Web 2.0 to China: Ok, Let’s Try This Again…
Sarah Lacy
Jun 8, 2010

Yesterday, I had lunch with one of the top people in the Chinese Internet scene who said, “We have a saying here, ‘Internet multinationals all fail in China, Google was just the last one to go.’”

As sayings go, that’s not especially catchy. But it is devastating. And true even if you count Google’s recent actions as a China morally-based forfeit. The stark truth is there are already more Chinese than Americans online and China is only at about 20% Internet penetration. And yet, so far, Yahoo is the only one to play this market well, by swapping its local assets and $1 billion for a 40% stake in Alibaba back in 2005.

But a funny thing has happened between my last trip to China in October of last year and my current trip. The Silicon Valley Web 2.0 gang has invaded. OK, “invaded” is the wrong word, it’s more like gingerly “waded into the pool.” Most of the entrants are being very cautious, staying below the radar with limited, hedged plans. But there is a clear trend of Web 2.0 testing the Chinese waters—and hoping it doesn’t make the mistake the first generation made.

The picture above– snapped at a Beijing newsstand where Scarlett Johansson and Sarah Jessica Parker were the only other faces I recognized– is a good metaphor for the kind of hey!-don’t-look-at-us!, easing-into-the-market approach the Web 2.0 generation is taking. (Note the word “metaphor.” I’m not implying Facebook planted this or even pitched the story to what I understand is an English language learning magazine.)

There is Playfish’s office, the Zynga acquisition of XPD Media and Hulu CEO Jason Killar’s recent visit to Beijing where he announced an impending China launch. Just last weekend Max Levchin of Slide hosted a developer day at the company’s Shanghai office. Who even knew Slide had a Shanghai office? (It’s interesting that Levchin grew up in Soviet Russia just like Google founder Sergey Brin but apparently doesn’t have the same hang up with the Chinese government.) Facebook is reportedly opening an office next and I spoke with several people over the last week who said they had gotten calls from headhunters.

Will Silicon Valley Web 2.0 companies do better than the 1.0 generation? It depends on what the community has learned from such abject failure. A few lessons seem obvious, judging by the new, more cautious approach.

Lesson #1: The Valley learned it can’t be cocky. No one is making bold statements about taking over the Chinese market the way Web 1.0 leaders did. I remember a keynote by Meg Whitman in the early 2000s where she boasted that the “Sun never sets on eBay,” so assured of its future in China. Yeah, that didn’t go so well. No one is swaggering into China with the same bravado today. China has developed more $1 billion-plus Internet companies than any other market and most of them started out as US copycats on features, where they excelled was in process, execution and business models. Today, Web entrepreneurs get that.

Lesson #2: It’s China’s house, you have to play by China’s rules. A lot of people hate this one, but it’s just reality. You know that scene in “Jerry Maguire” where Tom Cruise storms out of the office and says “WHO IS COMING WITH ME?” and pretty much only Renee Zellweger joins him? That’s pretty much what Google’s pull out of the China market in March was. Since that date, Web 2.0 companies have only upped their China hires.

Lesson #3: Hire first, launch later. Most of these offices are just development offices, taking advantage of local talent. But make no mistake: This is a savvy way to assess the market and build connections. Talent isn’t that cheap in Beijing and Shanghai relative to the rest of the emerging world and the price is escalating. Call it the Hulu model– the company had an R&D division in Bejing long before it announced its recent intention to actually launch service in China.

All-in-all these three lessons make for a smart strategy. China is the only country outside the United States that’s given birth to several billion-dollar-plus Internet companies and there’s some $20 billion in venture capital sloshing around this country, by some estimates, that’s anxious to find the next local crop. There’s no question there’s a lot of momentum investing here and a lot of these startups will fail. But whenever you have this much activity and 400 million people online, there will be more big hits too. This is simply not our market for the taking.

But where the Web 1.0 generation was too cocky, the question is whether the Web 2.0 generation is being too cautious. Online games and virtual goods are already big markets in China—bigger than in the US in fact. And there are already big local iterations of things like Facebook and Twitter. Is it already too late for some of these companies?

Clearly, the Valley is still trying to figure out how it plays in China. At least this generation is trying to learn, listen and make friends first and colonize later.

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  • http://startupmeme.com Sardar Mohkim Khan

    It is interesting how everyone online is trying to penetrate the Chinese online market and failing nonetheless. I jut wonder if these online firms would be willing to have a very 'Pro-Chinese- law' versions of their sites/services to have a green from the government.

  • It doesn't matter

    Did you say "colonize"? ROFL
    That was funny. Chinese internet companies will f..ck you personally and as a whole SV bunch of hippie idiots having no idea about biz. There is no doubt who will 'colonize' who, because it's a question of price and freedom to build businesses while you, guys will be litigating around phony 'patents' and all that useless s..t.

    Thank you for the good morning laugh.

  • http://www.facebook.com/forestcall Matt Lawson

    Sara Lacy-

    Good on you for doing some more reporting in China. But I do not think you have the real story. If you went to a big city to "scoop"your story then you have a bent angle of the "real China".

    Sorry but the place to be for getting AWESOME talent is Xi'an Polytechnic University.

    Talent begins at $400 and averages around $1000 for serious skill.
    Office rent is cheap if you make friends and do the "dinner scene".

    Having a development office in Beijing or Shanghai is more for Westerners who can't handle the Xian lifestyle. In fact those who try and startup in the big cities like Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, Shenzhen (Shekou) really do not understand how to play in China. The living conditions in these cities are 100% nicer than Xian but the talent, apartment and living cost is easily 500% higher.

    Having lived and worked in China since 2004 I have moved to all the cities I listed. I finally set up 2 offices in Sanya, China (tropical island) and Xian China. In Sanya I in have a fancy apartment for half the cost of Shanghai and I get to surf in the ocean and enjoy fresh seafood. In Xian as my main office for development I can pay $2500 a month for 2000 SQ. meters of office space. Computers with a monitor cost roughly $200 a pop. Apartments are ultra cheap. Many of my developers rent a 1 bedroom for $90-150 USD.
    a heaping bowl of noodle meat Soup is still 3-4 RMB.

    I can not imagine starting a project ion in such expensive cities. But I think what happens is hungry entrepreneurs come to China thinking they can figure out the scene but realize the costs are on par with large USA cities. Part of China's big city business lifestyle is going to fancy restaurants, night-clubs, etc. the costs begin to sky-rocket. Taxi's avg. 11RMB but in Xian taxi's are 7 RMB which adds up quick. In Shanghai an average lunch is 40 RMB but in Xian lunch hovers around 8 rmb.

  • Wen Jiabo

    Sarah, you're wrong.

    I'm a Western expat that currently lives in China:

    - Youtube has been blocked since March 2009
    - Facebook since July 2009
    - Twitter since July 2009
    - WordPress/Blogspot hosted-sites have been blocked for years before that
    - Mashable/Foursquare are now blocked

    Under the pretext of blocking harmful material, the CCP and Politburo have effectively cut off an entire "internet year" for local developers (hell, the regime is so scared of 140 characters that they even ban domestic twitter start-ups).

    Chinese consumers are worse off for this, especially since these two government entities then prop up domestic companies who will have an unfair advantage when/if these blocks are lifted (Tudou, Youku and Xunlei stream hundreds of TV/movies for free… I wonder what Chinese people will stick with if/when Youtube is allowed to come back. Renren.com is a total rip-off of Facebook, they've developed nothing new… even Zynga farms are copied by dozens of insulated developers).

    And don't get all sanctimonious about Levchin vs Brin. During the height of the Google spat, admins from Renren would remove any post that had to do with Google. Yea, that's right. College kids here couldn't mention it at all, let alone traditional media sources (like the incredulous commentators on CCTV).

    Methinks you should relook at this hazard list posted a week ago here at TC: http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/30/geeksonaplance-a...

    Lesson #4 The only way a foreign tech company will be allowed to succeed is if they pay off local government officials (through the time-honored practice of "guanxi"). This money is then partly used to fund domestic competition who copies everything from them. That is the full state of Web 2.0 dev in China.

  • http://www.facebook.com/forestcall Matt Lawson

    I dont know about your strong harsh view.

    But I do agree that USA companies are ULTRA focused on patents and all the stuff that a Chinese startup will not bother with.

  • Tejano

    Sarah, you're wrong.

    I'm a Western expat that currently lives in China:

    - Youtube has been blocked since March 2009
    - Facebook since July 2009
    - Twitter since July 2009
    - WordPress/Blogspot hosted-sites have been blocked for years before that
    - Mashable/Foursquare are now blocked

    Under the pretext of blocking harmful material, the CCP and Politburo have effectively cut off an entire "internet year" for local developers (hell, the regime is so scared of 140 characters that they even ban domestic twitter start-ups).

    Chinese consumers are worse off for this, especially since these two government entities then prop up domestic companies who will have an unfair advantage when/if these blocks are lifted (Tudou, Youku and Xunlei stream hundreds of TV/movies for free… I wonder what Chinese people will stick with if/when Youtube is allowed to come back. Renren.com is a total rip-off of Facebook, they've developed nothing new… even Zynga farms are copied by dozens of insulated developers).

    And don't get all sanctimonious about Levchin vs Brin. During the height of the Google spat, admins from Renren would remove any post that had to do with Google. Yea, that's right. College kids here couldn't mention it at all, let alone traditional media sources (like the incredulous commentators on CCTV).

    Methinks you should relook at this hazard list posted a week ago here at TC: http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/30/geeksonaplance-a...

    Lesson #4 The only way a foreign tech company will be allowed to succeed is if they pay off local government officials (through the time-honored practice of "guanxi"). This money is then partly used to fund domestic competition who copies everything from them. That is the full state of Web 2.0 dev in China.

  • mindreader

    The most stupid way to end the otherwise decent article – the colonization mentality is so ingrained in your mindset by your spin-masters… It's just a shame to say the least!

  • Guest

    Sarah, you're wrong.

    I'm a Western expat that currently lives in China:

    - Youtube has been blocked since March 2009
    - Facebook since July 2009
    - Twitter since July 2009
    - WordPress/Blogspot hosted-sites have been blocked for years before that
    - Mashable/Foursquare are now blocked

    Under the pretext of blocking harmful material, the CCP and Politburo have effectively cut off an entire "internet year" for local developers (hell, the regime is so scared of 140 characters that they even ban domestic twitter start-ups).

    Chinese consumers are worse off for this, especially since these two government entities then prop up domestic companies who will have an unfair advantage when/if these blocks are lifted (Tudou, Youku and Xunlei stream hundreds of TV/movies for free… I wonder what Chinese people will stick with if/when Youtube is allowed to come back. Renren.com is a total rip-off of Facebook, they've developed nothing new… even Zynga farms are copied by dozens of insulated developers).

    And don't get all sanctimonious about Levchin vs Brin. During the height of the Google spat, admins from Renren would remove any post that had to do with Google. Yea, that's right. College kids here couldn't mention it at all, let alone traditional media sources (like the incredulous commentators on CCTV).

    Methinks you should relook at this hazard list posted a week ago here at TC: http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/30/geeksonaplance-a...

    Lesson #4 The only way a foreign tech company will be allowed to succeed is if they pay off local government officials (through the time-honored practice of "guanxi"). This money is then partly used to fund domestic competition who copies everything from them. That is the full state of Web 2.0 dev in China.

  • Gen Kanai

    "China is the only country outside the United States that’s given birth to several billion-dollar-plus Internet companies"

    Sarah, not true. Japan has a number of billion-dollar (USD) Internet companies. Mixi, Gree and DeNA, not to mention Yahoo! Japan, Rakuten, and others.

  • http://twitter.com/johnerik @johnerik

    Fun China fact (that you're comment cause me to think of)…

    besides stoplights, very often red is associated with the positive. For instance, in financial data, red means up and green means down. Confused me.

  • http://twitter.com/johnerik @johnerik

    Good point, Gen.

    My question to that sentences would be: How many of those "several billion-dollar-plus Internet companies" were founded by foreigners? In fact, how many successful Chinese startups have been founded by foreigners?

    I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm in China right now, I'm just interested to see if anyone can think of some. I can't right now.

  • http://twitter.com/Parker_Short @Parker_Short

    I think there's (at least) two factors working against web 2.0 companies trying to go big in China. One is that when your product is based on the open sharing of information between applications, it's very hard to in grain in your processes the self-censorship that's required to do business there. The companies get frustrated by the favoritism towards companies that are able to do this, chalk it up to nationalism, and then leave the country. That's for groups that wait to enter the market.
    The other thing that hurts their efforts is that the Chinese psyche isn't really geared towards takings risks. Whereas Westerners often say things like 'the tallest blade of grass is the first to get cut' ironically, the Chinese have a similar saying of 'the tallest tree is the first to get blown down' that they take much more seriously. So instead of innovating, they instead copy big companies, adjust the model for China, and then reap the rewards. With such poor intellectual property rights, Chinese entrepreneurs have pretty much free rein to do so (see http://www.renren.com).
    I'd propose instead that start-ups should begin with more of an international strategy. Unfortunately that's very hard to do when your resources are thin, but it's really the only option you have if you want to preserve your international ambitions. And also have servers in Asia. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to try to Facebook chat with people in China only to have the website stop responding.

  • http://www.facebook.com/thehonger James Hong

    i believe most (but sounds like not all wrt Hulu) of the SV companies setting up shop in China right now are doing it for the talent pool, not to hit the Chinese market. Technically, it's still illegal for non-Chinese companies to even operate games in China. That being said, being in China gives companies access to a large, concentrated amount of pretty awesome talent (whether at a fraction of the US price or not). That, and the work ethic in China is insanely strong. (Independent thinking and creativity are still behind on average, but look for that to change over time as well)

  • Silk

    1st – Hangzhou, Suzhou, Nanjing, Qingdao and Dalian are all great alternatives to Shanghai, Beijing & Shenzhen and less remote than Sanya
    2nd – Guangzhou should not be listed anywhere….
    3rd – Yes, Xi'an is relatively cheap, but the cities listed in #1 above have plenty of talent and can easily attract talent from Xi'an while providing a better overall living environment for both local and foreign talent than Xi'an

  • http://www.mediarockets.com Media Rockets

    It's not about IP, nor is it about privacy issues. It's about cultural awareness and understanding of people's value systems, and what is important to people on a daily basis. When have we seen a Chinese internet company succeed in the U.S. ? And vice versa? A Japanese internet company succeed in China or the U.S. ? As humans, we are inherently drawn to and positively reinforced by people, context, process, culture and models which we have an affinity towards: those that speak the same language, and have lived the same lives. Like the few combatant nations which have tried to win wars in China, Web 1.0 and 2.0 attempts to market entry will end the same way – a small Chinese smirk and hearty laugh over a bottle of Jiu. Gan bei !

  • http://twitter.com/llboston @llboston

    One of the founders of qunar.com is a foreigner.

  • oops

    lol. can't agree more.

  • http://www.facebook.com/forestcall Matt Lawson

    Good points-

    It is true cities like Dalian and Qingdao are awesome! Beautiful mountains and nice people. Very little crime in Dalian. But many developers have good friends in Xian from their University days. It is a very nice community of developers. The general culture around Xian breaths and sleeps "tech".

    The other HUGE issue with relocation is what if the developer is not as skilled as they say? Or what if the stress of the work is too much and this person needs to be let go? Then you have to find another person and your project stalls. In Xian where there are so many incredible skilled developers you can allow developers to work for reduced rate for a week or two to determine if they are skilled enough to work long-term.

    Maybe my needs are different. In the next 12 months my company goals are to grow past 1000 developers and to do this we need a DEEP talent pool. Each week people are quiting or getting fired, sick, etc. You need a constant flow of new developers and living in Xian is where its at :-)

    Have you visited Xi'an Polytechnic University? It is really cool.

  • AQ Yang

    You really know China!

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  • http://juegosdemotos.me/ Mike Juegos

    Agreed. It is nothing like what it was in Haidian – around Qinghua – back in 2002 – 2006. It was already getting much expensive in 2007.

    Quick question though. Is there a technology park in Xian to take advantage of tax incentives.

    Large companies need to settle in the largest cities apparently but I agree small developers or start-ups can choose Xian as a base.

  • hello

    Voucherseeker, you are the worst spammer I ever seen.

  • guest

    Fun China Fact

    White people and even Asian foreigners have no guanxi and will always be looked upon with suspicion by the government. They don't want your nasty oversexed mentality (among other things) in their country or in their video games/movies.

    Why do you think Zynga had to buy out a loser company. To hire native workers that's why.

  • guest

    Xi'an is a dirt toilet. Was in 2001 and I'm sure it still is. Live there if you want lung cancer and an early death.

    And it's not expensive, unless you're a foreigner. You see, Chinese like to charge outsiders more money than the natives.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sgrimm Steven Grimm

    Of the top five web sites in Taiwan, four are western. That should not be possible if it's all about Chinese culture and value systems.

  • Paul

    But Sarah's Posts are very interesting, worthwhile and enjoyable to read. Maybe her style of writing is what it makes such a pleasant read.

  • ashley steinhausen

    Not gone public, but http://www.zhaopin.com was founded by foreigners, including me. Valued at USD 250 mill when bought in 2008.
    My latest thing is a mobile based recruitment platform. You can see the slideshow on my LI Home Page. Also http://www.dazhi.mobi

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