, you always give the source plenty of time for a fully detailed response before crying-wolf and shouting wild damaging accusations. The proviso “According to a tip we receive” was only placed well after the rumour paragraph at the beginning of the post. TechCrunch continues to milk their position as king-maker purely because they were in the right place at the right time when the current new stuff in web development became big. They crossed a line here, and their integrity is obviously worth nothing to them.

  • http://www.cbsnews.com/ T Denning

    @Jonty, I’m not sure if last.fm is preparing a legal response, but I’m sure I’m not alone (especially when you see how this is bein picked up on blogs and twitter) in that I’d like to have seen something more of an official response and rebuttal than a couple of posts on the TC blog.

    Your PR department really should have been running with this from friday afternoon but they’ve decided (?) to let it fester all weekend?

  • http://www.softdoska.ru Erick

    LAST.fm – rulezzz! RIAA rrrr! :-(

  • http://lieinthesound.wordpress.com/2009/02/22/lastfm-warum-diebe-keine-fingerabdrucke-hinterlassen-sollten/ Lie In The Sound

    Last.Fm: Warum Diebe keine Fingerabdrücke hinterlassen sollten….

    SomeVapourTrails hat sich heute dem Thema Last.Fm verpetzt User an RIAA schon mal gewidmet und hält die Meldung von Techcrunch weniger für ein Gerücht – mehr für stating the obvious.
    Verfolgt man die Diskussionen auf anderen Blogs zu dem Thema, z.B…

  • http://www.dirksteins.de/ Dirk

    Ah, Erick Schonfeld, why don’t you just give in and admit that you made a mistake posting this story? But no, that seems to be inconceivable, if i take a look at the latest (2nd) update, where you now begin to lie in direct contrast to the article below.

    Your update reads: “From the very beginning, I’ve presented this story for what it is: a rumor. ”

    And in the original article you wrote: “And Last.fm, which is owned by CBS, actually handed the data over to the RIAA. ”

    There is NO hint that the handover of the data is a rumor, none whatsoever. Without checking any facts you assume the worst and damage the reputation of Last.fm, and a reply from them is not good enough for you, you keep on trying to find some holes in the clear denials given by last.fm staff, especially the one by Russ Garrett. You’re a bad loser, thats all! Be a man, stand up, and say that you and TC made an error. But i fear you are just a mouse.

  • http://thedrilldown.com/2009/02/22/the-drill-down-077-my-cat-agreed-to-this-eula/ The Drill Down 077 – My Cat Agreed To This EULA | The Drill Down

    [...] Obama’s BlackBerry Can Be Breached Palm OS: Dead, forever Purported Mac Mini video surfaces Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? How Twitter Affects [...]

  • http://muzikjunkiz.blogspot.com/ n1k05

    @Liam: I agree with you, many devices cannot generate hashes and also that if you change small parts of the mp3 the hash will be completely different. And the only portion of an mp3 which a user can However, what if the scrobbler uploaded the hash together with the ID-Tag?

    If you use a simple proxy, like Paros, you will see that for some songs the Scrobbler uploads what it calls the ‘fingerprint’ of a song . And the fingerprint is actually some ID-Tag info of the mp3, a sha256 hash of the file and some form-data which is unreadable and probably is some application data.

  • Chris

    Claims about “presenting this as a rumour” don’t cut it as an excuse for publishing this when you leave them until way after your claim that the data’s handed over. You’ve included a vague disclaimer, but you’ve written the rest of the article as though it’s undisputed fact that this happened.

    You’ve chosen to ignore the part of the privacy policy which states that personally identifiable data is not shared with anybody, and gone on to ask whether any personally identifiable info has been shared. There’s really no justification for this. You’ve clearly read the privacy policy, as you quoted the part which suits your scare-mongering story.

    The updates just sound childish and run away from the point. “I still don’t have enough information to determine whether it is absolutely true. But I still don’t have enough information to determine that it is absolutely false either.” You don’t seem to have *any* information worthy of the name which suggests it is true. ‘My anonymous source’s friend’ doesn’t hold up as an excuse to keep running with this.

  • Agile Cyborg

    You people need to employ some brain cells.

    Schonfeld PREFACED the article with a fucking question.

    IF the guy wanted to ‘generate’ the news he would have titled the article with a statement: Last.fm Hands RIAA User Listening Data.

    There is no HINT of a rumor? The guy implicitly states that “word is going around…” AND that he’s received information as a TIP.

    Um, how can this be construed as anything less than a rumor?

    Fact is last.fm’s bozo’s full of shit should have made it clear from the FIRST sentence they sent this author that NO data was being compromised. PERIOD!

    You don’t preface this kind of issue with the lame: “To our knowledge…” because they OBVIOUSLY a day later KNEW 100% that zero data had been dispensed.

  • techbrunch

    C’mon TechCrunch, you’ve got it wrong, admit it.

    Stop attempting to divert attention off of yourselves and just man up and post an apology.

  • Gubatron

    I buy all my music in the form of Used CDs from Amazon.com Resellers.

    It’s 100% legal (AFAIK), sometimes a CD can be as cheap as $1.00 (plus shipping) and the RIAA doesn’t get a dime.

  • nrq

    Just wanted to state that I’m pretty sure that last.fm staff knows that the day it gets known that voluntarily surrendered last.fm data is being used as evidence in a court it’ll lose most of its userbase.

    Why hasn’t the author thought about that before posting that trite speculation?

  • http://musicmachinery.com/2009/02/22/lastfm-techcrunch-and-the-riaa/ Last.fm, TechCrunch and the RIAA « Music Machinery

    [...] There was a bit of a kerfuffle on Friday evening when TechCrunch posted a story headlined: Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? – where they “reported” on a rumor that Last.fm had handed over a bunch of data  to the [...]

  • http://www.livermorereport.com/blogs/paidcontent/archive/2009/02/22/cbs-last-fm-deny-passing-user-data-to-riaa-some-users-delete-accounts.aspx Paid Content : CBS, Last.fm Deny Passing User Data To RIAA; Some Users Delete Accounts

    [...] the episode already appears to have hurt the site over the weekend. Another London developer,  Jonty Wareing posted on TechCrunch: “What annoys me is that people are deleting accounts and losing their entire scrobbling history [...]

  • Adele

    If posting it on their own official forum with their own staff accounts isn’t enough for you (one of the founders responded for crying-out loud, how much higher can you get?) then I fail to see how posting it on the blog will lessen your own paranoia. The RIAA has access to no more information than a standard user, in other words diddly squat to get so worked up about. All we see here is the usual hash that Techcrunch constantly spews out.

  • Dave

    techcrunch is becoming like The Sun newspaper in the UK – sensationalist rubbish.

  • Adele

    If I was Garrett I wouldn’t reply to you Schonfeld. You have no journalistic integrity and are certainly not interested in looking for the ‘truth’ even when it’s been posted in these comments. Any replies you get will inevitably be twisted by you to create more sensationalist rubbish, as you have tried to do with their irrefutable denials of handing data over. If anything I say it is people like you we have to watch ourselves over, because you seem willing to do anything to make a ‘story’. But keep going, all you’re doing is discrediting yourself and puts you more and more in the firing line for a heavy libel suit.

  • http://www.a-lyric.com/ Michael

    Unlikely. You might find that U2 have other things to do than play Trojan horse with a new album. If that is what they wanted, it would be less risky just to “seed” a rare track.

  • http://www.spion-media.eu/spionmediablog/allgemeines/lastfm-und-das-u2-desaster/ Spion Media // destination life » Blog Archive » Last.fm und das U2-Desaster [UPDATE] [UPDATE2]

    [...] widersprochen hat und sie komplett abstreitet. Der Gründer ist gleichzeitig recht erbost über den Techcrunch-Artikel und das Recherche-Niveau bei denen, da solch eine Anfrage nie vorgelegen habe und auch nicht [...]

  • Argyle Cyborg

    I heard from a friend of mine that Agile Cyborg strangles children to death while pleasuring himself. Now, whether or not this is true, we have to ask ourselves: are our children safe around him? Is that the sort of person you’d want in your neighborhood?

  • Doug

    I left Last.FM weeks ago when this new and much cooler service started at http://www.KryKey.com

    What do you expect when Last.FM is owned by CBS?

    The music companies are just killing their own industry.

  • http://darthchaosofrspw.wordpress.com/2009/02/22/did-lastfm-just-hand-over-user-listening-data-to-the-riaa/ Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? « DC: Freedom & Linux
  • http://www.a-lyric.com/ Michael

    The er

  • http://www.a-lyric.com/ Michael

    The era of the middleman is over as fewer and fewer people want to pay a decent price for music. Is that good news or bad news for musicians?

  • LilacWine
  • Rick

    I’ve waited a long time for the smoke to clear, but since Techcrunch apparently still insist on defending this unbelievable low slander, I don’t want to have anything to do with this piece of shit publication anymore.

    You don’t publish such vicious, utterly unsubstantiated but extremely damaging rumors unless you’ve got a score to settle, or are just an unbelievable a-hole.

  • Tommy

    I am glad techcrunch published this story. I find people who are getting offended and foul mouthed over this are the ones the general public needs to be suspicious over. This is too big of an issue to let slip and its up to Last.Fm to put a final denial in stone without the extra explanations they are giving. As it stands, my desire to not be wrongly sued is much higher than caring for the existence of any company–last.fm included. Therefore, I have uninstalled the last.fm client and will delete my account if we don’t here anything more concrete from last.fm than what’s already been posted. I’m very dismayed that last.fm has put a hold on the process that deletes accounts. That’s very worrisome in my book.

    Again, me NOT getting wrongly sued is far more important than the reputation of any company. Techcrunch may have screwed up but its up to last.fm to re-earn user trust. In the end, if and when we start seeing users that illegally downloaded the U2 album start to get legal notices either from the RIAA or their ISP, then we’ll have confirmation that last.fm gave in. Until then, we’ll never know.

  • CDD

    I’m convinced they have shared data about this music in particular, and there is not a single-voice, official PR response saying it isn’t occurring, just a bunch of “I didn’t do it” answers from various employees.

    Last.fm- issue a press release, be specific, and either put this to rest (and get your retraction), or not. The response I get will help me determine whether to continue to try to figure out if I actually have an account on your service (either through my ipod, xbmc, or others). Also- please define specifically how and what aggregated data is shared, and whether it is de-identified or not.

    If the music industry feels they need surveillance on these activities, i’m back to feeling the best way to get music is the place where i get the best service as a customer…. you can figure out where that is!

  • roebeet

    I quote the article: “I still don’t have enough information to determine whether it is absolutely true. But I still don’t have enough information to determine that it is absolutely false either.”

    Oh please. You can say that about ANYTHING. I heard a rumor that Martians have invaded New Jersey… you want to write that one up, too? What bothers me is the panic this story caused, and the damage to last.fm’s reputation…. on a rumor. This was very irresponsible and there should be a retraction.

  • Adele

    I have to disagree. This story is unsubstantiated rumour, and has been categorically denied by numerous members of last.fm, including a founder who would definitely know if such a thing had indeed been done. The only way I can see the RIAA obtaining any information is by visiting the website, giving them the same information that is accessible by the millions of people that use last.fm.

  • http://almostlegally.com/2009/02/22/a-magical-wonderland/ Almost Legally » Blog Archive » A Magical Wonderland

    [...] difficult task of tracking down pirates is mitigated significantly when the pirates tell Last.fm (and through that site, the entire world) that they’re pirating the U2 album.  Apparently, a [...]

  • Frank

    You know, I heard a rumor that Erick was involved in a hot and torrid affair with the head of the RIAA.

    Could that explain why he’s written such a lame and completely unethical piece?

    Or is it just that TechCrunch has gotten so desperate for pageviews that they’ll print anything?

  • KTG

    Another attempt at discriminately moving users data around which could result in some of those users facing fairly serious accusations. Maybe those users are in the wrong for dl’ing it in the first place, but last.fm giving it away (if that’s the case) doesn’t make a right. I carefully check this digital security site so I can protect my data and ensure my privacy.

  • http://www.wikyblog.com/CynthiaWunsch Cynthia Wunsch

    As a full-time musician myself, I have to come down against the record labels, and the whole behemoth of the recording industry.

    There is a way to encourage listeners to buy the CD by providing added value to the original CDs that they are not be able to share digitally. There are ways to provide legal downloads and to encourage listeners to pay for the downloads. Filesharing is a way of life and is not new; in fact filesharing has been around for nearly thirty years, but has been under the radar. It came to the limelight only with the advent of Napster, which put it within the reach of everyone.

    So I encourage musicians to put off their old, tired mass-production thinking and start thinking about their audiences in new ways. I foresee using these new methods to make tons of money for all the artists out there. What we don’t need is extravagant lifestyles for a few executives and 1% (if that) of the so-called “marketable” artists (the cute photogenic ones); what we need is to ensure that artists can make a living wage and provide plenty of music for everyone!

  • Anonymous

    Unfortunately, that does not seem to be the MO of Last.fm. Their interactions with the user base of the site are about as encouraging as what we’ve seen here (in fact, usually less encouraging): generally low-level denials issued with plenty of qualifications. “To our knowledge, no data has been made available to RIAA” is hardly a comforting statement. That’s about all I’m expecting from them, as well. There will be no very public denial, nor a statement that reiterates what data is shared, nor anything else that they should issue if they want to dispel this story.

    Like you say, the proof will be in the pudding. We’ll wait to see if any action is taken regarding the U2 leak and surmise the truth from there.

  • http://kaimac.wordpress.com/2009/02/22/update-techcrunchriaalastfm-user-data-debacle/ Update: Techcrunch/RIAA/last.fm User Data Debacle « Kai MacMahon: On Life,

    [...] User Data Debacle So today Erick Schonfeld at Techcrunch posted an update to his last.fm story from Friday.  36 hours or so after posting the original, with more than 300 comments posted on the [...]

  • http://blog.ondro.name/?p=96 blog [dot] ondro [dot] name

    Chýry. Škandál!!! Last.fm zrejme podhodilo RIAA dáta svojich užívateľov…

    A všetko toto spôsobilo U2. Partia, ktorá nie a nie prestať hrať (sorry fanúšikovia U2, ale fakt ich nemám rád, skoro ako Desmod) sa rozhodla sa vydať ďalší album, ktorý však ako vždy skončil skôr v torrentoch ako v predajniach.

    Albu…

  • Techcrunch bsing again

    My guess as to why there hasn’t been an official statement from last.fm is because it’s the weekend and the PR staff would need to be given the green light from the powers that be before a statement can be released (I believe that’d be general procedure in any company), so again you’d need to question the timing of this ‘article’ if it can be called such. It plays as a deliberate attempt to sabotage last.fm, playing on people’s fears of being sued. Obviously facts and the truth have no place in media like this, anything Techcrunch prints should be taken with a pinch of salt.

  • http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?section_id=715&doc_id=172486 Internet Evolution – David Silversmith – Click ‘OK’ to Download Your Subpoena

    [...] up in arms over this event. From here we leave the world of facts and enter the realm of hearsay. Rumor has it that the RIAA asked social music service Last.fm (the .fm masking the company’s U.K. headquarters) [...]

  • http://businessblogs.postdown.com/2009/02/22/is-lastfm-sharing-user-data-with-the-riaa-rumors-on-the-internets/ Business & Finance Blogs » Blog Archive » Is Last.fm Sharing User Data With The RIAA? [Rumors On The Internets]

    [...] Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? [TechCrunch] [...]

  • http://www.whygodhatesme.com/2009/02/22/is-lastfm-sharing-user-data-with-the-riaa-rumors-on-the-internets/ why god hates me » Is Last.fm Sharing User Data With The RIAA? [Rumors On The Internets]

    [...] Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? [TechCrunch] No tags for this post. [...]

  • A

    Between the endless, tedious Twitter-hyping and the articles based on gossip, I’m finding nothing to read on TechCrunch…

  • http://www.newsbeast.com/2009/02/22/time-for-some-riaa-lawsuits/ Time for some RIAA Lawsuits | News Beast
  • james

    Kick back watch it crumble
    See the drowning, watch the fall
    I feel just terrible about it
    That’s sarcasm, let it burn

    I’m gonna make a toast when it falls apart
    I’m gonna raise my glass above my heart
    Then someone shouts “That’s what they get!”

    For all the years of hit and run
    For all the piss broke bands on VH1
    Where did all, their money go?
    Don’t we all know

    Parasitic music industry
    As it destroys itself
    We’ll show them how it’s supposed to be

    Music written from devotion
    Not ambition, not for fame
    Zero people are exploited
    There are no tricks, up our sleeve

    Gonna fight against the mass appeal
    We’re gonna kill the 7 record deal
    Make records that have more than one good song
    The dinosaurs will slowly die
    And I do believe no one will cry
    I’m just fucking glad I’m gonna be
    There to watch the fall

    Prehistoric music industry
    Three feet in la brea tar
    Extinction never felt so good

    If you think anyone would feel badly
    You are sadly, mistaken
    The time has come for evolution
    Fuck collusion, kill the five

    Whatever happened to the handshake?
    Whatever happened to deals no-one would break?
    What happened to integrity?
    It’s still there it always was
    For playing music just because
    A million reasons why

  • http://rbbassettcbhp.edublogs.org/2009/02/22/u2-the-riaa-and-lastfm/ U2, the RIAA, and Last.fm | Blake’s CBHP Blog

    [...] Read here. [...]

  • http://jrn320kopam.wordpress.com/2009/02/22/u2s-no-line-on-the-horizon-leaks-but-still-looks-good/ U2’s “No Line on the Horizon” leaks but still looks good « Mere Lights in a Box

    [...] that wasn’t enough, TechCrunch reported a rumor that the Recording Industry Association of America approached music aggregation [...]

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rob_Bono/591225342 Rob Bono

    When article titles are phrased in the form of a question, your journalism is scraping rock bottom, particularly if the answer to the inflammatory question raised in the article is “No.”

    “Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?” – No.

    Honestly, if this is what TechCrunch has descended to, maybe Arrington was right – might be time to pack up, move on and leave real journalism to the big boys.

  • Shaun

    In 2002 it was a start-up. In 2007, it was acquired by CBS.

  • http://www.teradome.com Noah

    @ AllMediaConsultant, exactly. Don’t expect it to be a profession. You want to give away everything you do for free? Good on you. “Virtutem pretium‥esse sui.”

    @G, have you ever spent time creating something, I mean weeks to months, or even more, only to have someone else rip it off and claim it as their own? Take your screenplay and sell it to a studio? Make a hit single from a score you penned?

    Intellectual property rights exist to keep that from happening. IP laws encourage people to spend money, time and effort on ideas bigger than what’s readily available on hand because governments say that those efforts and expenses will be protected.

    Take technology IP. Ignoring the broken patent system in the US, would Apple have spent over five years in design, research and development making the iPhone if they knew that once it was released, an LG or an HTC could legally open it up, reverse-engineer the hardware, clone the OS down to the raw bits, and re-release the handset as their own? Hell no.

    What about Linux? What if it ran that instead? Well, Linux is “free.” But even Linux is licensed. It is licensed under the GNU General Public License. Look at the first line (http://www.linux.org/info/gnu.html): “Copyright (C) 1989, 1991 Free Software Foundation, Inc.”

    The irony, of course, is that it is the IP laws that ensure that Linux remains open. It’s the GNU license that states how it must be reused in an open way, and their power to REQUIRE others to use it in an open way exists because IP laws give them that power. The same irony that makes the open Creative Commons licenses legally enforceable.

    Did I just blow your mind?

    I definitely believe that most people who don’t believe in copyrights and IP laws *at all* are people who have not truly labored over creating something personal and new.

    By the way, I went to film school, and it was required that we take a copyright law class, so that we knew what not to do, but mostly to know how we could protect our own work.

    I also believe that modifications to recent IP laws overstep the original ideals of IP, but that wasn’t the question was it? You just wanted me to prove that IP works. So here’s some studies from the WIPO:

    http://www.wipo.int/portal/en/news/2007/article_0032.html

  • lyzzrd

    Amazing– I thought Fox News had the lowest standards of “journalism” around, including the mastery of the “leading question” technique, but TechCrunch has surpassed even that low standard. Congrats!

  • http://www.teradome.com Noah
  • http://www.last.fm/user/Babs_05 Babs

    An apology is most definitely required.

    Ars Technica (a much better source!) reports:

    RIAA denies rumors that Last.fm turned over user data

    Contrary to recent rumors, Last.fm did not hand over user data to the RIAA after U2′s yet-to-be-released album leaked online last week. In fact, no such request was even made, according to both the RIAA and Last.fm.

    http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2009/02/riaa-denies-rumors-that-lastfm-turned-over-data.ars

  • http://www.uberbin.net/archivos/weblogs/y-techcrunch-perdiendo-credibilidad.php y Techcrunch perdiendo credibilidad | Denken Über

    [...] tanto, luego de que Times lo considere el blog más sobrevalorado para 2009; un reporte falso de Techcrunch sobre last.fm entregando información personal a la RIAA hizo que muchos usuarios borren sus cuenta; y parece que la cantidad de usuarios abandonando el [...]

  • http://www.teradome.com Noah

    @Greg:

    I hate to point this out, but *most* people are “nonessential to the process.” But scale requires labor. An architect can design the Empire State Building but can’t build it alone.

    You seem to think that a musician can go it alone. Maybe he can. Define the level of success.

    Perhaps the internet *does* have the ability to let the next U2 find an audience and become a worldwide sensation.

    I believe that the supply is too great, the attention span too small, and the audience too spread out to make any small band achieve that kind of success solely on their own.

    Jonathan Coulton might the best internet musician success story since he never signed with a label post-buzz. Yet I recall him on The Soung of Young America talking about his fan base and how not only has it been growing, but how it’s consisted almost entirely of hardcore fans. He’s enjoying a very modest niche success here, and honestly, I think that’s all you’re going to get without larger marketing forces to help push you up and keep you top-of-mind with the parts of the audience that forget you for the next new internet meme band of the week.

    “And in some parts of the country, I’d be making a decent living. I chose to live in one of the most expensive cities in the country. I don’t know why I did that, but….” — Coulton

    My question then is: are *you* a musician?

  • http://info.shine.com/Industry/1.aspx Your industry information guide

    Well, you cannot blame last.fm for this. Piracy is a real time threat and actions had to be taken. Hopefully, it will be back to normal once the issue has been sorted out.

  • Janiece

    If people are stealing U2′s work they should be prosecuted. Any company involved in the distribution of music should gladly help them out as it is against the law not to mention just bad karma to steal from people. For god sakes wait till the thing comes out and download your favorite song for a buck. If you can’t spare a buck for your own enjoyment go shoot yourself. Anyone who is a fan of U2 and stole their music should be ashamed of themselves for doing so and I hope they get caught.

  • Janiece

    I’m sure you wouldn’t be saying that if I came in and stole your computer or took whatever tools you use to make a living. Music theft sucks just as any other theft and the people who are in the business over distributing music should help each other in these cases to stop the illegal theft of property. I’m sure you would want the same help if you were the one who was being stolen from. If you aren’t aware by now that your internet use is always up for grabs then you just haven’t been paying attention.

  • Janiece

    It has never been legal to copy music, movies, etc and share them with anyone. You can’t even play them in a public place with out paying to do so. If you build tables for a living would you want 100′s of thousands of people to steal your tables or use them for free? I sure wouldn’t.

  • Eli

    How can I bury this as inaccurate. Oh wait, this isn’t Digg. Maybe someone should have verified that this was true before you put it on your website. You guys are scum for keeping it on here. You should honestly take this article down.

  • Franziskus

    i´m agreeing!!!!!

    techcrunch-potatoe give us facts not expectations!!!

  • DanPaul

    woooow, I hope this spreads and everyone deletes their account.

  • http://netzwertig.com/2009/02/23/linkwertig-spreadshirt-faz-roccatune-lastfm/ Linkwertig: Spreadshirt, FAZ, roccatune, Last.fm » netzwertig.com

    [...] Ein auf reinem Hörensagen basiertes Gerücht von TechCrunch hat dieses Wochenende Teile der Last.fm-Community verunsichert. Angeblich hätte Last.fm der [...]

  • cullen

    What a silly analogy. People who make tables create finite, physical objects which are intended for use by multiple people over long periods of time. And the table-maker has no say whether that table is used in a two-person home, a busy restaurant, or on a stage in front of 10,000 people. It would be difficult for you to have picked a WORSE thing to compare to digital replication of music.

  • http://musiknotizen.de/gibt-lastfm-benutzerdaten-an-die-musikindustrie-weiter/7 Gibt Last.fm Benutzerdaten an die Musikindustrie weiter? — MusikNotizen

    [...] Techcrunch kam gestern Abend mit der Meldung, dass der beliebte Musikdienst Last.fm Benutzerdaten an die RIAA weitergegeben hätte, damit diese die Hörer ausfindig machen könnte, die das geleakte neue U2-Album illegal heruntergeladen und gehört haben (”According to a tip we received.”). [...]

  • Miguel Espinoza
  • Laura Timmins

    RIAA denies rumors that Last.fm turned over user data

    Contrary to recent rumors, Last.fm did not hand over user data to the RIAA after U2′s yet-to-be-released album leaked online last week. In fact, no such request was even made, according to both the RIAA and Last.fm.

  • nope

    bye bye last.fm i killed my account.

  • http://tech.com techie

    I also deleted my accs

  • http://dsingleton.co.uk David Singleton

    TC’s poor commenting system won’t let me reply yo your other post (Asking why we didn’t have PR moving on Friday afternoon):

    For us, in London, this broke around midnight on Friday night.

    Considering it’s been the weekend for us for the length of this debacle it’s not surprising that most official responses have been “this is utter toss” from staff on _our_ forums, on Twitter, in comments here, or directly contacting TechCrunch.

  • http://www.ramasse.com Add

    Wow no facts, no proof, just pure rumor. Say goodbye to my rss feeds TC.

  • http://www.technovia.co.uk/2009/02/techcrunch-irresponsible-journalism.html TechCrunch posts lies, refuses to apologise | Technovia

    [...] The one thing I will say, though, is that TechCrunch has behaved irresponsible: not so much for the original story – everyone gets it wrong sometimes. But when you get it wildly wrong like this, what you [...]

  • http://dsingleton.co.uk David Singleton

    The original article was posted around midnight on Friday night (London time).

    It’s hardly surprising that there hasn’t been an immediate “official” statement. Weekends aren’t the best time to have to deal with a PR shit storm over a made up story.

  • http://socialmediainfluence.com/2009/02/23/techcrunch-loses-listeners-for-lastfm/ TechCrunch loses listeners for Last.fm | socialmediainfluence.com

    [...] at TechCrunch stirred up a hornet’s nest over the weekend with a post suggesting that Last.fm had handed over user listener data to the RIAA – an allegation that prompted Last.fm founder Richard Jones to come out with guns blazing in the [...]

  • http://www.andysnotebook.com Andy Davies

    So still no apology, no oops we got it wrong…

    Just a stack of updates to try to defend yourself and slur last.fm

    TC is so full of shit.

    Your supposed to report the news not be the news

  • http://spanish.livecrunch.com/2009/02/rumor-de-lastfm-desmentido/ Rumor de Last.fm Desmentido | Livecrunch Español

    [...] RIAA denies rumors…- Ars Technica [...]

  • FranieFrouFrou

    Other sites have also posted the RIAA denial update. Why haven’t you? http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2009/02/riaa-denies-rumors-that-lastfm-turned-over-data.ars You’ve done untold damage to the reputation of Last.FM by printing rumours. Highly irresponsible and makes me question whether I should be using TechCrunch as a reliable news source in future. Probably not!

  • http://alexangas.wordpress.com Alex Angas

    “From the very beginning, I’ve presented this story for what it is: a rumor.”

    What excellent journalistic skills you display, sir!

  • http://feedingthepuppy.typepad.com john v willshire

    Wow, after a few minutes thinking that I should really ditch last.fm for band & personal purposes, it turns out that this story is, well… what? Scaremongering at best?

    What a valued, reliable news source this is becoming.. thanks guys.

  • Martin

    I have a lot of scrobbles on the new album. But I got them using Spotify, listening legally to the album. Will that count as illeagal? Don’t think so.

  • http://www.7digital.com MU

    Not read the whole list of comments, so apologies if this has already been said, but given that the RIAA could have looked here:

    http://www.last.fm/music/U2/No+Line+on+the+Horizon/+listeners

    and got the data themselves, what is the big deal?

  • Steve

    Musicians do not need record labels in this day and age, which is why they see themselves clambering over the last bit of income they can generate. Fact is, musicians make money from touring, even in small little local clubs, than record sales. Similarly, we have a culture where music isn’t ‘valuable’ now – magazines and newspapers give away free albums – and we also have a problem of people now being able to buy the single they like for $.99 rather than pay $9.99 for the entire album just to get that one song.

    The statistics for illegal downloads are estimates – they don’t necessarily take into account legally shared free music, royalty-free MP3s, etc. They also don’t take into account people listening once and deleting, using them as a previewing service, which is in effect replacing radio stations as a way of previewing music. It tends not to paint a valid picture – the non-existent singles market is now absolutely thriving, to the detriment of the sales of more expensive albums.

    Even popular musicians like Kelly Clarkson, who’s experienced her fair share of record label issues, says she wants her music to be heard any which way, because it means she can continue to tour. If she stopped selling records, but continued to get loads of illegal downloads and people discovering her music and wanting to see her on tour, she’d continue to make money.

  • http://popurls.com/pop popurls.com | popular today

    popurls.com | popular today…

    story has entered the popular today section on popurls.com…

  • d

    the RIAA act on behalf of the content owners.

  • Graham Anderson

    Perhaps listening to U2 turns you into a Twittering fag Last.fm scrobbler? http://www.towleroad.com/2009/02/techcrunch-post.html

  • http://thc.sadtuna.org l3ssthanz3ro

    Now it’s time to unsubscribe from the TC feed, not from last.fm… Unreliable piece of shit you are, that is for sure…

  • http://rodrigojames.com/?p=6537 Baixou o U2? Problemas à vista at Rodrigo James

    [...] out users who downloaded U2’s No Line on the Horizon when it leaked last week. According to Techcrunch, rumors circulated that the CBS-owned Last.fm provided the RIAA with the user information of people [...]

  • Anonymous

    You can’t steal something digital. There’s no loss of a physical object. Nice try though.

    Excuse me while I go download the U2 CD because I can, but refuse to listen to it because they’re dumbasses and their music sucks. Have I still caused a loss in profit?

  • http://www.asianmandan.com Asian Dan
  • TC BSing again

    just in case anyone still believes this rubbish, last.fm have posted on their blog
    http://blog.last.fm/

  • Real Name

    youre a prick and you have no standards

  • http://discodust.blogspot.com/ aleks discodust

    what a wack article. i don’t want to imagine how much this damages last.fm’s reputation. techcrunch is acting completely irresponsible right here.

    on the other hand: every last.fm user should be aware that their music listening behaviour could be harvested and analyzed by external tools using the last.fm/audioscrobbler api or html scraping. but that’s nothing compared to the accusations you guys have written down here.

    last.fm users: scrobble responsibly.
    techcrunch writers: write responsibly.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian_Betteridge/703411365 Ian Betteridge

    Technically, libel – slander is spoken words, libel written ones.

  • http://thenextweb.com/2009/02/23/lastfm-officially-respond-techcrunch-calls-full-shit/ Last.fm officially respond to Techcrunch. Calls them “full of shit”. – The Next Web

    [...] posted a story on Friday claiming Last.fm ‘may’ have given the RIAA (Recording Industry [...]

  • Clive

    What a load for techcrunch, would take Last.fm’s word over techcrunch any day of the week.

  • Richard

    Well done Erick for another bollocks post based on fiction. 15 Year old editorial intern could have done better.

  • http://www.shembooth.com Shem

    Ive unistalled the software and never letting CBS them or anyone else look into my computer

  • ChrisJ

    Well done for trying to ruin the reputation of a successful, useful service through unsubstantiated lies, what a novel approach

  • Paul Anthony

    I’m so disappointed in TC.

  • Ian Kenefick

    TechCrunch, consider yourself unbookmarked!

  • http://last.fm Last.fm

    Techcrunch is full of shit

  • Sam Davyson

    I won’t be coming back here for Tech News anymore. I think you’ve crossed the line. Making the mistake is one thing. Not apologising or taking it back is another.

  • spengbab

    Oh dear TechCrunch has massively failed, idiots.

  • http://geeknotnerd.com/2009/02/23/lastfm-and-techcrunch-traid-blows/ Last.FM and TechCrunch Traid Blows! « Geek Not Nerd

    [...] denied it vehemently on the Techcrunch article, as did several other Last.fm staffers. We denied it in the Last.fm [...]

  • Paul

    TechCrunch’s articles over the past few months have made me wonder why I read them. This latest instance of inappropriate rumor-spreading is a good reason to delete the feed from Google Reader.

    No wonder people spit on Michael Arrington.

  • Gdub

    TechCrunch, your tenuous status as a tech authority has taken another hit. Do your homework for once, will you??

  • Adam P
  • Tudor

    scrobblles on last.fm can’t be evidence that music was illegaly downloaded, one can easily modify the tags of any audio file and make it look as if he played unreleased tracks

  • http://www.jacktams.co.uk/2009/02/23/lastfm-vs-techcrunch/ last.fm vs TechCrunch – jacktams.co.uk

    [...] TechCrunch Article [...]

  • ./skot

    I think that is about the last straw for me and reading TechCrunch. Bye now and enjoy your time as the internet’s National Enquirer.

    Call me if you ever get some form of journalistic standard or fact checking protocol.

  • Trent

    I’m quite amazed about how crap has become Tech Crunch..i used to rely to it as my favourite website, the best indipendent source for tech news. To be honest nowadays it feels more like some sort of web tabloid, big talking but small facts. The more annoying thing is how it’s voice became assuming and pretentious.
    But i’m even more amazed by all those readers that, regardless their trust in this website or last.fm, are taking for granted that any information thrown at them without any source or reliable fact, must be The Universal Truth. So this should be the average tech savy readers? people that ignore even the most basic principles of information? even a small article on wikipedia would be formally more reliable than this tech crunch blathering…
    Bah..

  • DavidW

    This is why you can’t trust most blogs. There is no such thing as vetting a story. They take a rumor and run with it trying to turn it into a story. It’s not journalism or reporting, it’s rumor mongering!

  • Trent

    I’m quite amazed about how bad has become Tech Crunch..i used to rely to it as my favourite website, the best indipendent source for tech news. To be honest nowadays it feels more like some sort of web tabloid, big talking but small facts. The more annoying thing is how it’s voice became assuming and pretentious.
    But i’m even more amazed by all those readers that, regardless their trust in this website or last.fm, are taking for granted that any information thrown at them without any source or reliable fact, must be The Universal Truth. So this should be the average tech savy readers? people that ignore even the most basic principles of information? even a small article on wikipedia would be formally more reliable than this tech crunch blathering…
    Bah..

  • http://cussedout.com Cussing

    Techcrunch is turning into the National Enquirer for Tech Gossip. It doesn’t matter if it’s true. They run it anyways. Why? Because they are no longer relevant to their mission statement.

    Most OVERRATED BLOG and Time agrees.

    http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1879276_1879093_1879075,00.html

    NO INTEGRITY…. Gossip rag.

  • lame

    So where’s the apology? Quit obfuscating by pretending that there are some important “follow-ups” that add credibility to your article.

  • Gdub
  • http://cussedout.com Cussing

    If they have lost business due to you spreading an unsubstantiated rumor. I would believe they could sue your asses. And should.

  • sean

    fuck off techcrunch retards

  • http://www.livecrunch.com/2009/02/23/last-fm-pissed-off-because-of-techcrunch/ Last FM pissed off because of TechCrunch

    [...] off about TechCrunch post (here) because they wrote how Last.FM is providing data to RIAA post (here). What can I say? This does not surprise me that stuff like this come from TC Authors, yet again [...]

  • http://www.livecrunch.com/2009/02/23/last-fm-pissed-off-because-of-techcrunch/ Last FM pissed off because of TechCrunch

    [...] off about TechCrunch post (here) because they wrote how Last.FM is providing data to RIAA post (here). What can I say? This does not surprise me that stuff like this come from TC Authors, yet again [...]

  • http://www.goldencomm.com Bill Novak

    According to Richard Jones @ Last, he thinks this artice and Techcrunch is full fo shit.

    http://blog.last.fm/2009/02/23/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit

  • http://benwerd.com/2009/02/lastfm-isnt-selling-your-data-to-the-riaa-apparently/ Ben Werdmuller » Last.fm isn’t selling your data to the RIAA, apparently

    [...] other day, Techcrunch claimed that the music site Last.fm (which I’m a heavy user of) was beginning to hand over listening data to the RIAA. Last.fm works by “scrobbling” every track you play to a log, which is then used to [...]

  • http://www.goldencomm.com Bill Novak
  • http://www.bram.us/2009/02/23/breaking-techcrunch-are-full-of-shit/ Bram.us » Breaking: Techcrunch are full of shit

    [...] HQ strikes back after those false rumors about them teaming up with the RIAA Spread the [...]

  • Chris

    On Saturday night your justification for sticking with this story was that you hadn’t had a categorical denial (despite the forum post from Russ which began “I’d like to issue a full and categorical denial of this”), and that you didn’t think you could determine this to be absolutely false.

    Why, then, most of a working day after the RIAA issue a statement saying that this didn’t happen, and after the Last.fm official blog has been updated with a complete denial of this (and no sign of a “to our knowledge” or anything similar this time for you to try to wriggle out with), are you still running this? Last.fm’s privacy policy says it can’t happen, Russ Garrett’s contacted you to tell you what data is available to labels (nothing identifiable), the RIAA have said it didn’t happen, and Last.fm have unequivocally said that it didn’t happen and that “TechCrunch is full of shit”. That’s about as absolute as it can get, now show a bit of integrity for the first time and admit you’ve got it wrong.

  • http://mtippett.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/lastfm-techcrunch-are-full-of-shit/ Last.fm: “Techcrunch are full of shit” « mtippett

    [...] denied it vehemently on the Techcrunch article, as did several other Last.fm staffers. We denied it in the Last.fm [...]

  • http://thesocialgraph.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/lastfm-techcrunch-are-full-of-shit/ Last.fm: “Techcrunch are full of shit” « The Social Graph

    [...] denied it vehemently on the Techcrunch article, as did several other Last.fm staffers. We denied it in the Last.fm [...]

  • http://jaymoonah.com Jay Moonah

    “But most probably never even considered it a possibility that individually identifiable information about their listening habits (legal, illegal, or otherwise) could be handed over to an organization known for taking consumers to court for file-sharing.”

    Except that one of the MAIN REASON one signs up for last.fm is so that people can view what tracks they are listening and they can view those of others. That’s actually what the service does. It would be a bit like saying “many users of Google’s search may not have considered it a possibility that using it may ultimately send them to websites not controlled by Google.”

    I’m not totally sure the guy who wrote this has ever used last.fm or visited their site. That’s a shame, ‘cus it’s really quite good! BTW I’m at http://www.last.fm/user/musicface if you want to look me up there.

  • bigphan

    totally agree here. amazing how a story based purely on rumor and assumption carries an accusatory tone. irresponsible journalism – if you can actually call it that

  • Picu

    “Techcrunch are full of shit.” Die

  • http://www.badooble.com/archives/techcrunch-spreads-rumors-about-lastfm-offers-no-retraction/167/ BADOOBLE » Blog Archive » TechCrunch Spreads Rumors About Last.fm, Offers No Retraction

    [...] accused Last.fm of feeding user data to the RIAA last Friday.  Last.fm has issued several forceful denials, [...]

  • http://blog.last.fm/2009/02/23/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit Rory

    “Techcrunch are full of shit.”

  • http://www.windows7tweaks.info/ Daniel

    The rumor here is that Techcrunch is full of shit! See last fm’s blog, arstechnica etc.

  • http://soloudinhere.wordpress.com Dylan

    TechCrunch is such a big fucking joke now. Just give up.

  • http://kkckmusicnews.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/music-news-2232009/ Music News 2/23/2009 « KKCK Music News (and more)

    [...] Last.fm asks their users to take a chill pill. [...]

  • Ryan

    Wow…Techrunch is just another sh*tty tabloid isn’t it. Just trying to get more hits with inflammatory headlines with little to no substance.

  • So Sad

    You crack-heads. May your warm milk suddenly turn to pee. May your heads turn to buttlerflies and fly away free.

    Some poor folks decided to nix last.fm based on your silliness. Not I. I shal nix you for your unethical and shameful journalism.

    IBCNUL8R

  • http://www.dondahlmann.de/?p=130 Techcrunch & last.fm – Irgendwas ist ja immer – Reloaded

    [...] berichtete dann am Freitag, dass Universal erzürnt über den Leak, nun Userdaten von last.fm eingefordert [...]

  • http://kurofune.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/be-afraid/ Be Afraid « Black Ships

    [...] Regardless of whether this rumor is true, this represents a loss of innocence for last.fm users. Realistically, anybody who used the service [...]

  • Carl

    TechCrunch is full of shit.

  • Aleks

    Quoting Last.fm:

    http://blog.last.fm/2009/02/23/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit

    “Tech Crunch is full of shit.”

  • http://14sandwiches.com/2009/02/23/forget-lastfm-techcrunch-and-the-riaa-the-real-scandals-in-ireland/   Forget Last.fm, Techcrunch and the RIAA, the real scandal’s in Ireland by 14sandwiches

    [...] the weekend a storm in a teacup raged over Techcrunch’s claim that Last.fm had given data to the RIAA to allow the music industry body to identify which users of [...]

  • http://armu.de/?p=90 Trackt die RIAA Raubkopierer mit Last.FM Scrobble-Daten? (UPDATE: Techcrunch talking Bullshit) « World Blog

    [...] Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? [...]

  • Ikcor

    Newsflash: Tech Crunch is selling your comment emails to spammers.

  • http://www.infohole.com/blog/about Gordon Page

    POS Techcrunch. Crappy article, crappy handling of the situation it caused.

  • lol

    I pitty you techcrunch, Im a hardcore last.fm user and the data is theire service. Duh! And btw, the they have some awesome privacy issues. And you have more affiliations with scary companies like FOX really shoud be more quiet.

  • adam
  • john peters

    last time a read a techcrunch article. they don’t even acknowledge their mistakes. I don’t come here to listen to rumors. I need facts and info and news. Not gossip. I’m going else where.

  • S

    Looks like you won’t be saying good bye after all.

    http://blog.last.fm/2009/02/23/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit

  • KJ

    Now I remember why I stopped reading this terrible tech blog. Struggling blog? Sensationalist story = ad clicks. Sounds like desperation to me.

  • http://myphillynetwork.com/archives/1102 MyPhillyNetwork » Did Techcrunch Just Release The Biggest Rumor Of 2009 So Far?

    [...] The Biggest Rumor Of 2009 So Far? By Anthony F. February 23, 2009 Image via CrunchBase On Friday night a technology blog called Techcrunch posted a vicious and completely false rumour about us: [...]

  • Voice of Reason

    Is it really any surprise? This blog is nothing but the vehicle for unsubstantiated rumors, and I hope this time it gets hit with a Libel suit, which is ABSOLUTELY a viable legal option.

    Why not try some actual journalism?

  • http://www.tou.ch/blog/2009/02/23/lastfm-meint-techcrunch-are-full-of-shit/ Last.fm meint “Techcrunch are full of shit” | tou.ch – alles was berührt

    [...] of shit” wehrt sich Last.fm gegen einen Beitrag auf Techcrunch. Techcrunch hatte in ” Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?“geschrieben, dass Last.fm Nutzerdaten an die Recording Industry Association of America RIAA [...]

  • Areus

    They post shit like this and wonder why they get spit on….

  • castle

    fuck you erick. fuck sissy boy and fuck TC. This blog has really hit the shitter in the past 3 weeks. the start of the end. so long TC

  • http://www.zeropuntodue.it/2009/02/techcrunch-scrive-un-sacco-di-stronzate.html 0.2 » TechCrunch scrive un sacco di stronzate

    [...] aveva postato negli scorsi giorni un articolo in cui paventava la possibilità che Last.fm, sulla base di una [...]

  • castle

    oh Erick you are not only full of shit you are sooooo fired. wait until you sissy boy boss gets back from his vacation; i bet your shitting your pants eh?? this is gonna be soo much fun to watch.

    tc is the only blog i know that makes te riaa look kinda nice

  • http://blog.last.fm/2009/02/23/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit Bored with writers that couldn’t make it as real journalists (you know fact-checking and all that)

    Is this really a surprise? The whole site is based on rumor just on the off chance that someone gets a scoop now and then. Of course, the devoted disciples of TechCrunch don’t seem to see through the “online journalism” facade that it has created. Well done to the marketing team, they succeeded at something.

  • castle

    ive just checked .. google returns 96k sites where one can find Techcrunch and shit.

    its official TC is FULL OF SHIT and Erik is sitting right in the middle of the biggest pile heheh

  • castle

    hang on whats twitter to do wth this?

  • castle

    not mine i fake it.

  • http://www.notix.com.mx/2009/02/23/rumores-en-internet-y-el-caso-lastfm-vs-techcrunch/ Rumores en internet y el caso Last.fm Vs Techcrunch | Notix.com.mx

    [...] a muerte” entre el mejor servicio de música online – Last.fm – y TechCrunch que publicó el rumor de que Last.fm estaba informando a la RIAA (equivalente en Estados Unidos a [...]

  • Jack

    I think he did comment on the article and how it demonstrates how TC continually distorts rumors and ignores basic journalistic principles.

    If there’s no meat to the article (that is, it’s a lie), then what is there for James to comment on other than the lie?

    How much current and future business will Last.fm lose based on this un-researched, un-corroborated lie? Do you see how many people are knee-jerk deleting their accounts?

    Shameful, TC. Really.

  • Jack

    I only come back to TechCrunch so that I can be sure to de-bunk their untrue stories to my friends before they become Internet memes. One person had already cancelled his Last.fm account when I pointed out that TC’s story is a lie.

    I think that Last.fm is holding all of the deleted accounts in stasis for a while, so if you deleted yours, they might be able to give it back.

    Shame TC. When will you post something pointing out that you were probably wrong? You can’t just update this post. The damage has been done.

    If you have any integrity left, TechCrunch, you’ll post about this incident. You don’t need to fall on your swords if you still think you’re correct, but this lie you’ve started is all over the Internet. What is your reaction beyond a crippled “update” to this post from last week?

  • Jack

    Metallica might care, but most musicians don’t.

    Everyday musicians prefer the exposure, which leads to paying gigs. Most musicians don’t want record deals. Unfortunately, most people have only heard of the musicians who do want record deals, not those who want to make music.

    I’m not saying musicians with record deals aren’t “real musicians” or have sold out. But, again, you haven’t heard of and will never hear of most (meaning more than 50%) of musicians in the world.

  • Jack

    It’s even worse than that. An anonymous friend of an anonymous tipster might have told Tech Crunch something that probably isn’t true. (Or Tech Crunch just made it up.)

    And now they’ve shared it with you, under the guise of news.

  • broke

    I lost my respect for Techcrunch

  • Jack

    Tech Crunch is 100% wrong. Last.fm did NOT just hand over user listening data to the RIAA under the terms that Tech Crunch describes here.

    Not at all. It’s a lie. It is not a half-truth. It’s a lie. The damage is done, though, and Tech Crunch got a healthy check from their advertisers for all the page views generated by this lie.

  • http://www.musicreviewzone.com/2009/02/23/lastfm-respond-to-user-data-uproar/ Last.fm Respond to User Data Uproar in Music News by Music Review Zone

    [...] intimated in their post : Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? that a CBS employee, Last.fm’s parent company, was furious that user had been handed over to [...]

  • Jack

    He’ll probably get a promotion along with that Wauters chap who posts homophobic slurs then pretends it was an accident.

  • Jack

    I hadn’t even thought of that. It makes this whole story so much worse.

    Retraction? Update in a new post? Come on, TC, try to fix some of the baseless damage you’ve done to Last.fm.

  • Jack

    They were scared by this slanderous post. Not everyone knows that TC has shoddy reputation as far as reporting baseless rumors goes.

    Last.fm is being really good about this whole thing, and stopping people’s data from being deleted over TC’s irresponsibility is really cool.

  • Jack

    Be that as it may, that is not what Erick reported or said. This article makes it sound like Last.fm pulled up lots of personal data on their users, linked it with the publicly available data, packaged it up for the RIAA and handed it over.

    This is a lie.

  • Robin

    So if you are not a lawyer then your advice is worthless. Your “advice” that anything published and accessed by a UK audience is dangerous is based on your hysterical and racist view of the “british” empire.

  • Robin

    @David Singleton maybe you shouldnt spend friday night in the pub then , hehe

    but does last.fm shut down for the weekend. It not worth a response, seems strange and still no real denial yet either

  • Andrew

    Why isn’t this story hidden from the front page? Is it because you got something MASSIVELY wrong and are trying to cover it up?

    ALSO Stop trying to pull this backpedaling crap… You specifically mention identifying users individually in your article, you weren’t referring to aggregate data provided to the RIAA… Don’t throw your hands up in the air saying that was all you meant…

  • Jack

    Thanks, Marsha and Shmelvis! It’s the first I’ve heard this! I hope a blog picks this up. People really need to know. I assume it’s true, because I heard it from two anonymous commenters on TechCrunch. That’s enough to base a story on, right?

  • winnarboy

    LOL where is the apology for being a supreme FUCK UP?

    It’s awesome that you are at least man enough to post updates, but i’m ready to see a post of ‘Hey, I fucked up because i’m a big fucking moron that doesn’t check my sources. My buddy on IRC hit me up and told me this, and i’m a big fucking moron for writing a bullshit post on it’.. Do it pussy..

  • Jack

    And I think the quote from Last.fm is: “Techcrunch are full of sh*t.” Why aren’t they printing that one? Sorry for the language, but that’s a quote, so…

    http://blog.last.fm/2009/02/23/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit

  • Jack

    Don’t lump him in with gay people! Most of the ones I know have integrity.

  • Jack

    Here is what they said on their blog. Cut Last.fm some slack. This was posted over the weekend, so it took them some time to counter TC’s lies.

    http://blog.last.fm/2009/02/23/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit

  • Jack

    And for those of you who said, “So what if TC lied. Last.fm will recover when the truth comes out.”

    The bell can’t be unrung, and TC owes Last.fm a huge post/retraction/update/corroboration.

    This story is a lie, but if TC has more info, they need to post it. If they don’t, they need to come clean. Their silence is letting this rumor spread all over the internet. I’m sure it will get syndicated out, and Last.fm will continue to suffer from this shoddy journalism.

  • Jack

    OK, then read this. It is very, very firm. If TC hadn’t posted this on a Friday (very late in the UK), then Last.fm might have been able to respond more quickly.

    http://blog.last.fm/2009/02/23/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit

  • Techcrunch is FULL OF SHIT.

    You are so full of shit. Boycott TechCrunch!

  • http://alexisgonzalezlopez.com/blog/?p=13 Last.fm RIAA Controversy – Alexis Gonzalez’s Blog

    [...] Alexis on Feb.23, 2009, under JOUR 232 Friday night the popular blog Techcrunch made a post hurling allegations at Last.fm. The post accused Last of handing over user data to the [...]

  • Jack

    The story’s not true. All these “ifs” are misleading. RIAA and Last.fm have firmly denied this all over the internet. The meme is getting picked up anyway.

    TC, retraction? Update? Corroboration? Anything?

  • Jack

    They shouldn’t have the power to make or break anything until they clean up their journalistic standards. That’s the real shame here.

    It’s as if I became the leading word on ornithology. I can’t tell a woodpecker from a hummingbird, but I know more about that than TC does about startups and online music, apparently.

  • Jack

    The big deal is that the article is a lie, but people are believing it and, worse, spreading it. There’s the problem.

  • Jack

    It’s not a “he said she said” scenario. It’s a “libelous website said, respected website said”.

    This is like the evolution debate, in that there’s no debate here. There is only a lie from TC and a company caught in its crosshairs.

  • Jack

    I third that. I’m not sue-happy, but this is reckless irresponsibility that has already harmed Last.fm. Should they be the only victims of the shoddy journalism of this blog?

  • http://www.feedxtractor.com/rumores-en-internet-y-el-caso-lastfm-vs-techcrunch/ Rumores en internet y el caso Last.fm Vs Techcrunch | FeedXtractor

    [...] a muerte” entre el mejor servicio de música online – Last.fm – y TechCrunch que publicó el rumor de que Last.fm estaba informando a la RIAA (equivalente en Estados Unidos a [...]

  • Jack

    This is an excellent question, but the silence from TC is deafening.

    I really do want the answer to this one. Erick?

  • Jack

    This is the other problem with this post. How can we expect mainstream media to take bloggers seriously as journalists (believe me, some bloggers are hardcore journalists), when a big blog like TC does something like this?

    And with no retraction.

  • Jack

    If this “journalist” hadn’t called them up at midnight (UK) on Friday, perhaps there would have been a stronger response. I found a very firm denial of this on Last.fm’s official blog first thing this morning (Monday).

    This Erick guy couldn’t have waited until Monday for a response? I’ve waited for longer than that, and I only have a little tech review blog with 500 readers.

    How you can stand behind TechCrunch on this is really beyond me. This isn’t a snowflake. This is TC costing Last.fm users and money. Last.fm has employees. Those employees have families. This is a disgrace for blogging everywhere, and there’s no way around that.

  • Jack

    He did. It was an anonymous friend of an anonymous tipster or something just as trustworthy.

  • Jack

    And if I post a story titled “Did Agile Cyborg strangle children to death while pleasuring himself?” on a large blog, then mention “rumor” and “if” once or twice in the body of the article, is that good journalism?

    What about:

    “Update: Agile Cyborg “denies” this story.”

    Feel better?

  • Jack

    What do I expect?

    I expect that the story TC posted isn’t true and that other services like the one you posted will ake advantage of TC’s shoddy journalism to capture Last’fm’s users who don’t know that they can’t trust anything they read on TC.

    I wonder if TC has any financial connection to any of Last.fm’s competitors. Does anyone know?

  • Jack

    Or if you do, you retract them when you get called out, make a huge apology and try to re-estanlish trust with your readers. None of these are things that TC seems remotely interested in doing. Are there any editors over there seeing this? Why is there no response from them?

  • http://www.socialnetworkingwatch.com/2009/02/did-lastfm-hand-over-user-listening-data-to-the-riaa.html Social Networking Watch

    Did Last.fm Hand Over User Listening Data To The RIAA?…

    TECH CRUNCH — Feb 20 — According to a tip we received from an irate friend who works at CBS that last.fm recently provided the RIAA with a giant dump of user data to track down people who are scrobbling……

  • Jack

    This is bollocks, Tommy. So, TC can say whatever they want about whomever they want and it’s the victim’s responsibility to correct it?

    Last.fm doesn’t have to (and probably can’t) prove a negative. TC (and other “news” sources) do have a responsibility to prove their positive claims. This is basic logic.

  • Jack

    My guess as to why it took Last.fm LESS THAN ONE BUSINESS DAY to respond is that they take the time to consider their actions and run their statements by the legal team instead of just trashing whomever they’d like whenever they’d like.

  • Jack

    I heard the same rumour from an anonymous tipster earlier in this thread! Does anyone here have blog where we can explore this?

  • Jack

    You certainly can’t blame Last.fm. The article is a lie.

    The damage has already been done. I doubt Last.fm’s reputation will ever be back to normal completely. These rumors have a way of spiralling out to the kind of people who will never come back here to check out the update, especially since TC seems too cowardly to post a full update/retraction, not just a redaction to this post.

    I learned about it first on Twitter, and lots of people re-tweeted that they were closing their Last.fm accounts. Were those people being kind of dumb? Yeah, but be that as it may, Last.fm lost users which equal money.

  • http://www.techcrunch.com Robin Wauters

    Hey Jack, if your e-mail address is correct, check your inbox.

  • Jack

    Thanks, TC, for not just ruining Last.fm’s reputation with lies, but also the entire blogging profession in general.

    David, a lot of bloggers hold themselves to much higher standards than this one. It’s unfortunate that TC was in the right place at the right time so that they’re now considered an authority.

    TC, if you want to be a gossip rag, then by all means, do it. But stop pretending that’s not what you are.

  • Chris

    Seriously, just come clean and admit you got this one wrong. It would be illegal for them to give this information, considering the website’s privacy policy. The RIAA have specifically stated that not only did they not get this information, they’ve never even asked for it. Last.fm have stated (along with a comprehensive denial) on their official blog that “TechCrunch are full of shit”.

    Updating that “Last.fm vehemently denies this rumor” doesn’t do this situation justice. There’s no remaining reason (excluding delusional paranoia) for anybody to believe this is true.

    It’s been clear from day one that this was a non-story, every backpedalling update has made TC and Erick Schonfeld look more and more pathetic. An apology and retraction is what’s needed here, not a desperate (but doomed) attempt to save face by continuing to present it as though there’s doubt over whether or not it happened.

  • Jack

    Exactly! I only signed up for Last.fm so I could share my listening habits with others.

    Apparently, you don’t have to know anything about social media to write about social media. Hey, TC, are you hiring? It’ll hurt my personal brand to be associated with you, but I actually do know something about social media (like most of the commenters here), and I also know how to fact check.

    Did any of your bloggers get advanced degrees in anything? I would have been laughed out of university for pulling a stunt like this in a research paper.

  • Jack

    I think it’s TechCrunch’s e-mail inbox that’s overflowing.

    I got this from Robin Wauters a few minutes ago:


    “I’m one of the TechCrunch editors. I’ve been following your comments on the Last.fm post, just wanted to give you quick heads up to say Erick (the author of the post) is digging deeper into this. Might take a while for an update, though, sorry for that.”

    Shouldn’t Erick (the author of the post) have “dug deeper” before posting?

    TC, stop digging this hole and just apologize or offer some proof of your accusation. What’s the deal here?

  • Neo

    Wow. This place is like the Star Magazine of the net. Post rumors as fact and send ripples for a day or 2 until proven true/untrue. Then just move on.

    I need to come here more!

  • http://remixtures.com/2009/02/lastfm-um-bufo-ao-servio-da-riaa/ Last.fm: um ‘bufo’ ao serviço da RIAA? | Remixtures

    [...] esses ouvintes a um endereço IP, emal ou morada física. No entanto, na sexta-feira passada o TechCrunch divulgou um rumor baseado numa fonte confidencial anónima segundo o qual a subsidiária da CBS [...]

  • rob

    i love the TC YouTube Video Download tool, but i love Last.fm so much more …

    shame on you TC, shame on you

  • Jack

    “There will be no very public denial [...]”

    There was a very public denial (along with several unofficial denies over the weekend) within one business day of TC posting this lie.

    Will you chime back in now to tell us more about how Last.fm works? I’ve found them nothing but helpful, and I love the (free) service they provide. I even listen to my recommendations remotely via my iPhone (on Last.fm’s (free) iPhone app) no matter where I am. How’s that for providing service?

    Did I mention all of this is free? Have you actually used Last.fm?

  • Jack

    I did. Thank you for the response.

    But, if you have the time, I would like an answer to this question publicly: you said in your e-mail that Erick is now digging deeper into this. That’s a good idea. Why didn’t he (and the editors) dig deeper into this before posting the story? It’s a little late now, and the damage has been done to Last.fm.

    If you can now take the time to “dig deeper”, why didn’t you just wait until Monday to get an official and definitive statement from Last.fm?

    Thanks for reading this and the other comments. Surely you understand that it’s the silence and the lack of a retraction or even a new post about the situation that is causing so much anger. Everyone makes mistakes. Learn from Obama and admit them right away.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael_Grandfield/502252258 Michael Grandfield

    510 comments as of Monday evening. Wow. Just goes to show you don’t have to be right to get paid.

  • http://www.duncanriley.com/2009/02/24/maybe-i-live-in-a-moral-vacuum-defending-techcrunch-over-the-lastfm-riaa-post/ Maybe I live in a moral vacuum: defending TechCrunch over the Last.fm/ RIAA post

    [...] a storm in the blogosphere over a post Erick Schonfield made on TechCrunch last week alleging that Last.fm gave user data to the [...]

  • http://dailymarauder.com/2009/02/23/online-servicesinteractive-media-402/ ONLINE SERVICES/INTERACTIVE MEDIA « Daily Marauder

    [...] data about its user’s listening habits to find people with unreleased tracks on their computers. (http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/02/20/did-lastfm-just-hand-over-user-listening-data-to-the-riaa/ [...]

  • beatsme

    Whoa. You should be fired for this.

  • Jack

    There are martians in NJ?! Where’s my shotgun and cyanide pills! ;)

  • http://www.mathewingram.com/work/2009/02/23/journalism-or-irresponsible-rumour-mongering/ Journalism, or irresponsible rumour-mongering?

    [...] TechCrunch, one of the Web’s top tech blogs, sparked a firestorm of criticism with a recent story about Last.fm — the popular music-sharing network that CBS acquired last year — by [...]

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lachlan_Donald/561382189 Lachlan Donald

    Bleh, I’ve had enough of this poorly researched sensationalist crap. Consider me an ex-reader, TechCrunch.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people//1634460019 fb1634460019

    Why has this post still not been fully retracted? This is completely pathetic journalism at it’s finest, and there’s not even an apology.

    All the updates to this post are basically “oh shit, we screwed up, but look – there’s still a tiny bit of ambiguity that makes us look good in the end!” because Erick knows he fucked up big time, yet he’s trying to make it look like he didn’t.

    What the fuck?

  • wigger mcgavin
  • http://pateandopiedras.com/buzzeando/?p=961 y Techcrunch perdiendo credibilidad | Buzzeando

    [...] tanto, luego de que Times lo considere el blog más sobrevalorado para 2009; un reporte falso de Techcrunch sobre last.fm entregando información personal a la RIAA hizo que muchos usuarios borren sus cuenta; y parece que la cantidad de usuarios abandonando el [...]

  • anonymous coward

    “Despite my attempts to corroborate it and the subsequent detail I’ve been able to gather, I still don’t have enough information to determine whether it is absolutely true. But I still don’t have enough information to determine that it is absolutely false either. What I do have are a lot of unanswered questions about how exactly Last.fm shares user data with the record industry.”

    does this mean that any rumor i start about techcrunch, if i don’t know is false, can be spread? issue an apology already for all this nonsense. you were wrong. now don’t post unconfirmed rumors from anonymous sources again.

  • joe

    TechCrunch are full of shit.

  • Paul

    Techcrunch is like the foxnews of technology.

  • Jack

    Are you reading this Robin Wauters and Erick Schoenfeld?

    This is a homophobic remark sparked by an “error” you made weeks ago. (Click through to be reminded.) Actions have consequences. You can’t just post anything willy-nilly and then say “oops” when you hurt other people and companies.

    In the first case, you’re feeding prejudice and giving bigots fodder to make comments like the one above.

    In the second, you’ve accused a respected company of screwing over its users based solely on a third-party rumor.

    If you were one guy blogging in a basement, I’d make a nasty comment on your post and move on – free speech, and all that. But read your About page (http://www.techcrunch.com/about-techcrunch/). Surely you hold yourself to a higher standard.

    And if you don’t, let us know. Maybe this story has only upset so many people because our expectations of you were too high?

  • betsy ross

    anyone listening to the new u2 album should be prosecuted just for listening to u2.

  • kenji

    Hey, TechCrunch.

    The internets tells me that you guys are full of shit! Or maybe it’s just Erick that’s full of shit and needs to stop writing… but hey, that’s why you guys are just a blog.

  • http://parislemon.com/2009/02/on-being-full-of-shit.html ParisLemon » On Being Full of Shit

    [...] hot eruption of Bitchmeme has happened over the past few days starting when TechCrunch wrote a story about Last.fm sending its listener data to the RIAA supposedly to find out what naughty children [...]

  • richa

    this is worse than fluff journalism

  • http://musingmarc.blogspot.com Marc Brooks

    You owe Last.FM a public, FRONT PAGE apology for this.

  • http://blogs.dummies.com/internet/2009/02/23/whos-listening-anyway/ The Internet » Blog Archive » Who’s Listening Anyway?

    [...] blog Techcrunch reported over the weekend that music service Last.fm may have given the RIAA information about those users of Audioscrobbler [...]

  • http://iamrajendra.wordpress.com/2009/02/24/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit/ “Techcrunch are full of shit” « I Am Rajendra – Watch The World With Me…..

    [...] denied it vehemently on the Techcrunch article, as did several other Last.fm staffers. We denied it in the Last.fm [...]

  • Tommy

    I sincerely hope Last.FM takes legal action against the arrogant so-called journalists who write for Tech Crunch. You guys don’t care about people, about morality, about checking your facts…as long as it makes a good story for Tech Crunch. As of today I am deleting the Tech Crunch feed from my RSS reader. I hope you guys are proud of yourselves. Now be reasonable and post a retraction.

  • http://www.gexiaofei.com/20090224554.html “Techcrunch are full of shit” | 葛小飞

    [...] “Techcrunch are full of shit” Feb 24th, 2009 by 葛小飞 (Twitter ID:feir)分类:互联星空 标题是套用的是一篇博客标题,是last.fm与Techrunch口水战中last.fm的反击口号。故事过程可以简单归纳成这样:Techcrunch错误的传播了一个谣言,last.fm进行了严厉反击。 [...]

  • http://www.gadgetfun.net/lastfm-accused-of-handing-u2-album-leak-user-data-to-the-riaa.html GadgetFun.Net » Last.fm accused of handing U2 album leak user data to the RIAA

    [...] then it’s possible that the RIAA know exactly who you are, if you believe Techcrunch who got all in a tizzy on Friday over the suggestion that Last.fm has been handing over listener data to the record [...]

  • AnonymousCoward

    “Techcrunch are full of shit”

  • last FM

    guess tech crunch has nothing to psot now. so its spreading rumors to depress people.
    Who is responsible for all the un installing and re installing
    tech crunch is acting like a bitch which just start barking widout confirming who the person is.

  • Brendan

    techcrunch is a piece of shit

  • DC

    You’re right about some people not getting it. 40 billion downloads is not the same as 40 billion lost sales, for two reasons. First, plenty of people who download an album or song buy the album or song. Second, not everyone who downloads an album, if the choice were buying the album or nothing, would buy the album.

    The other reason for the drop in CD sales, as quoted by the various industry press, is DVD sales and games increasing, and eating into disposable incomes.

  • http://dev.null Rowley

    STOP GIVING MONEY TO U2
    I really do not know why U2 still get the airplay let alone the attention.
    Its not as if they really need any more money, don’t they own half of Ireland already?

    The album is tired and monotonous by the way.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve_Basile/1525517771 Steve Basile

    To all of you who knee-jerked the cancellation of your last.fm accounts, good riddance. You may be too ignorant to use a computer. Read this http://blog.last.fm/2009/02/23/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit and about 75% of the comments and consider what an idiot you might be. This article typist (can’t really call him a journalist, now can we?) makes Sarah Lacy look professional and competent.

  • http://maphoto.lautre.net/wordpress/archives/1144 Ma News du Jour » Blog Archive » “No Line On The Horizon’, nouvel album de U2 en Streaming gratuit le 3 Mars sur MySpaceMusic

    [...] web ces dernières 24H à propos du nouvel album de U2 qui serait déjà disponible sur bittorrent. LastFm aurait également été impliqué (précipitamment) dans cette affaire. Toujours est-il que ce nouvel album No Line On The Horizon [...]

  • Ian

    ” I’ve presented this story for what it is: a rumor. ”

    So Techcrunch is a rumour mill and not a fact site. Thats your credibility out of the window and in the drain. If you have a rumour, you don;t publish it until its a fact. Journalism 101.

    Were you put up to discredit Lastfm by one of their competitors?

  • Clearly Left

    Both Last.fm and Pandora are hurting and can’t figure out what the business is. Where’s the money? I say blame iTunes (only place I see cash!) http://www.headlineshirts.net/i-blame-itunes-t-shirt.html

  • Ian

    He is commenting on the article especially about its lack of facts which is required for a good article

  • blah

    what someone has said above about the metadata (song names, etc) easily being incorrect is true. I’ve even deliberately altered the tags on some crap girly albums my girlfriend listens to through my comp, cos I didnt want them to pollute my profile (which is mostly death metal stuff), and I can’t be arsed switching the scrobbling off every time she puts her junk in my playlist.

  • daniel Clarke
  • http://www.blogherald.com/2009/02/24/techcrunch-rumor-control-failure-brings-out-the-torches/ TechCrunch Rumor Control Failure Brings Out the Torches | The Blog Herald

    [...] Thord Daniel Hedengren TechCrunch is feeling the heat from Erick Schonfeld’s story on Last.fm handing over data to the RIAA. Which got a pretty harsh denial, and to [...]

  • http://ebayweb.com Sebq

    rumors = free advertising

  • Ian

    Maybe this POS “article” was posted to create page impressions. So techcrunch are happy and thats why they aren’t retracting it. Either that or they haven’t any integrity (the latter is my choice)

  • Dave King

    I read that Techcrunch shot JFK… and JR! And they haven’t denied it!

  • http://netzwertig.com/2009/02/24/falschmeldungen-und-hysterie-die-risiken-des-echtzeitwebs/ Falschmeldungen und Hysterie: Die Risiken des Echtzeitwebs » netzwertig.com

    [...] Beispiel dafür ist die Ende vergangener Woche veröffentlichte Behauptung, das Social Music Network Last.fm hätte Angaben über den Konsum illegal heruntergeladener Musik [...]

  • Sprae

    It’s time to stop commenting, delete your Techcrunch RSS, bookmarks, etc. and stay away from this self-serving crap.

  • Brian

    Even though this article may be trashy journalism, it does point out one thing that is valid. Scrobbling is dangerous to your rights. Last.fm’s scrobbler collects played statistics about every song you play on your computer (legal or not). So, for example, if you do play an unreleased leaked track on your computer, that data is stored and collected by Last.fm.

    Whether or not Last.fm hands that data over to a third party is immaterial (see below). The fact is that Last.fm has this information and it could be used against you. If you plan to actively locate and download unreleased ‘leaked’ tracks, it’s probably best to not scrobble. In fact, it’s probably even wiser to not install Last.fm’s scrobbler to outright prevent these issues entirely. Clearly, when you install the scrobbler, you agree to give up your listening habits to Last.fm.

    Remember that CBS now owns Last.fm. CBS also owns CBS Records. CBS Records may be part of the RIAA. CBS also has direct access to Last.fm’s data… hello, they own it. CBS Records was also affiliated with Sony not too long ago. So, the listening data doesn’t necessarily have to be passed through the RIAA to be passed around the music industry to other record labels.

  • Marcos El Malo

    Would that be the principle of unfounded rumor or the principle of irresponsible journalism?

  • Marcos El Malo

    They put a question mark at the end of the headline, so that makes it OK.

    Jon Gruber blogged about this on Daring Fireball. The headline to his post is “Does TechCrunch Publish Scurrilous Unsubstantiated Bullshit but Lamely Attempt to Cover Their Asses by Ending Their Sensational Headlines With Question Marks?”

  • http://maphoto.lautre.net/wmu/blog/2009/02/24/mika/ Blogs » Blog Archive » “No Line On The Horizon’, nouvel album de U2 en Streaming gratuit le 3 Mars sur MySpaceMusic

    [...] web ces dernières 24H à propos du nouvel album de U2 qui serait déjà disponible sur bittorrent. LastFm aurait également été impliqué (précipitamment) dans cette affaire. Toujours est-il que ce nouvel album No Line On The Horizon [...]

  • http://www.pousta.com/2009/02/24/en-lastfm-no-borres-tu-cuenta-porque-techcrunch-esta-lleno-de-mierda/ En Last.fm no borres tu cuenta porque Techcrunch está lleno de mierda « Pousta

    [...] viernes, uno de los sitios nerds más visitados del planeta, inventó un rumor más que falso sobre nuestro querido Last.fm. Según ellos, Last trackeaba a [...]

  • http://11k2.wordpress.com/2009/02/24/der-koch-der-dieb-lastfm-und-das-neue-u2-album/ Der Koch, der Dieb, Last.fm und das neue U2-Album « 11k2

    [...] (ars technica, last.fm, techcrunch) [...]

  • http://freshzweinull.de/2009/02/neues-u2-album-techcrunch-wirft-lastfm-preisgabe-von-nutzerdaten-vor/ Neues U2-Album: Techcrunch wirft Last.fm Preisgabe von Nutzerdaten vor | freshzweinull +++

    [...] Streit zwischen dem US-Blog Techcrunch und Last.fm: Der Online-Musikdienst dementiert vehement einen Bericht von Techcrunch, er habe Nutzerdaten an den Rechteverwerter RIAA (das US-Pendant zur deutschen GEMA) [...]

  • http://community.brandrepublic.com/blogs/aop2008/archive/2009/02/24/blame-bono.aspx Blame Bono – Digital Blogger – Blogs – Brand Republic

    [...] Forum (amid apparent threats against himself and his family), co-editor Erick Schonfeld has riled the locals at Last.fm, in what has the makings of a bitter and adorable [...]

  • d

    bad bad techcrunch, smearing the good name of last.fm – they’ve been my hero since they were audioscrobbler and about the only service i’ve stuck to when others have come and gone.

    you should apologize about this in a better way than a oneliner at the top of the article.

    shame on you!

  • http://www.last.fm/ Update 4

    UPDATE 4:

    We’re sorry for writing unsubstantiated crap like this.

    (Well, we can wish, can’t we?)

  • http://www.last.fm/ Update 5

    Or UPDATE 5, even.

    Oops :o

  • http://www.techbanger.de/2009/02/24/uber-falschmeldungen-in-der-blogsphare/ Über Falschmeldungen in der Blogsphäre | TechBanger.de

    [...] gestern wird dieses Thema in zahlreichen Blogs diskutiert. Auslöser ist ein Beitrag von TechCrunch über Last.fm, in welchem dem Musikkatalog unterstellt wurde, Userdaten an die RIAA [...]

  • Tech Crunch Are Full Of Shit

    That’s all.

  • G.O.

    Why isn’t this listed as an “actively discussed post”?

  • http://www.techcrunch.com Robin Wauters

    Because we only show posts with a lot of comments in that box for a limited period of time, been that way for many months.

  • http://www.hypercrit.net/2009/02/24/rumor-has-it/ Hypercrit » Rumor has it

    [...] few days ago, TechCrunch ran a story about Last.fm, saying that the company had turned over user information to the RIAA. The story, as initially [...]

  • http://tanakamusic.com/2009/02/24/el-caso-lastfm-vs-techcrunch/ El caso Last.fm vs TechCrunch @ Tanaka Music

    [...] pasó? El mamut se hiz… digo… el pasado día 20 de febrero TechCrunch lanzó ciertas declaraciones sin citar fuentes en las que se afirmaba/rumoreaba que Last.fm estaba informando a la RIAA [...]

  • http://www,itchmerry.com/ MRKisThatKid

    I cannot believe tech crunch still haven’t apologised for this FUD. Not only do they have no journalistic standards but they have no balls to admit when they have fucked up.

  • http://maisouestcequonest.net/?p=9 Last.fm et les données privées … « Mais où est-ce qu’on est ?

    [...] de la musique en peer-to-peer ? L’info a été relayée par Ecrans.fr et provient de Techcrunch.com et fait polémique… évidemment. last.fm se défend, et Techrunch vacille … Cette news [...]

  • Jack

    I’m really surprised we haven’t yet heard an update on this story.

    TechCrunch, are you preparing your story that corroborates your earlier story with facts or are you preparing an apology to Last.fm? Neither?

  • http://www.bloggersbase.com/articles/entertainment/media/last-fm-call-out-techcrunch/ BloggersBase Media

    Last.fm Call Out Techcrunch…

    Smoke and fire are never too far from each other but the reasons the fire started burning can oft be misconstrued.Recently online tech website Techcrunch.com posted a story indicating that……

  • John

    That’s it. I’m unsubscribing permanently. S’laters.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andras_Ionut/606147836 Andras Ionut

    hm…

  • http://ekkmanz.wordpress.com/2009/02/25/techcrunch-is-the-next-evil/ Techcrunch is the next evil « Ekkmanz in real life!

    [...] ลงข่าว(ลือ) ว่า Last.fm (ซึ่งเป็นบริษัทลูกของ CBS [...]

  • http://beatcrave.com/2009-02-24/lastfm-denies-giving-users-data-to-riaa/ Last.fm Denies Giving Users’ Data to RIAA | BeatCrave – Music Blog, MP3 Downloads, Videos, News, Giveaways

    [...] users listening to the album on Last.fm. Then on February 20, online magazine TechCrunch posted an unsourced rumor that said Last.fm was revealing users’ listening data to the RIAA, an accusation that Last.fm’s [...]

  • Elizabeth

    That’s a REALLY good point, except that if they had “probable cause,” they could seize your computer, play all your files, and find the tracks that they were looking for, despite whatever you tagged/named the files.

  • http://www.soitscometothis.com/2009/02/24/what-i-learned-from-the-lastfm-rumor/ What I Learned From The Last.fm Rumor at So It’s Come To This:

    [...] the logs of who listened to U2’s unreleased CD which was leaked onto the internet. The rumor, reported by TechCrunch, was denied by both the RIAA and (several) people from [...]

  • Jeremy

    Is techcrunch trying to let this go away? I keep coming back to see when this loser is going to man up and apologize for the terrible fact checking he did. This site is a joke and this writer is an even bigger joke for not apologizing to last.fm.

  • http://blog.qingyu.org/lastfm-meets-techcrunch.html 个篱遐想录

    当Last.fm遇到Techcrunch:试问博客价值观底线…

    “Techcrunch are full of shit” 应该是我读过的这么多企业博客里最狠毒的一句话了(而且还直接作为标题),没错它就来自非常著名的社会化音乐服务提供商Last.fm的官方博客。而事情的起….

  • http://blog.wishcast.org/posts/users-leaving-lastfm-because-of-riaa/ Wishcast ’s Blog » Users Leaving Last.fm because of RIAA?

    [...] article by Techcrunch: Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? shows that Last.fm actually handed the data over to the RIAA according to a that they [...]

  • Anonymous

    > Does that mean authors of books should ‘get over themselves’ when something like the Kindle 2 ‘text to speech’ function usurps their potential audiobook rights?

    Are you trolling, or do you really think that content creators should have the right to restrict the use of the content with terms like “you may read this text with a text reader but not with a voice generator”? If so, I have a better idea for you: instead of selling their tracks, musicians should sell separate licenses for speakers and headphones.

  • http://blog.myoon.com/2009/02/25/hat-lastfm-seine-nutzer-verraten/ Hat last.fm seine Nutzer verraten? | myoon

    [...] Erik Schonfeld, ein Journalist mit 14 Jahren Erfahrung in der Branche, vertraut auf eine absolut lapprige Quelle und gefährdet mit dem Gerücht, last.fm hätte an die ameriaknische GEMA Nutzerdaten weitergegeben, den Ruf des gesamten [...]

  • http://blog.myoon.com Thomas Wagenknecht

    Instead of trying to explain the whole situation you should apologize once and for all.
    I’m a blogger myself and used TechCrunch often as a source, but I’m really, really disappointed by this false accusations.

    You’d better be asking how you can assure your users to be safe to read here, rather then blaming you “do have are a lot of unanswered questions about how exactly Last.fm shares user data with the record industry.”

    Richard Jones is damn right!

  • Anonymous bastard

    Last.fm claims to have not given away any user data, but can we trust what they say???

  • K.D. McLemore

    BREAKING… I just got an ‘insider’ tip from someone who informed me that Techcrunch posted this article shortly after a one hour meeting with a high level unnamed executive of Apple in a local Starbucks ;)

  • http://festivalisten.de/wordpress/2009/bandgossip/u2s-no-line-on-the-horizon-komplett-legal-bei-lastfm/ U2s “No Line On The Horizon” komplett legal bei last.fm | Festivalisten.de – Festivalnews und Soziales Netzwerk

    [...] Schlagzeilenträchtig war auch die versehentliche Downloadfreischaltung von (Ex)Mitarbeitern der Plattenfirma EMI Australien und der Vorwurf von Techcrunch last.fm würde die Daten von Usern an die Musikindustrie weiterleiten, die &#…. [...]

  • http://www.momentarylull.com/2009/02/60-minutes-of-stumbleupon-in-numbers/ 60 minutes of stumbleupon in numbers | Momentary Lull

    [...] but I must confess I am not genuinely interested in just any personal user station out there. – Techcrunch’s unchecked Last.fm / RIAA Rumor: Interesting. How very up-to-date. I have been a Techcrunch reader for some time but please spare [...]

  • http://friendfeed.com/elisbk Elis

    Response from Last.FM employee, Russ, here: http://www.last.fm/forum/21713/_/506518/1#f8660996

  • http://friendfeed.com/ontarioemperor Ontario Emperor
  • http://friendfeed.com/ontarioemperor Ontario Emperor
  • http://blogste.com Stephen Robinson

    This site is full of bullshit, LONG LIVE LAST.FM.

  • http://www.ronniebrown.co.uk/?p=1118 Ronnie Brown » Blog Archive » Last.fm vs. TechCrunch

    [...] TechCrunch recently accused Last.fm of handing over a lot of user data to the RIAA.  Obviously, Last.fm deny this.  Quite vehemently. … do us a favour – if you see people spreading the rumour, refer them to this blog post and mention you heard from a friend that “Techcrunch are full of shit.” Last.fm [...]

  • http://www.itnewsrss.com/?p=8761 当Last.fm遇到TechCrunch:试问博客价值观底线 | 紧跟IT潮流

    [...] "Techcrunch are full of shit" 应该是我读过的这么多企业博客里最狠毒的一句话了(而且还直接作为标题),没错它就来自非常著名的社会化音乐服务提供商Last.fm的官方博客。而事情的起因却是因为一个在IT领域同样非常出名的博客Techcrunch的一篇关于Last.fm的文章,文章中提到了一个关于Last.fm将用户数据递交给美国唱片工业协会(RIAA)以便其找出那些收听盗版音乐的用户。从此一个Blog与一个ISP开始了正面交锋。 [...]

  • http://www.minid.net Diego Martín Lafuente

    I’m just cancelling my last.fm account right now.

  • Chris

    Why? Have you bothered to read anything other than the headline?

  • http://www.rocksellout.com/2009/02/26/this-week-in-music/ Rock Sellout » Blog Archive » This Week In Music

    [...] this week as one of Time Magasine’s most over rated blogs of the year 2008, TechCrunch, reported that last.fm was handing over user data to the RIAA in the wake of last week’s U2 album [...]

  • Jack

    TechCrunch? Are you serious? It’s now almost a week after you published this lie, and you’ve been called out on it.

    Are you going to a) retract it or b) corroborate your story .

    Are you just hoping that this is going away?

  • http://nwhy.org/lastfm-vs-techcrunchs.html Last.fm跟TechCrunch的口水战 | Why? Nowhy! DFdou’s Blog

    [...] 在cnbeta看到的消息,事件源于Techcrunch几天前的一篇日志:《Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?》,里边说到Last.fm将用户数据递交给美国唱片工业协会(RIAA)以便其找出那些收听盗版音乐的用户。 这就搞的Last.fm不爽了,于是Last.fm发布了这么一篇日志:《Techcrunch are full of shit》。 话说,这也有够恶毒的,有这样骂人的嘛…… 为何Last.fm的会如此急于澄清这回事呢,原因是这样的。 Last.fm在用户使用官方播放器时,会记录用户的行为,比方听过的歌曲,专辑。 如果将这个数据交给RIAA,加上用户本身的信息和IP地址,那么…RIAA就会轻而易举的找到用户,要求交版权费… 试问,真若如此,哪还有那个用户敢用Last.fm的服务? 于是乎,两边的口水战就开始了。 至于事情到底是如何,本人不知,也不想知道,旁观吧奥~ [...]

  • http://www.thebestwordpressthemes.com/twitter-growth-highest Twitter growth highest | The Best Wordpress Themes

    [...] TechCrunch has written about is a “Complete bullshit”. Richard Jones,Last.fm’s co-founder commented on [...]

  • Anonymous

    TechCrunch are shit. Try reporting on useful stuff, not rumours, like the fucking tabloids. Get a clue Erick you’re clearly retarded. I’ve lost all respect for this site.

  • Anonymous

    LOL!

  • Anonymous

    That site is shit, why would you advertise it. Probabaly a site owned by you to. Get a new design and fix all the bugs. Moron.

  • well…

    well you guys at techcrunch are shameless..

  • http://theilife.com/2009/02/27/roundup-2-27-09/ The Roundup: Week of February 27th, 2009 | The iLife

    [...] From : TechCrunch and Last.fm – The Blog Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? and “Techcrunch are full of shit” Friday, February 20 2009 and Monday, February 23 [...]

  • http://www.mattishorna.se/ryktet-om-riia-och-lastfm-var-falskt Ryktet om RIIA och Last.fm var falskt | Mattis Hörna

    [...] “I’m rather pissed off this article was published, except to say that this is utter nonsense and totally untrue. As far as I can tell, the author of this article got a ‘tip’ from one person and decided to make a story out of it. TechCrunch is full of shit, film at 11.” – Richard Jones. [...]

  • http://magamaga.com/wordpress/?p=240 סערה »

    [...] האם Last.fm מוסרת נתוני משתמשים ל RIAA (ארגון האמנים המקליטים בארה:”ב) בכדי לאתר אנשים שמאזינים למוזיקה שטרם שוחררה (כמו החדש של U2 שדלף) ? טק קראנ’ מדווח. [...]

  • TC BSing again

    Not that you’re trying to hide the fact that Techcrunch screwed up then?

  • Hoover

    I don’t get it. You’re actually damaging a bunch of people who haven’t done anything wrong. What gives you the right to affect their livelihoods, and then beat around the bush with a half baked “clarification” when it turns out you’re wrong?

    Is this the fabled Web 2.0? A world in which anyone can say what the hell they like because, like dude, it’s free speech, right?

  • Jack

    I go out of the way to avoid clicking on links to Tech Crunch, since I can’t trust anything I read here.

    I’ve only bookmarked this page, and I’m coming back to see how long it takes TechCrunch to take some action.

    Over a week so far. Even the updates curiously stopped.

  • Jack

    I find it weird that the editors pop up to address other issues (like this one), but don’t answer the ones about what action exactly Tech Crunch is taking on this issue.

  • http://gedigi.net/merafalacia/2009/03/breve-nota-sobre-redes-sociais-proprietarias/ Mera Falácia » Blog Archive » Breve nota sobre Redes Sociais Proprietárias

    [...] artigo do TechCrunch denunciava uma cooperação entre uma das redes sociais mais bem sucedidas da web2.0, a Last.fm, e [...]

  • http://songstokeep.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/%c2%bflast-fm-le-pasa-datos-a-la-riia/ ¿Last Fm le pasa datos a la RIIA? « Songs To Keep…

    [...] con perplejidad en desconcierto. El rumor ha sido difundido por TechChurch en este post escalofriante en el que se sugiere que la red social adiquirida por la CBS podría haber dado a la [...]

  • sys admin

    When will you be sending a check to last.fm to compensate them for the business you destroyed with your false reporting?

  • http://maryrules.wordpress.com/2009/03/03/torrent-tuesday-2/ Torrent Tuesday « The Mary Report

    [...] You (2009) This record won’t be officially released for another two weeks. Please don’t sell me out to the RIAA or CRIA or whoever. So, for the uninitiated, Obits is fronted by Rick Froberg, who used to be in [...]

  • ernesto

    i really hope that what last.fm says is true, otherwise they lost my trust. users could get into real trouble, even if they have done nothing illegal (and downloading an album isn’t illegal, and the riaa had to prove they also seeded it). by the way, there are other methods of listening to unreleased tracks. me myself as i am connected with music journalism often get promo material, which i, of course, import into itunes to listen on my ipod. it would be a pity if i had to disable last.fm scrobbling just because in fear of the riaa.

  • winnarboy

    ernesto – Realize that this article has no factual backing whatsoever. This blog is held to grade-school level journalistic standards. It’s clear that this story is false (it has been denied by both the RIAA and last.fm). Erick lacks the integrity to retract his misleading story, and would rather just ‘let this go away’, which is clearly what has been done.

  • SG Scrobbler

    “Techcrunch are full of shit”

    (Long time scrobbler from Singapore cum TC reader who will never trust TechCrunch again)

  • http://www.nhanblogger.com/news/2009/03/03/lastfm-and-the-diabolical-power-of-data-mining/ News » Last.fm and the Diabolical Power of Data Mining

    [...] there was a minor scandal when TechCrunch accused Last.fm of turning over information — the identities of people listening to copies of a leaked U2 album — to the RIAA. [...]

  • Jack

    Has Tech Crunch still not either retracted or backed up this story?

    Jesus!

  • http://carlmagazine.com/2009/03/13/japandroids/ Japandroids « The Carl Online

    [...] whole album is streamable on last.fm. For those of you who are afraid of being spied on by the RIAA, the band has released the album’s first single, “Young Hearts Spark Fire,” for [...]

  • http://yourhollywoodnews.com/?p=3358 Did Last.fm Narc On Users For U2 Album????? « YourHollywoodNews.com

    [...] In a strange technological twist, it seems that music listening and song logging website last.fm may have turned over information logged by its scrobbling software to the RIAA. The situation in question concerns a leaked U2 album and users whose scrobbling software revealed them to have downloaded the leaked album, a clear violation of copyright laws. The fine folks at TechCrunch have a full rundown of the situation here. [...]

  • http://yourhollywoodnews.com/?p=2616 Did Last.fm Narc On Users For U2 Album????? « YourHollywoodNews.com

    [...] The fine folks at TechCrunch have a full rundown of the situation here. [...]

  • nick

    awesome!

  • jku

    “hardly a categorical denial”, “squishy disclaimer”…

    Weasel words from someone who made a mistake and is now trying to point the blame to someone else.

    How about an apology?

  • http://valderama.net walter

    i am disappointed by techCrunch.

  • http://www.crossrange.de/2009/03/25/lastfm-killt-mobile-drittanbieter-applikationen/ Crossrange.de

    Last.fm killt mobile Drittanbieter Applikationen…

    Von Last.FM gibt es momentan kaum gute Neuigkeiten. Zunächst ist heute bekannt geworden, dass wichtige Features des Dienstes für User außerhalb von Deutschland, Großbritannien und den USA ab demnächst kostenpflichtig werden. F….

  • http://portal.lacaterinca.com/lastfm-not-really-sharing-data-with-riaa/ Last.fm not really sharing data with RIAA | Techno Portal

    [...] to one of Last.fm’s founders, commenting on the TechCrunch post, “This is utter nonsense and totally untrue. As far as I can tell, the [...]

  • http://blogs.ci.fsu.edu/artech/2009/03/30/lastfm-and-the-diabolical-power-of-data-mining/ fsu.edu | Artech Blog

    [...] Analysis by Peter EckersleyRecently, there was a minor scandal when TechCrunch accused Last.fm of turning over information — the identities of people listening to copies of a leaked U2 album — to the RIAA. Last.fm [...]

  • http://www.alojate.com/blog/google-no-habla-sobre-los-rumores-de-compra-de-twitter/ Google no habla sobre los rumores de compra de Twitter | alojate.com

    [...] ser chequeados. El último caso fue la denuncia de que Last.Fm, el servicio de radio online, vendía sus bases a las discográficas .La firma lo negó enfáticamente diciendo que el blog de tecnología ” es una porquería [...]

  • http://www.techsupersite.net/?p=931 Rumor: Last.fm Releases the Contents of Users Music Libraries to the RIAA | Tech Supersite Network

    [...] week, and the resulting downloads have sent the RIAA into a frenzied fit. New rumors reported by TechCrunch have revealed that the recording industry might be looking to track down people who downloaded the [...]

  • lewl

    I emailed the site, and Arrington claimed the story was true and that updates were coming “soon”. It’s been over a month since, I think. When I prodded for more info, he got hissy and started name calling.

    I think it’s safe to assume they’re trying to let this thing die down by not mentioning anything about it.

  • http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/22/deny-this-lastfm/ Deny This, Last.fm

    [...] couple of months ago Erick Schonfeld wrote a post titled “Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?” based on a source that has proved to be very reliable in the past. All hell broke loose [...]

  • http://techdozer.com/deny-this-lastfm/ TechDozer » Deny This, Last.fm

    [...] couple of months ago Erick Schonfeld wrote a post titled “Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?” based on a source that has proved to be very reliable in the past. All hell broke loose [...]

  • http://tradejim.com/deny-this-lastfm/ Trade Jim News » Deny This, Last.fm

    [...] couple of months ago Erick Schonfeld wrote a post titled “Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?” based on a source that has proved to be very reliable in the past. All hell broke loose [...]

  • http://reviewsmanual.com/deny-this-lastfm-2.html Deny This, Last.fm | Reviews Manual

    [...] cofounder Richard designer said “I’m kinda pissed soured this article was published, eliminate to feature that this is absolute [...]

  • http://tech-whiz.info/deny-this-lastfm/ Tech Whiz Underground » Deny This, Last.fm

    [...] This, Last.fm A couple of months ago Erick Schonfeld wrote a post titled “Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?” based on a source that has proved to be very reliable in the past. All hell broke loose [...]

  • http://www.upoff.com/2009/05/22/deny-this-lastfm/ Deny This, Last.fm | UpOff.com

    [...] cofounder Richard Jones said “I’m rather pissed off this article was published, except to say that this is utter nonsense [...]

  • http://www.indometric.com/deny-this-lastfm/ Deny This, Last.fm – Indometric

    [...] couple of months ago Erick Schonfeld wrote a post titled “Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?” based on a source that has proved to be very reliable in the past. All hell broke loose [...]

  • http://thegoodnetguide.com/05/deny-this-lastfm/ Deny This, Last.fm | The Good NET Guide

    [...] couple of months ago Erick Schonfeld wrote a post titled “Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?” based on a source that has proved to be very reliable in the past. All hell broke loose [...]

  • anonymous

    Now don’t you feel like a fool, what with it all being true.

    Toe the line bud, you’ll be rewarded with that pie in the sky for sure.

  • http://tumbleworks.net/tumbletech/?p=223 TumbleTech » Deny This, Last.fm

    [...] couple of months ago Erick Schonfeld wrote a post titled “Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?” based on a source that has proved to be very reliable in the past. All hell broke loose [...]

  • anonymous
  • http://thetechtown.com/deny-this-lastfm-2/ The Tech Town » Deny This, Last.fm

    [...] comments Leave a comment A couple of months ago Erick Schonfeld wrote a post titled “Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?” based on a source that has proved to be very reliable in the past. All hell broke loose [...]

  • http://recruitmentmatters.nl/2009/05/23/de-kracht-van-weblogs-en-het-gevaar-van-sociale-netwerken/ De kracht van weblogs en het gevaar van sociale netwerken | Online privacy | Recruitment Matters – Alles over online recruitment

    [...] maanden geleden ontstond er een vette rel naar aanleiding van een posting op TechCrunch waar Last.fm werd beschuldigd gebruikersdata aan de RIAA (Recording Industry Association of [...]

  • http://tech-framers.com/deny-this-lastfm Deny This, Last.fm | Tech-Framers

    [...] couple of months ago Erick Schonfeld wrote a post titled “Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?” based on a source that has proved to be very reliable in the past. All hell broke loose [...]

  • http://www.thescriptszone.com/deny-this-lastfm/ Deny This, Last.fm | The Scripts Zone

    [...] couple of months ago Erick Schonfeld wrote a post titled “Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?” based on a source that has proved to be very reliable in the past. All hell broke loose [...]

  • http://newsknot.com/2009/05/deny-this-lastfm/ Deny This, Last.fm

    [...] cofounder Richard Jones said “I’m rather pissed off this article was published, except to say that this is utter nonsense [...]

  • http://depkac.com/teknoloji-haberleri/25761-lastfm-kullanicilarin-datasini-riaaa-mi-veriyor/#post480152 Anonymous

    [...] [...]

  • http://geetarchurchy.wordpress.com/2009/05/23/weekly-round-up-23-05-09/ Weekly Round Up 23.05.09 « The Seldom Seen Kid

    [...] CBS had sold user’s data to the RIAA. There is a history to this, and i’ll let you read it here. The sharing of user data is a huge issue and of course has many legal implications, but are [...]

  • http://search-that.net/?p=53 Search-that » Deny This, Last.fm

    [...] couple of months ago Erick Schonfeld wrote a post titled “Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?” based on a source that has proved to be very reliable in the past. All hell broke loose [...]

  • http://www.ghacks.net/2009/05/23/techcrunch-lastfm-data-was-leaked-after-all-to-the-riaa/ TechCrunch: Last.fm Data Was Leaked After All To The RIAA

    [...] ran a story back in February were they claimed that Last.fm data was handed over to the RIAA (Recording Industry [...]

  • http://netzwertig.com/2009/05/23/datenskandal-oder-doch-nicht-neue-anschuldigungen-gegen-lastfm/ Datenskandal oder doch nicht: Neue Anschuldigungen gegen Last.fm » netzwertig.com

    [...] Großbritannien und Deutschland die kostenlose Kernfunktion der Radiostreams zu entfernen, und dann tauchten auch noch Vorwürfe auf, Last.fm hätte sensible Nutzerdaten an die Musikindustrie [...]

  • Jed Smith

    So uh, what was that you said again?

  • http://www.thefaredge.com/?p=4193 The Far Edge » Blog Archive » Deny This, Last.fm

    [...] couple of months ago Erick Schonfeld wrote a post titled “Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?” based on a source that has proved to be very reliable in the past. All hell broke loose shortly [...]

  • http://www.csommer.de/lastfm-riaa-cbs/ Last.fm übergibt Daten an die RIAA? – » Blog Archiv

    [...] Februar 2009 macht die Story, dass Last.fm Userdaten an die RIAA übergeben hat, zum erstenmal die Runde. Last.fm bestritt [...]

  • http://www.peuster.org/2009/05/bye-bye-lastfm.html peuster.org – Bye, bye Last.fm

    [...] Februar macht das Gerücht die Runde das Last.fm Benutzerdaten an die RIAA weitergegeben hat. Heute muss ich über diesen [...]

  • http://www.main-blog.de/2009/05/24/neuer-datenskandal-jetzt-auch-im-web/ MAIN-Blog.de » Blog Archive » neuer Datenskandal – jetzt auch im Web

    [...] Kernfunktion der Radiostreams entfernen. Dann tauchten auch noch News auf, dass Last.fm sensible Nutzerdaten an die Musikindustrie ausgehändigt habe. Keine sehr gute Basis für das Vertrauen der Kunden / [...]

  • http://techcrunch.fr@gmail.com samir

    Note good for the reading of

  • http://andyontheroad.wordpress.com/2009/05/24/quick-update-say-last-fm-did-in-fact-give-up-users-to-the-riaa-but-they-didnt-want-to/ Quick update: /. says Last.fm did in fact give up users to the RIAA (but they didn’t want to) « Andy on the Road

    [...] but /. contributor “suraj.sun” says TechCrunch, the party responsible for breaking the Last.fm-gives-up-users-to-the-RIAA story in February, now has released another story claiming additional sources have confirmed that Last.fm [...]

  • http://blog.myoon.com/2009/05/25/lastfm-erneut-in-der-kritik/ Last.fm erneut in der Kritik | myoon

    [...] der Technologie Blog TechCrunch für ordentlichen Wirbel, als Erick Schonfeld dem Musikdienst unterstellte, Nutzerdaten an den amerikanischen Verband der Musikindustrie (RIAA) zu leiten. Last.fm dementierte [...]

  • http://vbeta.pl/2009/05/25/gdzie-lastfm-przekazuje-informacje-o-nas/ Gdzie Last.fm przekazuje informacje o nas?! – vBeta.pl – blog o internecie, baza wiedzy o nowych programach, Web 2.0

    [...] czasu coś złego dzieje się z tym serwisem. Najpierw spekulacje TechCrunch na temat tego, że Last.fm przekazuje informacje RIAA, później wprowadzenie opłat za korzystanie z funkcji radia. Co więcej, pojawiają się kolejne [...]

  • http://blog.hep-cat.de/?p=3764 Last.fm Userdaten bei der RIAA? « hep-cat.de

    [...] nun also doch? Schon im Februar dieses Jahres tauchten Gerüchte auf, dass last.fm Nutzerdaten an die RIAA gegeben haben soll, was jedoch vehement bestritten wurde. Nun tauchen neue Informationen auf, nach welchen [...]

  • http://remixtures.com/2009/05/techcrunch-acusa-cbs-de-ter-entrege-dados-dos-utilizadores-da-lastfm-a-riaa/ TechCrunch acusa CBS de ter entrege dados dos utilizadores da Last.fm à RIAA | Remixtures

    [...] 20 de Fevereiro, o TechCrunch publicou um artigo onde acusava a Last.fm de ter enviado à Associação da Indústria Discográfica Norte-americana [...]

  • http://www.rollogrady.com/techcrunch-vs-lastfm-part-ii-are-users-getting-cheated/ TechCrunch vs. Last.fm, Part II: Are Users Getting Cheated? – Los Angeles Music Blog

    [...] Is Last.fm supplying confidential user information to the RIAA? Several months ago, TechCrunch accused CBS-owned Last.fm of doing just that, the beginning of a controversial firestorm. Last.fm executives vehemently [...]

  • Taylor

    People download music they may potentially enjoy. If it turns out to be a bust, they delete it – at least that is the assumption. Personally, I think Apple is partially to blame. As they continue producing larger capacity iPods – 30gb, 60gb, 80gb, 120gb, 160gb – people don’t delete these junk albums. People feel wasteful if they buy a 120gb iPod and only put 20gb of data on it.

    Anyway, if one person illegally downloads music, and they enjoy what they downloaded, they will talk about it with those they come in contact with. While the original person may not buy the album, or even the 6th person he/she talks to, someone is going to buy it. Someone who may have never heard of a certain artist at all. The original person also increased ticket sales at the artist’s show, as well as merchandise sales.

    The only group piracy “hurts” is the RIAA. Until they stop stealing from artists, I don’t think the public is going to care.

  • http://www.irisassociates.com/2009/05/iris-is-scrobbling/ Iris is scrobbling… : Iris Associates Ltd.

    [...] with the oft vilified Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). Originating from a post by Erick Schonfeld of TechCrunch detailing the canard. Last.fm quickly and categorically denied the accusations and posted their [...]

  • http://www.supafeed.com/2009-05-26-lastfm-rejects-claim-of-illegal-behaviour.html Last.fm rejects claim of illegal behaviour | SupaFeed

    [...] latest accusations, published late on Friday, are a tweaked version of claims made in February that Last.fm user data has been passed on to the Recording Industry Association of [...]

  • http://scteam.wordpress.com/2009/05/26/des-pirates-aux-mains-de-la-riaa-grace-a-last-fm/ Des “Pirates” aux mains de la RIAA graçe à Last.fm ? «

    [...] ne va plus entre Last.fm et le blog américain Techcrunch. Fin février, ce dernier avait publié un article qui accusait Last.fm d’avoir transmis à la RIAA des données statistiques sur les habitudes [...]

  • http://www.pantipguide.com/lastfm-riaa-%e0%b8%9b%e0%b8%8f%e0%b8%b4%e0%b9%80%e0%b8%aa%e0%b8%98-%e0%b9%84%e0%b8%a1%e0%b9%88%e0%b9%84%e0%b8%94%e0%b9%89%e0%b9%81%e0%b8%ad%e0%b8%9a%e0%b8%94%e0%b8%b9%e0%b8% Last.fm-RIAA ปฏิเสธ ไม่ได้แอบดูข้อมูลเพลง U2 | Pantip Guide

    [...] ลงข่าว(ลือ) ว่า Last.fm (ซึ่งเป็นบริษัทลูกของ CBS [...]

  • http://surber.us/2009/05/27/so-long-lastfm/ SURBER • US · So long, last.fm!

    [...] February, TechCrunch ran an article claiming that last.fm handed over scrobbled data to the Recording Industry Association of America. [...]

  • http://fr.mkt-planet.com/web-news/lastfm-et-cbs-ont-ils-communique-des-donnees-d%e2%80%99utilisateurs-a-la-riaa/ Last.fm et CBS ont-ils communiqué des données d’utilisateurs à la RIAA? | MKT planet – News Web Marketing – Nouvelles Technologies

    [...] y a deux mois de cela, Erick Shonfeld publiait un post: Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?”; cet article, basé sur les confidences d’une source très fiable, expliquait comment [...]

  • http://www.bestnotizie.com/16671/lite-tra-techcrunch-e-lastfm-via-twitter-per-i-presunti-dati-ceduti-alla-riaa/ » Lite tra TechCrunch e Last.fm via Twitter per i presunti dati ceduti alla RIAA

    [...] Qualche tempo fa il sito web TechCrunch pubblicò la notizia secondo la quale Last.fm avrebbe ceduto i dati dei propri alla RIAA, associazione americana dell’industria discografica. La risposta da parte del social music network fu abbastanza perentoria, riportando un “TechCrunch è pieno di m***a” agli onori della cronaca. [...]

  • http://blastmagazine.com/the-magazine/technology/2009/05/did-lastfm-just-throw-you-under-the-bus/ Blast – Did Last.fm just throw you under the bus? – Boston’s Online Magazine

    [...] allegations have surfaced that Last.fm released information identifying users listening to a leaked U2 album. Last.fm denied [...]

  • http://www.cicoira.it/index.php/2009/05/28/lite-tra-techcrunch-e-lastfm-via-twitter-per-i-presunti-dati-ceduti-alla-riaa/ Lite tra TechCrunch e Last.fm via Twitter per i presunti dati ceduti alla RIAA | Cicoira.it

    [...] Qualche tempo fa il sito web TechCrunch pubblicò la notizia secondo la quale Last.fm avrebbe ceduto i dati dei propri alla RIAA, associazione americana dell’industria discografica. La risposta da parte del social music network fu abbastanza perentoria, riportando un “TechCrunch è pieno di m***a” agli onori della cronaca. [...]

  • http://www.adsensea.com/archives/2009/05/29/lastfm-obvinili-v-stukachestve/ Last.fm обвинили в стукачестве | AdSense

    [...] Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? — TechCrunch (eng.) [...]

  • http://nbcmi2009.wordpress.com/2009/05/29/cbs-refutes-last-fm-riaa-data-sharing-accusations/ CBS refutes Last.fm / RIAA data-sharing accusations « New Business Concepts Music Industry 2009

    [...] week has seen a revival in the spat between TechCrunch and Last.fm, over the former’s allegations that the latter shared user data with the RIAA following the leak of U2’s recent album. Now [...]

  • http://www.sexysocialmedia.com/at-last-a-leak/ At Last, a Leak

    [...] preference information has been incendiary, to say the least. The commentary on his post, “Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data to the RIAA?” (Recording Industry Association of America) will have anyone who reads it waiting for Big [...]

  • http://vandrerol.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/shocking-developments/ Shocking developments « wandering & wondering

    [...] article suggesting that Last.fm had handed over user listening data to the RIAA, aptly titled, “Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data to the RIAA?”. In it, Erick Schonfeld said that London-based Last.fm had sent a (very big) list of [...]

  • http://thenextweb.com/2009/06/10/lastfm-founders-resign/ Last.fm founders resign – The Next Web

    [...] at a strained relationship between Last.fm and CBS came earlier this year when Techcrunch ran a story accusing Last.fm of passing data about users who had been listening to the as-yet unreleased U2 [...]

  • http://techiteasy.org/2009/06/10/medias-basic-duty-to-tell-the-truth-p-s-blogs-are-not-media/ Media’s Basic Duty to tell the Truth (P.S. Blogs are not Media) « Tech IT Easy

    [...] scandal, truth — Vincent van Wylick @ 20:27 This in reference to the accusations (1, 2) that Techcrunch made towards Last.fm, which have been criticised by many, not least by Last.fm [...]

  • http://www.lisys.gr/?p=263 Last.fm discriminates content? | LISyS

    [...] of Last.fm resigned just yesterday and there are also (unverified) rumors lately that Last.fm sold user listening data. Looks like the service is changing…I will definitely stop using it. What about you? Share [...]

  • pigger

    the feedback of last.FM is even more disappointing than this news

  • http://www.betterwatching.com/intransit/2009/06/intransit-audio-is-now-on-lastfm/ InTransit Audio is now on Last.fm | InTransit Audio

    [...] Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? Share and Enjoy: [...]

  • woot

    whoa, stop there. taking tools or whatever isn’t the same. Tools are physical objects, music is art, an expresion of society by one individual. Read the constitution. There are no promises of money, just control, and even that for only 14 years with one 14 year extension (thanks for nothing disney for screwing us on that one as welll.) The founding fathers understood that every bit of creativity is based on another persons creativity. A musician hears a beat or rhythm and say “hey” and runs off to make a tune. someone else hears that tune (the beat or whatever) and says “wow” and runs off to make his tune. In the end all creativity belongs to society (hence the term “public commons”) and therefore belongs to all of us. I do not have a problem with musicians making a living, but that’s not going to happen till they break off from the music industry’s tit.

  • Anonymous_musician

    By the way, to all of you who talk about the RIAA, record labels, the music industry lawyers… helping musicians, and to anybody who thinks that people who download music without paying are stealing from the artists, here’s some news: I and *every* other musician I know happily listen to bootleg CDs, and happily download such free copies of tracks. Why??? Because the real thieves are the very people you’ve been duped into believing. Look into it. You’ll soon learn that musicians almost never actually get any of that money you seem to think they are getting—that is, in the traditional business model. The possibility is there for this to be different, for musicians to start actually getting some money. But arguably, in order for that to happen we’ll have to wrestle the control from the hands of the greedy. Undermining the current business model might just be a way to facilitate that. Go download till the cows come home. Let’s get those bastards off our backs.

  • http://www.moreblogsabout.blogspot.com Stefan

    “The dynamics of a free market economy will determine whether the art is good, the prices are fair, or whether it’s an artist to be recognized or ignored. But the bottom line is that the artist’s rights related to property and legal protection are a pillar of the 14th amendment to the US constitution.”

    I cannot help read that and be appalled. What kind of value do you place on art that its price and success in a free market determines its worth? Iggy and the Stooges are barely millionaires, yet in “artistic terms” they are one of the biggest influences of all of the heavy/punk rock that followed in the late seventies. The free market didn’t exactly “take care of them,” as much as it took care of the countless imitation punk bands over the late eighties and nineties. The free market system does not adequately describe nor pertain the sale and distribution of art, and this is the problem when you have the free market permeating the very legislation that makes art distribution stick to the confines of intellectual property law.

    Fact, you cannot stop internet downloading. 99.99999% of people who download music will never, ever, be caught. It’s impossible, it’s too expensive. That’s why there is no parallel to trying to fly for free, and there also glaring fact that air transportation isn’t an artistic endeavor that is hard to qualify. So praying at the altar of capitalism and the laws that have been written to keep corporations like EMI and Universal afloat doesn’t relate to the fact that internet downloading needs to be addressed rationally and that the laws need to be changed sooner rather than later, hopefully with the help of the record companies if they want to stay in the game.

    Also, music downloading has not hurt independent or smaller musicians. Whoever said that downloading is making it difficult for smaller artists is full of crock. Who is listening to your music in the first place? Are you 8,000 fans downloading all your stuff instead of buying it from you? Chances are, you’d have to sign with a label anyways, and if you’re in the music business to make money, well hate to break it to you, but it’s a tough game and downloading is not the only cause of your money woes. You probably wouldn’t have made money before, or if a world with downloading didn’t exist.

    Anyways, to return back to my original point, the problem is that the author of the quote comes off like a guy who’s going to report you to jaywalking. Jaywalking and downloading are not comparable, but when you single handedly stick up for laws that are draconian and fail to reflect degrees of relativity within society, you come off looking like some sort of zero-sum realist obsessed with absolutes and afraid that any fissure in law will begin to break the laws of society. And you’d be just the kind of petty person to see someone get a ticket for jaywalking and smirk to yourself at the law being exercised in all of its “judicial” glory.

  • http://pimp.internetpronews.com/2009/02/23/pirate-bay-enters-its-fifth-day-in-court/ Internet Pro News » Blog Archive » Pirate Bay Enters It’s Fifth Day In Court

    [...] recent upset over the pre release of the U2 album, including wild releasing of rumors via Techcrunch about Last.FM giving information to the RIAA about who could be listening to the new album. This has [...]

  • http://psp.wijou.com DJKMan

    Actually there IS a loss of a physical object. It’s called money. ;)

  • http://tysonator.mixtrac.com/index.php/2009/07/12/be-wary-of-last-fm/ Be Wary of last.fm || mixtrac

    [...] may get the RIAA knocking at your door! mixtrac would never violate peoples privacy in such a scrupulous way. [...]

  • http://tysonator.mixtrac.com/index.php/2009/02/23/be-wary-of-last-fm/ Be Wary of last.fm || mixtrac

    [...] Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA? Posted in commentary, Mon, 23/02/09   [...]

  • http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/15/the-truth-at-lastfm/ The Truth at Last(.fm)

    [...] contingent of bloggers. But really I’ve been doing some deep investigative work on this whole Last.fm [...]

  • http://spinvalleypost.com/2009/07/15/the-truth-at-lastfm/ The Truth at Last(.fm) | Spin Valley Post

    [...] contingent of bloggers. But really I’ve been doing some deep investigative work on this whole Last.fm [...]

  • http://www.stoth.com/2009/07/15/the-truth-at-lastfm/ The Truth at Last(.fm) | Stoth

    [...] contingent of bloggers. But really I’ve been doing some deep investigative work on this whole Last.fm scandal. I showed up at their offices and guess what I found? A pile of servers sitting in a [...]

  • http://articlesave.com/2009/07/16/3401/the-truth-at-lastfm/ ArticleSave :: Uncategorized :: The Truth at Last(.fm)

    [...] contingent of bloggers. But really I’ve been doing some deep investigative work on this whole Last.fm [...]

  • http://www.macworld.it/2009/02/25/venendo-al-punto/ Venendo al punto « Macworld Online

    [...] TechCrunch titola Last.fm ha messo in mano alla Riaa i dati degli ascoltatori? [...]

  • http://www.musicplayer.me/2009/03/06/does-last-fm-play-the-sound-of-silence/ Does last.fm play the Sound of Silence? : Music Player

    [...] get to the fun part, at last. On Friday the 20th of February, TechCrunch released a salvo titled: Did last.fm just hand over user listening data to the riaa? Why would they do that, you ask? It seems there was a leak of an unreleased U2 album called No Line [...]

  • ak77

    AllMediaConsultant,

    “I don’t know about you, but I’ve never encountered the supply of a product that was limitless. Production and inventory are usually tied to demand.”

    How is the supply of a digital file not limitless?

    “I also don’t see how expecting to be paid, ‘FOREVER’ or otherwise for a legally-transacted download is ‘corrupt’ or not right.”

    Actually no, to be paid forever you would have to be doing something illegal or corrupt. Copyrights and patents have expiry dates, so that at some point society can benefit from, and build on, that work (which came from society in the first place; John Donne etc).

    “You and a few other people seem to be missing the point that theft is theft and is criminal.”

    No, again. Infringement is not theft and not criminal: infringement is part of civil law. It is *specifically* not criminal.
    ________________________________

    Noah,

    The problem with thinking in terms of “will anyone make it as big as U2 without the labels” is that the percentage of musicians who achieve that status with labels is essentially zero, when you look at all the working musicians in the world.

    Superstardom is an unobtainable goal, except for a handful amongst millions. You don’t need to stretch your goalpost to The Biggest Band On The Planet to live a nice life. There is a lot more room for people to succeed if they are not aiming at impossibility.

    I’m only making that small point. I’m not commenting on the rest of your argument, or about IP or a musician’s expectation of reward for their work :)

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