The Steady, Efficient Decline Of Yahoo
Michael Arrington
Feb 27, 2010

Efficiency is a business school idea that suggests a company is running smoothly. It’s absolutely terrific when you’re talking about a coal mining operation or a Supercuts. But when it comes to a company like Yahoo it’s not a positive. The Internet is still in its wild west days, and the “ready, fire, aim” game plan of Facebook and the other young guns is eating their lunch. Even the massive Google is still trying to shake things up with new and controversial products.

Yahoo’s strategy seems more like “ready, aim, aim, aim, aim…”

Yesterday Jordan Rohan at Thomas Weisel Partners described Yahoo in his first analyst report on the company. He thinks this is the right management team to bring more efficiency to Yahoo. But he spends most of his time talking about the negatives, and there’s no excitement around new products or ideas:

For the record, we happen to believe the current management team is the right one at this stage in Yahoo!’s corporate evolution. The team is bringing efficiency to a massively inefficient company. Yahoo! is weighed down today by dozens of code bases, thousands of revenue-producing properties, at least three sales force factions (display, search, ad network), and a few thousand “extra” employees needed to run the media company today due to its complicated legacy assets and far-flung acquisitions.

On the upside, he notes that a cyclical upswing in advertising is likely to help Yahoo.

Here are a few of the negatives:

  • “Morale may have rebounded a bit from the trough, but our conversations reveal that morale has a long way to go.”
  • “Our recent discussion with Yahoo! management focused more on costs and efficiency than growth.”
  • “User behavior is shifting strongly to social and mobile media and away from traditional portals.”
  • “Efforts to become more meaningful in social media have been unsuccessful”
  • “U.S. assets make up only about onethird of Yahoo!’s $21 billion value today”
  • “Yahoo!’s stock compensation expense is approximately equal to 25% of its annual EBITDA, compared with 11% for GOOG and 13% for EBAY”

More worrying are the metrics comparisons to Facebook. Rohan notes that total minutes spent by U.S. visitors to Facebook are set to surpass Yahoo. And the worldwide numbers are even worse. Facebook now has 160 million daily visitors and 227 billion monthly page views worldwide (Comscore), compared to 160 million and just 94 billion for Yahoo. Yahoo still has tons of daily visitors, but they are spending 12% less time on the site in aggregate compared to a year ago. In the same period Facebook has grown total page views by 217%.

Yahoo will continue to shrink as sites are sold off and shuttered, and CEO Carol Bartz works on those efficiency gains. But this is no longer even close to an exciting company that thrives on chaotic creativity. Yahoo’s foundation is rotten. They have no plan to get back into the game. Or if they do have a plan, no one knows about it.

Sadly, the first site many of us ever visited on the Internet is turning into little more than a business school study in financial engineering. It deserved a better fate.

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  • bora

    User-base is also important. Ever visit Yahoo Buzz? It is chock full of people eager to maim and kill the rest of the world. As a non-American people and atmosphere there terrifies me. I’m not even mentioning the surreal place that is Yahoo Answers. They are, like, the cheap motel of internet visitors I think. With all kinds of lowly scum.

  • Louis-Eric

    This analyst needs to think straight (or re-read The Goal by Eliyahu Goldratt). “Efficiency” by itself means nothing. What he is talking about is reducing operational costs which, as Michael hints to, may not be the smartest thing to do in an innovation-based business.

    Efficiency is always towards a goal; could be profitability (the most common one at first, and the only one long term), attention, loyalty, eyeballs. What’s the goal for Yahoo ?

  • Laurent

    Either the management in place wakes up and shifts strategy 180°, or like you say, they’ll follow a slow death…

  • Michael Arrington

    The thing is, the kind of people that Yahoo needs to turn things around won’t go anywhere near that company. Why swim upstream in such a difficult environment when you can work at a super-growth pre-IPO startup like Facebook or Twitter. There’s a giant sucking sound coming out of Yahoo HQ, and things are going to get much worse before they start to get better.

  • toddq

    “the big story for Yahoo is display advertising, which surged 26% quarter-over-quarter to $503 million. He noted that most (though not all) of the company’s ad verticals are recovering, pricing is “firming up”, and Yahoo has key inventory for advertisers.”
    http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/jan2010/pi20100127_022411.htm
    (1/27/2010)

  • toddq

    It’s laughable that MSFT offered such an outrageous amount of money to buy YHOO a couple of years ago. Now they are getting what they want for pennies on the dollar.

    YHOO will probably have the same fate as another dot com star, Sun Microsystems. Doing a reverse split screwing over shareholders and then being bought out.

  • http://techcrunchies.com Anand Srinivasan

    The problem is Yahoo’s generalized portfolio..you simply cannot describe the company in one sentence..Even Google with its gazillion properties can be still be said to be an advertising network.

    Yahoo? Though it can also be defined the same way, the company has not synergized its various properties…If I were Yahoo, I would have introduced ‘Save to delicious’ links across its search results, ‘Search from my Flickr album’ option,etc.

    I mean only guys in technology even know that Flickr, Delicious are all Yahoo properties…They are still floating across the web as they did pre-acquisition..

  • http://www.techretold.com Shan

    Yahoo is another Myspace in the making..

  • lelapin

    I don’t see any decline on the monthly total users chart for Yahoo. Relative to Facebook Yahook is indeed decreasing but on its own it is not.

  • dasein

    Nice post, Michael.

    This is what I like to read in TC… Thoughtful things.

  • allenhsieh

    frankly, your bashing of Yahoo will only contribute to its decline… yes it deserves a better fate so maybe it’s time you find something nice to say about it.

  • John

    Yahoo is the AOL of the 00′s – a failure to adapt or innovate. Short term focus at cost of long term viability. Like AOL it went through a failed merger – if I was a Yahoo shareholder I’d be mighty pissed off with Jerry Yang

  • Agile Cyborg

    Yahoo escaped its initial vibrancy and appears to have sunk into a odd corporate/mainstream banality that repels me. Their Yahoo Answers is a receptacle for some of the dullest thinking on earth.

  • http://www.muzikfetish.net Ty

    Spot on with the disparate sites. Also, have any of you ever tried to sign up for Yahoo Advertising? It’s a nightmare. I couldn’t even get approved for my small blog. Google signed me up in less than 5 min. That’s why you see Google ads everywhere.

  • dasein

    I have never found a good answer on Yahoo Answers. Not a single cogent or relevant answer.

  • Frank Daley

    Watch the trend … a Microsoft bear hug and then – stagnation.

    Yahoo is simply the latest victim in a long line of embrace and destroy strategies employed by Microsoft for decades.

  • Moe Glitz

    I have a copy of Businessweek from 1999 in which they looked at what they called ‘E-life’.
    There was not a single mention of Google and the overall summary seem to be that Yahoo was the internet.
    It was done and dusted. Yahoo Rules!

    Amazingly Yahoo had the opportunity to acquire Google in its early years, but they failed to agree on a price. Which today, seems like the best option especially for all web users.

    Just imagine if Yahoo did acquire Google back then, would Google be as powerful as it is today.
    Would we have Gmail, Google Earth, Google Maps, Android, etc.

    Yahoo at the time along with AOL and MSN were all powerful Portals. They thought that by having eMail, Messenger, News plus a Classified and Display Ad Service, they controlled the web.

    How could Yahoo with its high User Base let things slip through its fingers.
    One of the main reasons for its decline has to be the appointment of Jerry Semel.
    As he tried to turn Yahoo into a new Content based Web Media Company, he completely missed the Web 2.0 boat of UGC that both MySpace and Facebook delivered.

    Its a crying shame. Ya-boo!

  • GB

    This kind of articles really makes me laugh. It really shows the lack of professionalism we read over here on a daily basis.

    – More worrying are the metrics comparisons to Facebook. Rohan notes that total minutes spent by U.S. visitors to Facebook are set to surpass Yahoo.–

    >> When are you gonna understand that the hype does not reflect the reality ? Yahoo! does not need to be compared to Google, AOL or Facebook simply because there is nothing to compare here.

    Who’s at least in the top 3 of news, sports, mail, messenger ? You wanna compare ? OK how much does FB make ? Not a f-ing a penny. the truth is, FB has the crappiest kind of revenues compare to its traffic…. nothing to be proud of. Get you facts straight, Yahoo! makes more money with their Answers service alone than FB.

    The whole article is fud. SHould it remind everyone that Yahoo! has been closing properties for a couple years to refocus its strategy. Naaawww nobody cares.

    – Yahoo will continue to shrink as sites are sold off and shuttered, and CEO Carol Bartz works on those efficiency gains. But this is no longer even close to an exciting company that thrives on chaotic creativity. –

    >>So basically the fact that FB or Google come out with privacy sensitive products every couple week is more exciting ? Hello ? Google ripped Search Monkey. Yahoo! publish their work and is publicly judge on those publication. Google prevent everyone from publishing their research while ripping others’ work

    – Yahoo’s foundation is rotten. They have no plan to get back into the game. Or if they do have a plan, no one knows about it.–

    >> No plan to get back in the game. WTF are you to say this. You have no f-king idea about what the company is doing. And it does not make them stupid. Not everybody will let you know their strategy…

    Yahoo! is new new AOL ? WTF. AOL is a great company Oh sure they had financial problem with their crappy internet service but hey who rules IM services ? AOL is nothing like it used to be 10 years ago… but I guess you’re too important to check out their websites

  • julien

    The problem with posts on this blog about Yahoo is that it ONLY focuses on the negative. What would you guys have said if the Google buzz fiasco had happened to Yahoo? And don’t forget that your point of view is very much Us centric. Growth will be coming from Asia in the next 10 years and Yahoo has very nice, locallly managed assets there, plenty of potential value and less of a “latest cool thing that will vanish when people get bored with it” aspects as Twitter

  • Olivier

    InsideFacebook reports 45.3 million active US Facebook users in Feb 2009. But the comScore chart reports only 10 million total user minutes in the US. for the same month ??

  • Que Ling

    In other news, Yahoo’s Jerry Yang is going back to the family business: Chinese food-to-go.

    He will assume dual roles, both as a sauce-mixing apprentice (he’s only good with Moo Goo Gai Pan sauce so far) and as a delivery driver on the family 2001 Honda Dream 125 CC moped, specially equipped with a milk crate to on the handlebar to prevent the egg drop soup from dropping.

    An innovator at heart, Jerry has already had some bright ideas today, officially his first day on the job, during which he engaged in a lengthy discussion with Mai-Ling, a veteran waitress, on the possibility of doing E-FortuneCookies. The idea is to send fortune cookie messages to dinner’s Blackberries, thereby avoiding the need to sweep up crumbs at the end of the night.

  • http://blog.sagepointsoftware.com/?feed=rss2 Rich Wilner

    Anand,
    A counterpoint: There is an alternate strategy of creating a conglomerate independent brands, especially when those brands are strong pre-acquisition.

    There are a few advantages here. First, the brand endures as before, but the resources of the larger organization are able to evolve it. Second, keeping the brands independent means that if one falls out of favor or fails, the others are unaffected.

    Of course, this has to be a deliberate strategy decision, not one made because of a failure to do *anything.*

  • http://blog.sagepointsoftware.com/?feed=rss2 Rich Wilner

    ?? Examples please.

  • Jack

    Yahoo! has been my homepage since 1996… and I enjoy it’s overall experience but it does sort of feel as if it’s unfolding like a MySpace or AOL story.

    Wish I had sold Yahoo’s stock during the Microsoft tender offer.

    Man Jerry, you really screwed up with that one.

  • CDD

    hey mike- why aren’t your posts color- highlighted any more? i liked how the mods were identified, and that usually was a point of interesting/important discussions. what gives?

  • bob e

    I never understood why people even visit Yahoo. I am embarrased by the name as it reminds me of AOL days from the 90s. My homepage stays as MSN which hopefully gets the new redesign soon.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=833653150 Satyajit Sahu

    Ahh .. don’t make an SGI out of Yahoo! Once respected, now biting the dust (i.e. SGI)! (Funnily enough, the former SGI building is now the Computer History Museum)

  • will

    i dont know about ready aim, aim, aim,

    as far as i can tell they are holding the gun by the wrong end.

    this is why im not a fan of IPOs unless they are absolutely neccesary. it is hard to focus on the long term future, when you have shareholders demanding improvements every quarter.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=553191546 Zara Lockwood

    I’ve come to the conclusion yahoo don’t want to make any money – I can see two tweaks they could do to mybloglog for example to make it worth a webmaster paying for – as in the message all your followers function (others charge for this) and the traffic function (they show the position of your keywords if a person has clicked on a link) – they could cut those for non payers – then have a premium option – their current upgrade options don’t look enticing as they charge per blog rather than a membership level for all your blogs.

  • Jones

    Well, that fits in with my personal theory that Yahoo is the new AOL; large user base, but trash nonetheless.

  • Jake

    Bing will kill Yahoo in no-time… stupid yahoo..

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=548841349 Arnav Guleria

    lol it’s a F****d company – full turnarounds are rare since, as many other posters have mentioned, good people don’t like to work for dying companies. Yahoo won’t blow up any time soon, but they will start to crawl off into a corner to die, probably being scooped up by someone for the parts just prior.

  • http://styleguidance.com Andrew

    This article is crap.

    Yahoo is still #4 site in the world according to Alexa, #3 site in the world according to compete.

    Even your graph shows that they are staying steady since Feb 2008…hell it’s actually higher by a small margin.

    I mean I’m no Yahoo fan, but you have to be intellectually honest, calling it a decline, is stupid, if they are still a top 3 site in the world. #2 only to Google and Facebook.

  • http://www.tropicalgringo.com/english TropicalGringo

    Excellent post, Michael and spot on so many points. Indeed, the Internet is still in its early days and this type of “Adult Supervision” is great if it’s accompanied by leadership with an idea of where things are going and what role they want to play.
    At this point, looking at the current management team, the best case scenario is for the company to be sold off as soon as the house is spruced up a bit. Thinking that this crew is up to a longer term challenge is simple folly.

  • Marcio von Muhlen

    Right on. I’m finishing up grad school at MIT – around here, bringing up Yahoo as a potential place to work after graduation would be like suggesting we watch Power Rangers during dinner. Yuck.

  • Bend Gules

    Hmmmm.

    I think the original programming Yahoo is producing with Electus and which debuts next month could count as innovative.

    And “financial engineering” can be exciting if it produces enough income…at least for shareholders.

    As I understand it (please correct me if I’m wrong) Yahoo is going to start receiving royalties from MSFT for licensing its patent portfolio to Bing. That could be exciting. Plus, effective this quarter, MSFT is paying the costs (or at least some portion of them) for running YHOO search. That could be exciting too.

  • amy wilsch

    I applied there. I didn’t even get a call back from them.

  • http://techcrunchies.com Anand Srinivasan

    I partly agree with you..On the internet, most websites are acquired for the brand, so it really does not make sense to acquire flickr and redirect users to flickr.yahoo.com

    But what I wanted Yahoo to do is cross-promote their properties..Keeping a conglomerate independent brand is one thing, but to never take it beyond what it was pre-acquisition is another..As a startup, I would really hope for the concept to go viral and me hitting the critical number of users..But if my property is acquired, I would not want the growth to just happen virally..A bit of traffic juice from other Yahoo properties might be nice too..

    I really love Yahoo..I felt really bad when Geocities was shut down..And if Yahoo is not going to cross-promote, then I am afraid the properties might keep falling down one after the other..

  • Etrigan

    This Rohan chap must be a real genius analyst. He’s comparinf minutes spent on Facebook with minutes spent on Yahoo. How exactly do the two compare?

    That’s like comparing time spent in a library with time spent in the supermarket. Yahoo is a content portal, Facebook is a social network. They’re for different things. It’s aples and oranges.
    Well, I guess he had the data to hand, so he had to use it…

  • Jerry Yang

    I know. But I promised my family I won’t screw up on my next venture, Chinese Stir Fried To-Go. I’m also going to open up some dry cleaning businesses in the Bay Area. Would you be interested in investing?

  • futuristic

    My dear friend Arrington,

    You have no fucking idea about what Yahoo! is doing and where Yahoo! is. Do you think that the 13,000 people working there are assholes? They are the fucking same people who work for your Google, Facebook and goddamn Foursquare. There are amazingly smart people at Yahoo! and you have no freaking idea. Google can fucking afford all its m-fucking products every month like Buzz, Wave, Fizz, Soda, Jam, etc as it has a UNLIMITED CASH FLOW from SEARCH. Advertising through search contributes to more than 90% of Google’s revenue. Take out search from Google, Google is peanuts. Yahoo! is a different company and you have no fucking idea what it takes to run the company at such scale. Tell me what do you know about Yahoo? Tell me which is the first Internet company to fucking bring the full Internet on TV? Yeah sure you don’t know – watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_MyEAMyftw .. Yahoo Answers alone makes as much revenue as Facebook. Facebook and Google are great companies. And so is Yahoo. It might not be relevant for geeks and nerds in Silly Valley but taking a fucking car and drive around United States and find out. Go to places like Australia, India, China and ask them if they know what’s Google Wave/Buzz/Fizz. Or ask them if they use Gmail. This is probably the most biased post you’ve ever written Arrington. Please visit Yahoo HQ in Sunnyvale. Find out what the fuck is going on and then show your fuck-face.

  • dc

    internet privacy should not be protecting people & posts like this one. i doubt that feedback like this would be communicated if this tracked back to an actual person. there needs to be more accountability on the internet.

  • Phil

    Oh please. Association is not cause and effect. The much more straightforward answer is that Microsoft, being a mediocre company, is drawn to acquisitions of other mediocre companies. Yahoo stupidly turned them down, apparently not being sufficiently appreciative of their status as a mediocre company without the benefit of Windows and Office captive audience to prop up their mediocrity.

  • Phil

    Apparently you don’t understand that “decline” is a term having to do with a TREND. A single point or position does not constitute a TREND. Many of them observed over time, DOES.

  • Phil

    Yahoo is a content portal? What content would that be? Flickr? Hmm, care to compare the number of photos being posted to Facebook now vs. Flickr? Email? What’s their growth rate vs. Gmail? Search? Haha. So what else comes to mind?

  • http://techcrunchies.com Anand Srinivasan

    Just to illustrate my point, consider this: A search on Google for some random music video will throw up Youtube videos as part of the results..

    But on the other hand try searching for say, “USA flag” on Yahoo search..A section to display images from Flickr is so much missing..

  • Michael Arrington

    Ok Carol. Calm down.

  • nora

    Yahoo’s strategy seems more like “to change their homepage to purple, to sell their company like pizza slices and to sour-grape saying, “yahoo was never a search-engine”

    .. OMG

    Way to go yahoo! For sure this year, will be your yet another super-performance on the way to downfall city. Details: http://bit.ly/is-carol-bartz-a-loser

  • http://www.sourcesqr.com Kelvin Lee

    Yahoo may suck in the states, but it is actually doing pretty good in many other regions like Hong Kong, as the competition is still rather low as a content provider. They still stand if they can pinpoint individual market wisely, and localy.

  • Sales Guys

    As someone who is in market every day with advertisers, VC’s and major portals i want to know what part of 1/3 of your revenue being domestically generated is a bad thing…

    While i agree that the web is still in wild west days (and arguably could be forever because of the unbelievable rate of growth and innovation that only speeds up) having a decentralized revenue machine is probably one of the strongest elements Yahoo has going for it.

    Also, on a personal note, i think the evaluation of Yahoo’s culture is very poor in the report. I have been fortunate to do business with Yahoo, Google, AOL, Comcast and many others and i have meet great people at them all. The Yahoo culture is strong, and i say that from years of experience working with them.

    To be fair, i will also say that AOL’s culture has changed dramatically since Big TA came into power (which is great). They are clearly still doing some re-org to make things run like they should, but all-in-all a great start.

    Mike, you are clearly one of the most respected and trusted voices in new media, i would suggest you do some of these studies yourself, so you can come to conclusions that are not based on other peoples findings.

    You can find me on Chatroullette.

  • amy wilsch

    how does Yahoo Answers make money?

  • mcbeese

    ha ha ha ha ha ha! i’m laughing so hard it hurts!

    GOLD MEDAL response!

    funny thing is, it probably is her.

  • Marcio von Muhlen

    that’s a little harsh actually, I should say Yahoo doesn’t have the luster it used to. And I can only speak for my group of friends.

  • http://mochachilo.wordpress.com Kartikay

    Really? You seem to know a lot – what Yahoo as a mega monster of a company is upto!

    Keep up the great speculation – it was missing from TC, but I’m happy to know its back!

  • Aussie

    WTF? You think we don’t have buzz, Gmail, etc here in Australia? HAHAHAHAHAHA moron.

  • Stevie

    Feedback like this is important in reflecting true sentiments of society.

  • lex

    Think yahoo should by an fresh upstart social network like http://www.fmlife.com or http://www.ventnation.com everyone vents lol

  • Frank Daley

    Glad you asked.

    Microsoft strategies in such cases have a goal or goals such as
    1. Slow down a competitor
    2. Gain market and technical insights that will enable Microsoft to enhance its own competitive product
    3. Damage the reputation of the competitor within its user base
    4. Establish personal contacts within the competitor and drain key staff, either to join Microsoft, or become public supporters of Microsoft strategies.

    Some classic examples that fit into one or more of the above include Novell, Palm and Sun, to name just some of the major ones.

  • sunil

    Dude……Facebook is CIA creation to track your moves. One should be surpirsed by the amount of free marketing it got when no one heard about them

  • http://allmintnohole.com/2010/02/28/the-steady-efficient-decline-of-yahoo/ The Steady, Efficient Decline Of Yahoo | All Mint No Hole

    [...] Efficiency is a business school idea that suggests a company is running smoothly. It2019s absolutely terrific when you2019re talking about a coal mining operation or a Supercuts. But when it comes to a company like Yahoo it2019s not a positive. Read ahead [...]

  • Tim

    Yahoo Search does have smart people, and have been working hard to build a wonderful search infrastructure and a platform like panama. Yahoo search is as good as Bing or better, and Adcenter is a joke compared to Panama. Do not give up your strength. You are a search company..

    BTW, MSFT deal did not help your stock price either. Market does think you are a search company. Also, do you understand the strength of YBOSS?

  • http://www.ArticlePlayground.com/ Article Playground

    Alot of people think YaHoO! is a flop. But, as long as they strive to exist and continue to do what they do, they’ll be ok. Everybody has to go through something in order to succeed :-)

  • http://criticasweb.com Paola

    I still remember when Yahoo went public. They were the King of the World and it seemed no one could ever knock them off. Now, I’m surprised to see that the decline is steady and not “jump off a cliff” style. Is there anything that could bring them back?

  • http://www.awebguy.com Mark Aaron Murnahan

    Sometimes a mediocre task accomplished today is better than a great one tomorrow. Perhaps Yahoo! missed that important lesson.

  • Dhiraj

    Who told that Indians don’t use Google.India is one of the top markets of google . Majority of the Indian peoples now have gmail as there primary mail.The biggest fact is that Google services are much better than Yahoo!. Also Yahoo mail is a complete nonsense..

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=594153546 Clint Pee

    The only thing that yahoo got that is a good product is yahoo answers that’s about it.

    The Padrino
    http://www.thepadrino.com

  • Techie

    Isn’t the guy who wrote the article the same one who predicted Myspace to have value of 15$ billion within few years ?

    “Jordan Rohan predicted it would be “worth $15 billion within three years” (source: Keen, A. 2007. The Cult of the Amateur). ”

    Interesting read though…..

  • http://www.theskyeclub.com Paul Martin

    Lighten up Francis!

  • GB

    Traffic + ads + search engine…. basics

  • GB

    Apparently you don’t understand that “decline” is a term to be used globally for a company’s global activities….certainly not the case here.

  • GB

    as stated before content from news, finance, entertainment…where they place themselves in the top 3 position How can one be stupid enough to compare a 10 yo email service targeting everyone to a 5 yo email service targeting more advanced users btw ?

  • GB

    wonder if it’s worth explaining. TC lives by the hype just to get more traffic. If the general trend is to hate Yahoo! then TC will hate Yahoo! as well…and present stupid arguments….

  • GB

    thanks for mentioning those point that TC was either too stupid to remember or carefully avoided to mention just to make a stupid point

  • GB

    oh yeh MSN is so different from Yahoo! and AOL… you definitely understood everything here…well done

  • GB

    NO it’s entirely true. You simply have no f-ing idea. Seriously do you job and stop living by the hype.

    One shall not compare Yahoo! to Google or Fb simply because there is nothing to compare . It’s like comparing MS and Xerox.

    Spitting on Yahoo! is completely dumb given the fact that the company has been trying hard to refocus for the past year, one can only expect great result. why don’t you mention :
    - MS/Yahoo! search deal
    - closing several properties
    - social agreements with FB & Twitter
    Is is too hard to understand than the company is on its way back to the top. And if not… who cares, wtf is going to be dumb enough chose twitter over Yahoo! as a place to work.

    It’s pretty easy for a startup with no revenue whatsoever to go thru a crisis… When twitter and FB will have the balls to develop their financial strategy then we’ll speak about actually growth and actual decline

  • Ron

    Yahoo only hires people who know bubble sort algorithm; LOL.

  • pasnik

    I find Yahoo pretty awesome. Mail Plus, Flickr Pro and the new calendar are great ad-free apps. Recently tried Gmail again but couldn’t tolerate the text ads anymore. Even started to use Delicious again to store my private bookmarks for use on the mobile.

  • fjpoblam

    Yes, yahoo is in decline in some ways, I agree. It is as Carol intends currently. I think she’s trying to focus on a few good things. I still use the start page and the mail.

    I hope for a mail competitor to gmail, just because of the TOS differences. In my mind Gorg has gotten way too beeg and is scary. [Off topic.] I’ll keep using Yahoo mail until there’s a viable alternative for my iPod Touch.

  • http://www.theskyeclub.com Paul Martin

    Lol, what?!?

  • http://www.theskyeclub.com Paul

    I’m afraid I agree with Arnav. It’s survival of the fittest, writ large. Big companies are like mile-long, locomotive trains. Once they get a lot of momentum going in one direction, it’s hard to stop them and point them in a new direction, and sometimes they end up crashing.

  • http://www.theskyeclub.com Paul Martin

    I coulda been a contender….

  • Paul Martin

    Apparently you don’t understand that “decline” is a term used to describe the diminishment of a brand, the consumer perception, certainly the case here.

  • Paul Martin

    Gosh, you are just filled with such savage vitriol! Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays!

  • AV

    Sure, in number, gender and degree

  • http://www.dailypatricia.com patricia

    Did somebody just cite Alexa?! @andrew, seriously — that alone says it all about what you know about the biz.

    Yahoo’s likely making a lot of its money on traffic, not audience. It has lost major market and mindshare. Nothing about this is ever good, period.

    To say AOL is still a great company is like saying people are still using paddleboats instead of steam ships.

  • http://www.yahoo.com Shreyas

    I agree Anand. Good point.
    I believe we (diff team) are working on it but will find out.

    Thanks
    Shreyas

  • Diogenes

    What’s missing in this discussion is that the whole Internet industry as defined by its revenue generation streams such as search advertising, sponsorship advertising pages such as email, finance, etc., are all plateauing. In such a scenario, there will be cost cutting and market share grabbing as the pie stops growing. Unfortunately for Yahoo, it will be the AOL of these sunset dynamics.

  • dotKuro

    It has been common knowledge for some time, I think, that Yahoo is effectively dead. It’s been behind the times almost since the start. It has only just caught on to the idea of SEO, and SEO no longer matters. It has only just caught on to the idea of social media, and is doing it badly. It’s almost unbelievably out-of-touch with its customers yet tries to do the ingratiating I’m-your-friend approach. Yahoo should simply sell everything and the founders should start something different. Yahoo has been in zombie status for a long time now.

  • Piotr

    What a bullshit. You can’t compare Yahoo to Facebook!

  • http://www.awebguy.com Mark Aaron Murnahan

    Wow, I think you got a little rich with the F-bombs there. It was spoken like a true like a Yahoo! employee.

    You know, my wife always tells me that when I curse it just makes me seem less intelligent.

    Market decline is perhaps the consideration to be made here. If that is falling, I don’t believe all the F-bombs will really benefit Yahoo! but rather speak of the fan base.

    When you look at market decline, consider the age-old rule of survival of the fittest.

  • jd

    “Ever visit Yahoo Buzz?”

    No.

  • Thomas Hawk

    Yahoo says with their $100 million “big lie” marketing campaign that the “Internet is under new management, yours.”

    At the same time they go about censoring their users and have no respect for user data. A few months back Yahoo destroyed over 3,000 threads nuking an entire group I was active in without warning. As our community was being destroyed, their community mismanager was tweeting “I hate your freedom.”

    Yahoo is failing to make inroads in social media is because they have no respect for their users, they lack transparency and innovation in the social networking space has stalled.

    Yahoo claims to support a more open and relevant web while activly censoring countries like Germany and India.

    If Yahoo hopes to achieve success in social networking, then they should learn how better to respect the users on their sites who are, you know, doing the actual social networking.

    Google’s recent entry into social networking, buzz, ironicaly being run by former Yahoo social media boss Bradley Horowitz, in contrast is a far more innovative, ambitious, uncensored, and open initiative, that actually seems to care about their users and their users data.

    I suspect over time in addition to Facebook chipping away at Yahoo, so will GOOG.

  • http://aleksandar.grkov.com/blog/?p=40 Yahoo sinking down | Aleksandar Grkov

    [...] The steady efficient decline of yahoo [...]

  • Jim Brickman

    Recent Yahoo hire here. I’m working on amazing infrastructure work that could create an entirely different company.

    It’s true we don’t get as many arrogent know-it-all young college grads, but actually for a large company, that’s a positive. The fact is, Yahoo *isn’t* a startup, and pretending otherwise is a waste of time. We’re a mature company. Mature companies sometimes die, and they sometimes re-invent themselves.

    Yeah, we may fail like AOL, or re-invent ourself as IBM has done several times.

    Other companies face the same issue. Google could fall into similar problems next year. Or they could sail right ahead. Same for Facebook. Microsoft and Apple have both been declared dead and buried several times.

    None of you, or I, can predict which way it will go.

  • Yves

    Worked for y! 10 years and yes management turn over is dramatic, every year new heads come with new plans, new felows, new processes and finally reproduce same errors as they dont listen the field. At the end they take the money and leave.
    Y! does need a strong leadership a la Carol, but unfortunately her unique objective is make shareholders happy (at last) by all means, including complete sell off !
    It’s a shame and sad for the talented guys there.
    Let’s move on and see what Microsoft will do of y! once bought…

  • brian

    “the first site many of us ever visited on the Internet “??? I also thought that….but apparently 1996 is old man…check out the list of oldest domains/websites here. compared to that yahoo is a new born baby…

    http://www.livbit.com/article/2010/02/27/the-worlds-oldest-domain-names-revealed/

  • Woody

    Those who can’t do, teach.
    Those who can’t teach, teach gym.
    Those who can’t teach gym are executives at Yahoo!.

  • Woody

    Those who can, do.
    Those who can’t do, teach.
    Those who can’t teach, teach gym.
    Those who can’t teach gym are executives at Yahoo!.

  • http://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/twitter-dsp-agency-publisher/ Twitter Ad Platform Coming Soon; Mediaweek: Agency DSPs And Publishers Bang Heads; The EIR Life

    [...] "Yahoo’s strategy seems more like 'ready, aim, aim, aim, aim…,'" says TechCrunch's Mike Arrington who references a report late last week by Thomas Weisel analyst, Jordan Rohan, which paints a picture that the executive team at Yahoo! is still fixing the beast before feeding it through more acquisitions. Arrington quotes from Rohan's report, "“Our recent discussion with Yahoo! management focused more on costs and efficiency than growth." Read more. [...]

  • Woody

    Those who can, do.
    Those who can’t do, teach.
    Those who can’t teach, teach gym.
    Those who can’t teach gym are executives at Yahoo.

  • GB

    ” the diminishment of a brand, the consumer perception, certainly the case here.

    >>> again tainted by the stupid Hype. Yahoo! is GAINING customers and users every single day not losing them. Only the TC/FB/Google stupid lovers believe that Yahoo! goes down

  • Michael Arrington

    they need more like you, Jim.

  • Silvrado

    uummmmmaa… lovely response…. i like the language… :-)

    however, i feel G is ubercool.. i have forgot Y!…

  • http://www.pcmech.com/article/do-you-still-yahoo/ Do You Still Yahoo? | PCMech

    [...] only thing people are buzzing about when it comes to Yahoo! these days is how much nobody cares about them anymore. The last big thing they did which caused a huge wave of nostalgia is when they closed Geocities [...]

  • Yuval

    I am doing high-end UX design since 1999, and I for one believe in Yahoo!. I saw the homepage evolve over the years, and have a lot of good stuff to say about it:

    - I love the column on the left side. Great potential there.

    - The news element at the top of the central column is superb. I copied it (and its previous versions) many times with good results.

    Given that it’s basically still a Web 1.0 property its position is not bad at all. Some conversion optimization work needs to be done for the site to take a lead as an addictive experience but the potential is absolutely huge if they play their cards right.

    Some advice to Yahoo!:

    - Add more calls to action on the homepage

    - You have a good brand, leverage it: I don’t see a tag line under your logo, and purple isn’t used well in calls to action on the homepage (which is just as well, since purple buttons aren’t top performers IMHO). A simple way out would be to integrate another color into the logo and use that color when doing the selling. And the white/light blue-grey color contrast you use? It’s worthless from a UX perspective. Too delicate.

    - Too many links in the homepage compared to the number of images and graphic elements. I’m not saying you should remove them, just space them out some more. Push some of them below the fold. I can’t imagine the bulleted link list performs well anyhow.

    - Make the headers and the ” controls stand out more

    - Give users a reason to scroll down. Time spent on the homepage should be measured in minutes, not seconds.

    Good luck. I’m a fan!

  • zim

    he he . . MA is too biased. . i never saw a post for all the failed products that google delivered .. like google answers, google gears and there are so many ..

    what about the competition in other channels like News/Finance/Sports etc.

    Y! mail and Calendar are way ahead than Gmail and g calendar ..

    As u mentioned “Sadly, the first site many of us ever visited on the Internet is turning into little more than a business school study in financial engineering. It deserved a better fate.”
    this shows the maturity of your understanding about a company ..

    Also, did you try to understand how comScore has presented that data and what is the basis of that ? US market is more or less saturated and money is in the Emerging markets. India/China will have more users than US market.

    Get your stats corrected before you make a statement.

    the basic thing is : it is easy to say stuff without understanding the complete picture .. i use to think that you generally talk about issues after getting a holistic picture but I have to change my idea.. .

  • VV

    And this is from a person who doesnt know where to use “forgot” and where to use “forgotten”..

  • mark may

    at last, we agree on something

  • http://thomashawk.com Thomas Hawk

    Jim, you should tell them to lay off the censorship a little bit. Users don’t like that.

  • Bored with these comments

    Shan, apparently you don’t know that Fox Network/MySpace was #2 in in display advertising in 2009.

    Also, Yahoo was by far the #1 firm when it came to display advertising in 2009.

    Where was Google? Try #5 behind Facebook, Microsoft and even AOL!…yes AOL.

    Yes Google is #1 in search….we all know that. But Yahoo is #1 in display and #2 in search. Google is #1 in search and #5 in display. So you do the math.

    http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=17834

  • Classic

    Funny how TC likes to rip Yahoo but it uses Yahoo’s Boss for their own internal seach engine.

    http://techcrunch.com/2008/11/26/techcrunchs-new-search-engine-powered-by-yahoo-boss/

    Must be a love/hate relationship.

  • http://markettalk.newswires-americas.com/?p=9287 Market Talk » Blog Archive » Yahoo’s Best Approach: Efficiency Or Excitement?

    [...] the safe approach doesn’t jibe with everybody. In a blog post over the weekend, TechCrunch’s Michael Arrington argues Yahoo may be getting more efficient [...]

  • http://www.computerdumb.com/do-you-still-yahoo/ Do You Still Yahoo? | ComputerDumb.com

    [...] only thing people are buzzing about when it comes to Yahoo! these days is how much nobody cares about them anymore. The last big thing they did which caused a huge wave of nostalgia is when they closed Geocities [...]

  • tp

    Efficiency is a GREAT thing when you have a large amount of waste and misuse put in place by previous management teams with misplaced visions.

    Think of it like buying a run-down house. Before you can work on making it a livable space, you need to get all the trash off the floor, replace a few fixtures, and wipe the crap off the walls from the previous tenant.

    That’s exactly what Yahoo is having to do right now. Anyone who sits here and “claims” that the current team isn’t doing anything to create forward progress is an armchair quarterback with zero insight. It doesn’t happen overnight in a company that big…

    This article uses a whole lot of opinion and some market comparisons to try and make it seem like truth. Every company has a *LOT* of room to improve their efficiency, since humans are inevitably lazy. I don’t know about you, but I welcome any company that is making a public effort to become more efficient. We could use a whole lot of that in the world economy just about now.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=709676528 Adam Buchen

    As a former Yahoo employee, I absolutely agree with Arrington here.

    The environment in Sunnyvale is positively toxic and dysfunctional. And the worst part is that management tries to pretend like there’s no problem and that there’s always some magic bullet coming around the corner.

    Are there still those posters pimping Panama hanging all over buildings of the campus? Or did it switch to Apex? What next?

    Sure, I know that there are lots of smart people at Yahoo, but that doesn’t mean that they’re used effectively. There are groups who don’t communicate with each other and therefore the turnaround on anything can take a week or more.

    There’s no cooperation within the organizational structure and the result is employees who are forced to play musical chairs when VPs get into a territorial pissing war about whether Autos should be part of the Entertainment or Lifestyle group or whatever.

    Projects become way too long and get out of control. There have been groups that have spent two years on a single redesign. TWO FUCKING YEARS for a Web site redesign.

    In order to get a hardware procurement, you have to grovel before Filo like peasants. Everyone there SHOULD be on the same team, but at the very highest levels, the unhealthy internal competition is built within the corporate structure.

    But yeah, I guess you could just bury your head in the sand, say anyone who writes the truth is being biased, ignore all the trend-lines and put all your eggs in yet another advertising magic bullet or something.

  • http://invetrics.com/ Dean Stockman

    Yahoo hasn’t declined at all as it is still higher than when the chart starts. Facebook isn’t a threat to Yahoo as they both are used for entirely different purposes… However both are great inspirations for a successful and efficient website!

    Many stock investors could use a similar inspirational website and I have found that inspiration for myself, and hopefully for other traders at http://invetrics.com/

    It is a great website with free stock trading signals that is up more than an incredible 80% for the year! It has already earned me several thousands of dollars and more to come! Make sure you check it out!

  • http://mediajunkie.wordpress.com/ mediajunkie

    your anecdotes ring true but dated

  • Diogenes

    Jim,

    Did you realize that because of Yahoo’s overly aggressive spam filters, users have been losing emails? No, there isn’t a backtrace; your filters simply delete the mail. (Notably, mail is probably pretty important in terms of traffic and ad revenue.)

    Now while the bulk of your users might not care or more likely never notice, this is a sign of Yahoo’s affliction as a company in its end game. You want to cut costs, in this case provide the biggest spam filter possible. Unfortunately, it’s a really crude filter that demonstrates less technological prowess than cost control. It reminds me of fast food outfits adding ammonia to meat (true) to kill bacteria. Yeah, it does the job but isn’t exactly appetizing or healthy.

    What Bartz is doing is positioning the company for a sale to some fool company. That means dressing up the financials by “improving” margins and therefore valuation. I don’t what your position is, but you’ll probably lose your job after the M&A. And I don’t say that with nastiness, I say that because I’ve seen it happen with companies.

  • http://jenniferbecket.wordpress.com/2010/03/02/yahoo-decline/ Yahoo decline « Jenniferbecket’s Blog

    [...] Anyway, did the clicky thing and got the article up and low and behold, there is Yahoo being compared to the one and only Faceache, sorry, Facebook. The article told of how the numbers of US visitors to the Yahoo site were soon to be surpassed by Facebook! Like everything else really I suppose. This is a bit of a short post but essentially what I meant to convey was that Yahoo is on the steady slope down. This kind of shocked me to be honest. But here’s the article if you’re interested http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/27/the-steady-efficient-decline-of-yahoo/. [...]

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=709676528 Adam Buchen

    Admittedly it’s been about a year and a half since I’ve been there, and if they’ve cleaned up the culture since then, good on them.

  • http://112west.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/a-birthday-roast-oh-you-mean-it-wasnt-a-roast/ A Birthday Roast! Oh, You Mean It Wasn’t a Roast? « 112 West

    [...] the making.  And there have been some good changes made under her watch so far. But there are significant challenges ahead, internally and externally.  And it is disconcerting to hear the CEO on TV tout Yahoo’s [...]

  • http://arnoldit.com/wordpress/2010/03/03/quote-to-note-the-foundation-of-yahoo-rotten/ Quote to Note: The Foundation of Yahoo, Rotten : Beyond Search

    [...] to “The Steady, Efficient Decline Of Yahoo.” The article has some useful analysis of Yahoo’s woes. These include silos and unexciting [...]

  • http://dinesh-yadav.co.cc/search-engine-facts-2-march-2010/ Search Engine Facts 2 March 2010 | Dinesh Yadav

    [...] The steady, efficient decline of Yahoo [...]

  • http://connectitconference.com/blog/ready-fire-aim/ Ready, Fire, Aim | Connect IT Conference 2010

    [...] Read the entire article on TechCrunch. [...]

  • http://www.brunotrani.info/blog/2010/03/04/yahoo-ceo-calls-aol-a-%e2%80%9cmini-yahoo%e2%80%9d-defines-patchwork-strategy-for-success/ Yahoo CEO Calls AOL A “Mini Yahoo,” Defines Patchwork Strategy For Success | bruno trani dot info

    [...] touched on the topics we covered in our post last week, The Steady, Efficient Decline Of Yahoo. Specifically, she’s counting on an [...]

  • http://www.dailyelectronic.com/techcrunch/yahoo-ceo-calls-aol-a-%e2%80%9cmini-yahoo%e2%80%9d-defines-patchwork-strategy-for-success/ Yahoo CEO Calls AOL A “Mini Yahoo,” Defines Patchwork Strategy For Success | Daily Electronic

    [...] touched on the topics we covered in our post last week, The Steady, Efficient Decline Of Yahoo. Specifically, she’s counting on an [...]

  • http://agoracom.com AGORACOM – George

    As a content partner of Yahoo, I can tell you that Adam’s story makes sense. I’ve desperately tried to move our partnership forward with great ideas but it literally takes 6 months and 3 levels of decision makers to even get on the table.

    Getting a decision from the Supreme Court is faster.

    Hence, why I have posted for a couple of years now that Yahoo was destined to become irrelevant. I continue to believe so unless something drastic changes.

    Regards,
    George

  • Ilan Ben Menachem

    oh yeh MSN is so different from Yahoo! and AOL… you definitely understood everything here…well done

  • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/nusret1 yuregininsesi

    Excellent post, Michael and spot on so many points. Indeed, the Internet is still in its early days and this type of "Adult Supervision" is great if it's accompanied by leadership with an idea of where things are going and what role they want to play.

    At this point, looking at the current management team, the best case scenario is for the company to be sold off as soon as the house is spruced up a bit. Thinking that this crew is up to a longer term challenge is simple folly.

  • http://getmakemoneyonline.com diana aviz

    after reading this article I would agree of that,all i say that amazing about this news,thanks

  • http://mortgagecalculatorlender.com vicente basquitos

    yes indeed I agree on that, quite favorable, after reading the news,thanks

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