In April, Apple Ditched Google And Skyhook In Favor Of Its Own Location Databases
MG Siegler
Jul 29, 2010

As you’re undoubtedly aware, location is one of the hottest fields out there right now. Startups, services, devices, and advertisers are all hovering around it. As you’re also likely well aware, Apple likes to be in control of their own devices. So it should come as no surprise to hear that Apple is moving to be in complete control of their own location database.

Back in June, Apple changed its privacy policy to reflect some of the newer things they were doing with regard to location. This worried some people — including two U.S. Congressmen who sent a letter to Apple asking about the change. A couple weeks ago, Apple responded to that inquiry with a letter from Apple’s general counsel, Bruce Sewell. The overall main points of that letter have already been covered quite a bit (basically, none of the data Apple collects is linked to a specific user or device and no data is shared without consent). But buried on page 5 of the 13-page letter is a bit of information that’s rather interesting.

Here’s the passage (highlights are mine):

To provide the high quality products and services that its customers demand, Apple must have access to comprehensive location-based information. For devices running iPhone OS versions 1.1.3 to 3.1, Apple relied on (and still relies on) databases maintained by Google and Skyhook Wireless (“Skyhook”) to provide location-based services. Beginning with the iPhone OS version 3.2 released in April 2010, Apple relies on its own databases to provide location-based services and for diagnostic purposes. These databases must be updated continuously to account for, among other things, the ever-changing physical landscape, more innovative uses of mobile technology, and the increasing number of Apple’s customers. Apple has always taken great care to protect the privacy of its customers.

In other words, since iPhone OS 3.2 (since renamed “iOS”) which shipped on the iPad, and continuing with the new iOS 4, Apple is now in complete control of the location services on the iPhone (and iPad/iPod touch). Previously, Apple relied on the location information from Skyhook and Google. But now they have built their own databases to be able to drop those guys going forward (though, as they note, the older iOSes still use that outside data).

As I said, this continues Apple’s long tradition of wanting to have complete control over their products by developing everything they need in-house. They didn’t have the capabilities to do that with location services when the iPhone launched. Now, apparently, they do.

When reached for comment, Skyhook wouldn’t specifically talk about their relationship with Apple, but they did say that “everyone who has a platform wants to own as much of the location stack as possible. Location data is going the be huge and owning it is going to be the next big war in mobile.

It has to be particularly nice for Apple to be able to ditch Google in this regard. While Google helped Apple build the Maps application on the iPhone, the relationship between the two has obviously changed over the years. With Apple now making its move into mobile advertising with iAds, clearly they didn’t want to be sending or receiving all the location information for all of their millions of devices from what is now a chief rival. And Google is making fast moves to beef up its mobile location-based ads, as well.

It will also be interesting to see what, if anything, this means for the Maps application on the iPhone and iPad. Earlier this month, Apple bought Poly9, makers of a 3D mapping software. And last year, they bought Placebase, another map-maker. Both of those purchases were likely for their talent, rather than the products — it would seem as if Apple is moving in the direction of having its own mapping products. If they do that, clearly they’re going to want their own location databases as well. And now they have just that.

One thing a lot of services such as Google have been working on recently is building up their place databases. It’s not clear if Apple will be building their own one of those as well — but I wouldn’t bet against it.

This also may signal Apple eventually baking in location to some of their other apps — like Contacts. While I suspect they wouldn’t do this in a way that would directly compete with all the third-party location startups out there, it could be something along the lines of being able to tell where family members are at all times (provided they opt-in, of course).

And, of course, Apple likes to tout their “Find My iPhone” feature, which is all about location. It’s perhaps the perfect example of how Apple is able to tell where any iPhone (or iPad) is at anytime, anywhere. It makes sense to try to fully control that information, and all the data surrounding it.

Advertisement
  • Related Topics
Advertisement
  • http://rkrishnakumar.tumblr.com Rahul Krishnakumar

    Will DLinked use Google’s location database? I imagine a next generation social network would be all over location right?

  • Chris

    Please no! No more apple shit for me today, MG!
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-Hate-MG-Siegler/116057485110172

  • http://Eluxury4viet.com Applefantastic4

    Cant wait till they replace google. Go Applr

  • nick

    Fucking dlinked.com spam, why is this in ever TC post now?

  • Mike

    This explains why there is no Google Maps Navigation for iPhone and iPad — a huge loss for those of us who opted for Apple over Android.

  • Mike

    Stop already.

  • Joe Job

    What does DLinked need a location database? Dlinked is a scam personal information harvesting website.

  • Shawn

    Dude.. the fact that you created a page (and are clearly managing it) based on a dislike for MG is pretty much the creepiest thing I have so far in these usually entertaining comment boards.

    You need to shut yourself down, go back to the drawing board and really figure out where you want your life to go. Because at this rate you are headed to some dark places.

    Douche.

  • Ben

    I agree, more about Android app sending user personal information to China.

  • Ben

    Google Map’s developer agreement explicitly prohibits developers from using Google map to develop turn by turn Navigation systems.

    That is a Google exclusive feature.

  • George

    Win.

  • asdfa

    Get outta here

  • George

    You really think Apple would put a price tag on their own Maps service? Especially after it was previously free? Wrong.

  • asdfa

    Please stfu and gtfo. You’re an idiot. I don’t want my personal information sent to China.

  • asdfa

    Huge loss? I didn’t even notice…dumbass.

  • nick

    He’s just part of a coordinated spamming… I wish TC would just delete their post entirely.

  • jack

    If you want to see an idiot just look in the mirror. You pay google in ad views and giving up every piece of information about you. I’d rather pay money than give up all privacy. You might feel the opposite. But if you don’t realize what your’e actually paying google, then you are dumber than a bag of bricks.

  • Melvin
  • MIKE

    I’d just like to throw it out there that:

    “Apple is able to tell where any iPhone (or iPad) is at anytime, anywhere. It makes sense to try to fully control that information, and all the data surrounding it.”

    is not entirely accurate. I’ve lost my iPhone COUNTLESS times, and am a subscriber of MobileME, there was NEVER ONE occurrence where FindMyIphone was able to locate my device, when I inquired to Apple to find out if they could locate it themselves, they said there was no way for them to do so…

  • jack

    Google turn by turn only works with a data connection. Several apps in the app store worth with or without. Yep, they cost money, but the cost has come down considerably.

    Eventually apple will come out with their own turn by turn gps. You can spend a little money, wait, or go to android. Any of the three is better than hearing you whine.

  • nick

    That’s because the employee at the movie theater who found it took out the sim card before you checked–duh.

  • Mitchell

    I never actually said they would put a price on it, but apples pricing is a gripe I have wiith them… My point was against the whole down with google in replace for apple… Which is complete incoherent crap!

  • nick

    Shut up and don’t read it then. You put way more energy into complaining than it would have taken for you to just keep scrolling past the article or go to another website. Douche troll.

  • Former Dell fan

    You ass. How do you think it is free? Because google uses more personally identifiable information about you than any other company in the world to make money off of you.

  • ken

    Another brainwashed.. fool. German Ogre.

  • Former Dell fan

    That’s strange. Works pretty well for me. You know that you need signal right? Which means working SIM, and signal and registration to MobileMe

  • Mitchell

    Are you joking, whats wrong with you fanboys, its like youre missing brain cells… Everything google produces is free to the user thanks to advertising revenue they make. Apple are all about glossy stuff that dont work as well as their competitors and placing a ridiculous price tag on it… You are an idiot if you want Apple to take google down, a company that provides every service to you for free… I feel for you’re idiotic mind ;D

  • Matt

    This explains why my iPad continues to believe it is in our old house 2000 miles away despite submitting an update weeks ago on the skyhook website.

    Apple doesn’t seem to provide a way to add a wi-fi location. Considering my iPhone has gps and is connected to the router everyday, you would think they could auto-update. Perhaps they should stick to making hardware and leave the cloud services to the professionals.

  • Rabidcb

    Everything Google produces should be free. With very few exceptions, most of it is amateurish at best.

  • Rabidcb

    So much for being open I guess.

  • ken

    Then that makes the whole ‘search and locate’ pointless, doesn’t it?

    I mean, if you’ll be the robber, then you can just take the Sim away. Or simply switch-off the phone.

    Alas! the owner can say ‘goodbye jose’ to his iPhone already.

  • Rabidcb

    Wow, this guy really has a hard on for MG. I would venture to say a man who spends his days tracking another man is obsessed.

    This fits the definition of man crush.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=man+crush

  • pret

    The fact that you’re commenting on him, makes you look like a greater douche.

    At least, that guy made an entertainment for some of the readers here in TC.

    and if you’re irritated or somewhat annoyed. Then you can just use this ballpen, and f*ck yourself out.

    Thank you.

  • michihi

    of you think that google is open, try to change a default search engine on your android phone
    I tried to do it for experiment
    there is no way to replace google by another search engine

  • Kent99

    You need to grow up.

  • Kent99

    If Apple’s pricing is a problem for you, then you need to either get a job or get a better job.

  • Facebook User

    Don’t you realize that someone could report this page and it would be shut down?

    It’s in violation of the Facebook Terms of Service under “Safety”:

    3.7: You will not post content that is hateful, threatening…

    I think that applies to this group, considering “Hate” is in the name. Anyone could shut this page down by reporting it.

  • Rabidcb

    No, of course I don’t think Google is OPEN. Open is just a term Google uses to trick their users and is now used by the herd of Android users to convince users of other phones that their phones have an ability that no other phone has. As if the idea of being Open actually affected their use or something.

  • Rabidcb

    And the fact that you are commenting on him for commenting makes you an even greater douche. You are like super douche.

  • Moe Glitz

    There is the ‘Fake Steve Jobs’ and with MG we now have the ‘Real Steve Jobs’.

  • SEOwieso

    ok an actual question to you guys:

    what the heck is this geo data they are all talking about? What exactly does it mean? What is it? where people were/are? locations of places? maps? can some bright mind here on techcrunch enlighten me?

  • Mark A

    Actually it’s kind of funny.

    You should chill out more. Perhaps have a beer with some friends.

  • http://skyrog.info skyrog

    And now we’ve come full circle.

    Rabidcb is diamonds.

  • Tom

    +1

    And i do hate MG a lot.

  • Demensi

    Come on! Have a sense of humor!!

  • Sandor

    good
    Google has more then enough data about me, from my ip address and up to network packets sniffed by google streetview spy cars
    I am pretty happy that my location data will not be shared with this behemoth.

  • Demensi

    Location based programs like Nixle, 4square, and some others are in the right space. This is the future. These players are going to control the local advertising market that’s currently splintered across countless zip codes. Apple isn’t dumb. This move is smart. They’re gonna have to partner up eventually though. 4square is raking in the local info but they’re not providing a service. Companies providing an actual service in the space are the ones that will own the space.

  • Jeff

    SERIOUSLY? Google uses their location data to build their traffic information. Dick move Apple.

  • Relwal

    Why does it still say “Google” in the lower left corner of the Maps app under iOS 3.2 and 4.0 if Apple is no longer using Google for “location-based services”? Is a map not a “location-based service”?

    In that letter Apple doesn’t actually say they are no longer using Google and Skyhook. It just says that as of 3.2 and 4.0 they are now using Apple’s own databases.

    Clearly the writing is on the wall, but based on the multi-billion dollar investments in map technology that Google and others have made, I would guess Apple has a long way to go before they can replace them.

  • youngluck

    Yes. THe ability to pin point where you are/where you go. Taken alone it seems pointless. But add that to the information basket, which includes: Who you are, how old you are, what you do, your credit card info, your buying habits and it becomes a very big piece of a puzzle that is invaluable to ADVERTISERS. Example: I know you like pizza, because you have indicated so on all of your social networks. You pass within 30 feet of a pizzeria I own. I’d pay to let your map show you where I am. I know thats a crude example, but it gives you an idea… That’s why although Google products are free, the information they extract from WHO YOU ARE is like Gold out here. Apple wants their cut.

  • http://isthisreallynecessary.com Rob

    IF you’re using Google Maps for Mobile AND you turn the tracking feature on. iPhones were never sending this data in the first place.

    (Google Maps for Mobile != Maps iPhone app)

  • http://wakeupworldcoffee.org/wuw/home.html Fernando

    Why are congressmen sending letters to Apple? What do they know about running a company?

    Politicians, I know you get a hard on at trying to control our lives, but please, butt out.

  • Mark

    Yep, been noticing for the past couple of months that my gps doesn’t seem to lock on very well on my 3GS.

  • http://www.aestheticmonk.com aestheticmonk

    While I understand Apple’s business imperatives in this case it has been an unfortunate downgrade in the quality of the data, at least here in Taiwan. Prior to iOS 3.2, the location data for Taiwan got noticeably better on a month to month basis from the time the original iPhone launched. Searching for a location via Google Maps is still excellent. Searching on iPad via Apple – not so excellent. Worse than that, it doesn’t seem to be improving. Apple’s focus is clearly not on Asia. If they are going to take a stab at a Location Data stack, I sincerely hope that the resources are allocated in the realization that location is a *global* phenomenon, and not just in the US. Google, at least, gets that.

  • Sean

    This explains why the Apple maps app is so much better than the Android maps app recently.

    My gf bought a new Samsung Galaxy S Android phone a couple of weeks ago and I have an iPhone 3GS. We were out walking around the city when I asked her to get out her fancy new phone and find us a way home using the maps app.

    A few swearing, confusing minutes later she was saying “why the hell is this app so sh*t compared to the iPhone one!”. At the time didnt have an answer because I figured they were both running off of google maps so I couldn’t explain it.

    Now it all makes sense :)

  • Nikesh

    You’re an idiot if you don’t think Apple apps also send personal info all around the globe. At least Android lets you know upfront what information an app is going to access and allows you decide whether or not to accept those risks and install it. iOS doesn’t do shit. It just installs the app and lets you get pissed about it later IF someone ever discovers the security risk.

  • Steven

    Are you joking, whats wrong with you Google fanboys, its like you’re missing brain cells… Everything Google produces is free to the user (well that is a lie) thanks to all the data they steal from your usage to sell to the highest bider. Apple is all about creating a competitive technology package that integrates seamlessly with your life (who wants to learn about some stupid data page to keep from getting ripped off?) without selling your soul to do it.

    You are an idiot if you want Google to take Apple down, a company that provides every service at a high quality and not in beta theft mode. I feel for you’re idiotic mind ;D

  • http://subacme.rerouted.org J.-c. Chu

    This seems to be why (quite) a number of users are no longer able to use the location service after upgrading to iOS 4. See .

  • http://subacme.rerouted.org J.-c. Chu

    Corresponding thread on Apple’s discussion forum: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2475554&tstart=0

  • Nick

    I feel you are rather spinning the truth here. Search bar on android is just a widget and can be deleted. Then you can put a bing widget search bar in its place. Only, it would require Microsoft, or another developer to develop one first.
    So, while it does not exist, I don’t think it is fair to blame Google for not implementing bing for android as well.

    And similarly with all other functions, if you compare android to any other operating system, including desktops, you will find it the most open, as any function can be replaced by third party application. Email client, browser, phone dialer, keyboard, camera, music player, video player, you name it – it can be replaced by a third party app that you download from the store,
    or any web site, too. So you can not even claim that Google can block you to release your apps like Apple does sometimes when they are competing with built in apps.

  • Stephan

    Everything Google produces is free… except their search algorithms?

  • WillisR

    Great article MG. Keep it up ;) these Android Fagboys who come here and READ the whole article then comment sh!t are hilarious. I enjoy when they get angry all the time.

  • Richard

    Android is open.

    The problem is that it’s open to the hardware manufacturers. Whether or not they pass on this openness to operators is up to them.

    In the same way, whether or not the operators pass on (what little) openness they are given by the manufacturers to the customers is up to them.

    In other words, each part takes a chunk out of the openness before passing it on. The result is that the customer often gets very little of the openness goodness.

  • keena

    When Android 2.2 was compared to iOS4, you could see how Android dramatically improves itself, beating the latter in terms of web-page loading. — Especially on Flash. Any chance, Android will drive the future of Location based search? http://2su.de/5Ue

  • airmanchairman

    I am the only one in this entire thread who has kept to the issue at hand, which concerns Apple, Google and location services, rather than descending to the gutter and reverting to demeaning name-calling and off-topic rants about which mobile platform is better – glorious Apple or faceless Android.

    Oh wait…

  • WillisR

    You are clearly talking out of your ass. Do you know the App Store AT ALL? lol such an idiot.

  • kensons

    And the fact that you realize that he’s a superdouche. Makes you the omega of all douches.. LOL!

  • WillisR

    How is the steal-users’-personal-information working for you Android developers? Stealing peoples phone numbers is fun huh? FAGGOTS.

  • JScottA

    It still says Google because the actual map being shown is a Google Map. That is very different than the location information of what/who is where in space.

  • Vino

    Looking for Free turn by turn maps and directions with traffic, rerouting and voice guidance, look for the Mapquest App.

    I had tried MQ a while back and then I tried MotionX and others but truly the MQ app is the much better than even Google Maps.

    Those ios already have a free turn-by-turn gps app – it’s just not reported. This is another example of an app developer outsmarting Google. Google has had no new ideas since Search and it’s showing.

  • JoshK

    Did you try resetting your network router or changing your network name? No guarantee that this works, but it’s worth a shot.

  • Han

    Should we talk about the security flaws in the iPad regarding Safari that gave out email addresses to quite a few people?

    You know, the same flaw people have warned Apple time and time again about yet didnt do anything and thus the above flaw was exploited?

    At least other companies react to their flaws. Apple just puts its fingers in it’s ears and goes into denial.

  • Shawn

    “At least that guy made an entertainment” and “…you can just use this ballpen, and f*ck yourself out.”

    What? What does that mean?

  • amolpatil2k

    Reminds me of Gravatar. Automattic bought it because it is the best way to track all comments for any of those 25 million email accounts. Then Automattic kept all this data to itself. Hmm…

blog comments powered by Disqus
Advertisement
Got a tip? Building a startup? Tell us