Every time I publish a research paper on immigration or write an article for BusinessWeek or TechCrunch, the xenophobes rush out of their caves to launch mindless attacks. They fill the comment sections with bile, send me nasty emails and sometimes threaten to do me harm. I was convinced that my last BusinessWeek column on the Startup visa presented such a compelling argument that even these poor souls would support it.
After all, this visa is about creating American jobs and moving innovation here which would otherwise happen in other countries. We can boost the economy without any cost to taxpayers. It’s not about admitting H-1B visa holders who sometimes make Americans compete for high-paying jobs, but bringing in entrepreneurs who expand the pie for everyone. Not only do the Democrats support this, but so do the Republicans (their thought leader, Newt Gingrich blogged about my previous TechCrunch post on immigration and his staff told me that he was a supporter of the startup visa). So this seems like a no-brainer.
But, no, logic doesn’t prevail with this crowd. I got the same stream of hate mail that I’m used to, and the xenophobes hijacked the BusinessWeek reader feedback section again. Most of their statements are illogical and uneducated. But there are two potentially meaningful arguments which opponents of the startup visa make, which are worth discussing: that the founders we are bringing in aren’t always the “best and brightest” and that there is already a visa category for geniuses called the O-1 visa.
I know we’re not always bringing in the best and brightest. Most are just average techies. I can offer myself up as an example. When I came to this country in 1980 from Australia, I was just a low-level computer programmer. Yes, I took pride in being able to write the slickest Assembler code (anyone remember what this is?). But I was pretty average in my education and skills. I had no PhD. I had no patents. No one would ever have thought of giving me an O-1 visa. But I came, I worked hard, and I learned. And I developed ideas for how to make better software.
Years later, technology which I invented formed the basis of a software company which employed over 1,000 people and changed the way enterprise client-server systems were built. I don’t know my total value-add to the American economy but I certainly added hundreds of millions of dollars over the life of my two startups. And now I’m giving back to America by contributing my time and energy to 3 great universities, Duke, Harvard and UC-Berkeley.
Now let’s discuss the genius visa. Any immigration attorney will tell you that qualifying for this visa is so hard that even Einstein wouldn’t have cut it. You’ve got to have a perfect academic record, have topped every class you took and have as many as 10 independent authorities say you walk on water. I happened to meet someone at a talk I gave at Berkeley last week, who qualified for this. He has a remarkable story which shows how screwed up our immigration system is.
Alex Kosorukoff learned programming in high school in Russia and started working part-time as a software developer. He later joined Ivanovo State Power University and worked part-time as a researcher in a Russian-American joint venture. He came across several American books on entrepreneurship, read them, and started thinking about becoming an entrepreneur.
Alex persuaded two friends to start a company in 1991. (Let me remind you that this was very, very early in the transition in Russia from Communism to Democracy). They built accounting software which became a big hit. Alex rode the rising tide of entrepreneurship and launched several other companies. In 1995, he won a U.S. Information Agency “Business for Russia” contest. Part of the prize was an exchange program at Syracuse University’s Maxwell School. He came to the U.S. for 2 months, learned more about American business and went back home to solve some of our problems. (Like nearly all foreigners who come here, he fell in love with America and wanted to share the American Dream).
The flower, by runnerfrog (Cristian René)
Alex started researching why organizations struggle to scale well, why decision processes become more inefficient and why talented employees leave. Alex looked around at the natural world and noticed that biological organisms do a better job of scaling up. He designed a form of participatory organization based on evolutionary algorithms and prototyped it with a website that attracted hundreds of participants in 1998-99. His research was discovered by Prof. David Goldberg (University of Illinois), who invited the young Russian to join his lab. Dr. Goldberg’s lab was amongst the top in the field of evolutionary computation.
Alex expected he would have the best of both worlds by coming to America—performing groundbreaking research and becoming an American-style entrepreneur. Once he got to Illinois, however, Alex realized that neither his academic research aspirations nor his entrepreneurial ambitions would be completely fulfilled. The university told Alex that he could not work outside the strict classification of his visa, could perform no side work, and definitely could not launch a company. “They even told me I couldn’t continue to run my website, since it had ad-generated income. I had to move it to Taiwan and have a friend over there run it for me,” Alex explains.
Since the focus of his research was forming companies using evolutionary computation, Alex realized he would not be able to take his theorems and try them out in the real world, as he had done in Russia. “I had to postpone all my entrepreneurial activities and resort to simulation and doing related evolutionary computation research for other professors, but that meant a big switch away from my main area of interest,” says Alex. Still, he managed to win a number of awards for his research.
In fact, Alex’s work did manage to stimulate entrepreneurial activity. Garrett Camp, who founded Stumbleupon, read Alex’s work and used parts of it in conceiving a social sharing company which ultimately sold to EBay for $75 million. If you take Camp at his word, Alex may have been modest in telling me this story. Says Camp, “Alex pioneered the concept of human-based computation. His work on human-based genetic algorithms provided a lot of insight during the design of StumbleUpon, and I referenced several of his papers in my Masters thesis”.
After Alex finished his Ph.D., he got an offer from StumbleUpon (ironically, a company that was founded in Canada in 2001 and later relocated to Silicon Valley). StumbleUpon uses human-based evolutionary computation techniques as does Wikipedia. Alex was clearly grateful for the offer. But it’s pretty easy to tell that he is itching to start his own company, something he’s done successfully several times before in Russia in what might be considered a far harsher business environment. So what’s he doing right now? Waiting for his green card to be approved.
In the meantime, the unemployment rate in California is now over 12%, a near record high. The national rate is at 10%. Credit markets are totally frozen and small businesses—the most dynamic part of the U.S. economy are suffocating for lack of operating capital. So slightly tweaking a law to allow smart foreigners to jumpstart our economy would seem to be a really easy decision politically and economically. Rather than listening to the emotion of misguided anti-immigrants, we need to listen to reason. After all, it is immigrants like Alex who have started 52% of Silicon Valley’s tech companies in recent times.
Editor’s note: Guest writer Vivek Wadhwa is an entrepreneur turned academic. He is a Visiting Scholar at UC-Berkeley, Senior Research Associate at Harvard Law School and Director of Research at the Center for Entrepreneurship and Research Commercialization at Duke University. Follow him on Twitter at @vwadhwa.
Nice story, anywayz.. love SU very much, it’s one of my fav social sites..
Can you write anything without using the xenophobe. You just keep singing the same tune with the same lyrics.
typical ego maniac Indian.. problem is that you can’t trust half of em just see what Arringto is going through with the Crunchpad. They fuck up their country and when it’s unbearable there because everyone is screwing over everyone else they come here… sure not all of them are like that.. but it would help if those that are not would help bring progress to their country rather than fleeing… then keep whining about immigration policies…
Fight bro fight, this is what the world needs
(Hmmm…)
pa⋅thet⋅ic:
causing or evoking pity, sympathetic sadness, sorrow, etc.; pitiful; pitiable: a pathetic letter;
miserably or contemptibly inadequate
Sarah.. wish you’d had to fire 10 high quality honest family man software engineers to be replaced by lying cheating faked CV Indian h1b1.. where after a week you realize that they are full of it. They needed training and simply sucked. They all pulled their CV’s out of their a$$, and in return the honest family men are on food stamps now. I am all for competition but h1b that just bring in tons of liars is wrong. And look around talk to people in that field they tell you that the majority of CVs of h1bs is faked.
So I’d rather miss the 1% of geniuses when I can keep honest people here. Just look at Arrington.. he’s the best example with his Crunchpad. It is engrained in their culture that lying on your CV is just part of the game…
Do we really want people like that…
Hey Vivek:
I would gladly support the Startup Visa if the H-1B visa were discontinued and all 3 million plus of the current H-1B holders were sent home. Until then — I have no interest in another one of your schemes to increase foreign labor in this country.
said the guy that can’t compete….
Well said….
If you xenophobes are bothered about fake cvs, then blame the inadequacy of your interviewing and orientation stuff in your companies that allow this to take place. Blame your ‘american’ boss who fires his employees so he gets other a bit cheaper.. ain’t that greediness? ain’t the world-toppling credit crunch and other ailments in the states because of the idioticism and greediness of ‘the real’ americans??
Reflect on yourself before blaming any specific group dude, and get a life.. Prof’s articles have always been controversial, because its the “reality check” that hurts us most. Empty vessels make more noise…
Such a distraction from the real theme are you idiots..
First off, look at the replies. There are a lot of xenophobes.
Secondly, to everyone else, the “Startup Visa” isn’t the same as the H1 program – it’s not to let additional immigrants into the country to work at big companies.
The proposed startup visa would let people into the country if they secured funding from a VC for an ACTUAL startup that they’re working on. This is basically letting fledgling companies immigrate. None of these visa recipients would be taking an existing job. They would strictly be creating jobs. And VCs would screen them, so this would be hard to defraud.
I think it’s an excellent idea to get the most entrepreneurial of the citizens from the rest of the world. We definitely don’t have enough good entrepreneurs.
we are rightful to be xenophobes. look at how Arrington is treated with his CrunchPad. JooJoo? wtf?
http://news.cnet.com/8301-19882_3-10410960-250.html
Professor, please don’t get discouraged by the racists and bigots who flood these comment sections with hatred. Most Americans are not like this. Most of us read articles but don’t post comments.
I also have some Indian friends who tell me that there are Indians who are very much like our bigots. They feel jealous that others like them have achieved success and have been left behind. I have noticed many comments from these people. This shows that they have caves in India also.
Thank you very much for your writing and speaking up for what is good and right.
Agreed. In my experience, the reflexive racists are a vocal minority, but one that is largely impervious to logical argument.
True. ALIPAC and other groups of aging, predominantly white racists actually organize to accomplish this very thing on comment threads. I would hope most can know about this, as their presence is not a realistic portrayal of anything except testament to the human ability to hold on to yesterday.
It’s very true…there are such xenophobic, bigoted, paranoid, hate-mongers dwelling in caves in India too. They make a lot of noise too especially in Internet forums where their faces cannot be seen. Listening to these people will only take us back to stone age.
Thankfully these people are a very small minority. If their numbers increase it will lead to social unrest, economic degradation, failure of law and order and eventually the collapse of the society.
But thankfully that doesnt happen easily as these people generally degenerate into the backgrounds because of their inability to look forward to the future. All they look at and talk about is the past and keep dreaming about returning to the past.
Yes…such people are all over the world and they dont truly represent any nation they belong to
So you love our country, you just hate the people in it
Isn’t that pretty much how home invasion robbers view our homes?
And we’re supposed to be flatrered?
I love how every 3rd world immigrant spewing anti-american hatred always has the statue of liberty photo at the top of the page
nice
Which part of the post is anti-American? Pointing out parts of the system that aren’t working and suggesting solutions to those certainly is very pro-American.
Australia is a third world country? Either you have no idea where Australia is, or you didn’t read the article past the word “immigrant” and turned on flame mode based purely on the writers name to see where he moved from before moving to America.
And you’re completely missed the point on the reasoning behind the statue (and putting photos of it in a post), it’s there to welcome immigrants, visitors and returning Americans to America. Yet visa policies these days don’t achieve the goals that were held when that statue was put in place and a (very, very) vocal minority seem to be dead set against holding up the beliefs behind that statue.
It’s not anti-American to allow immigrants and want to foster the best inside your country. That’s very pro-American, fuck other countries we want the brightest making our country far richer.
Another fear-filled US citizen who sees the slightest criticism about our country as anathema. Fact is we’re a country of tons of racists, under-educated ignorant folk and fear mongers, and one guy who’s contributed as much to the economy is this author has, deserves the right to make any observation he wants. Undoubtedly he’s contributed more than some fool who screams “anti-American” when he doesn’t like what something that someone says.
would you have preferred if it was a 1st world blonde immigrant named bergstrom?
I would prefer a blonde named Pamela Anderson Junior
Shaba, you are an asscrack.
nice observation bro! I love the Statue of Liberty – One gets such a nice view from top of there
Please forgive Tom. We must be aware that some people are born with limited brain function and it is beyond their misfortune to attribute blame or ridicule. They have no say in their behavior..
I love how every fearful, ignorant dreg of society pretends to use logic to further their infection upon the social body.
nice.
Stop embarrassing America with your uneducated comments.
+1
+2
+3
+4
These fake claims of racism by the uneducated rubes is very sad. Oh well.
Some history: America belonged to indians in the first place (red indians) and the guys who calls them selves as Americans are the real immigrants who came from Europe. I ask them to go back to Europe and let indians live in America.
The point here is that America is a country of immigrants with the opportunities for the deserved. So let there be competition and the “Strongest will Survive” (Charles Darwin)
Indians on message boards have jekyll-hyde personalities
always starting out, telling us how their presence here is going to ’save us’, be ‘more competative’ and make life ‘better for us’
but if you know your facts, and confront every lie they tell with evidence, eventually they conceed that thay are actually harming us, and instead go into ‘accuser mode’, listing every sin (real or imagined) that every americna ancestor (even if it wasnt yours) supposedly ever committed, to justify the harm they just conceeded
which makes me wonder – are they here to help us, or give us the harm ‘we deserve’? Or are they helping us by delivering deserved harm, thereby ‘cleansing us’
Or are they here just to help themselves to everything that isnt nailed down, exploiting the corruption we already suffer, with their corruption skills (that is actually one skill American workers dont have)
And why is it their busy conscience seems to ignore their caste system, which their families have DEFINITELY participated in?
youre such an idiot
Okay Tom, out with it. Let’s talk about what *really* caused you to get irked by Indians. You were having some PBR talking to the bartender when a fairly attractive woman caught your eye. To your surprise, a mediocre looking Indian won her over with his Indian styled self-deprecating humor… got her number and who knows, maybe a bit more. Since then, you’ve found out why Indians are really here – they have a fetish for attractive white women. The sly bastards also have a funny accent they can make fun of to get women to laugh. You on the other hand, you just have an associates degree in communications from your community college, a collection of guns and confederate flags, and possibly a mullet. Although other people are willing, you cannot bring yourself to make fun of these prizes. So, you hate Indians. I love America.
Hey, if you were in Germany in the 1930s I wonder which political party would have piqued your interest Tommy boy?
Good point. There’s less ignorance now than then, but it seems we have some way to go.
Aha a Godwin moment has been reached. The universal comparison to the Nazis
Godwin’s law invoked
you lose
Indians SOLD their land for shiny things.
Enough said.
Well, actually India was a colony under the British East India Company and later the British Crown. A British colony just like America was.
Only some land – like Manhattan. Not all land. In fact, not most land.
True, but same goes for India.
Yes, the USA is a country of immigrants, not a country of illegal immigrants. The USA has immigration laws just like all other civilized countries have, but the difference is that we do not enforce them. Uneducated fools like the imbecile who wrote this extreme leftists rant do not understand that mexico and the many of of the other countries that the illegal aliens coming to this this country originate from have very strict enforcement of their immigration laws, yet the idiots on the left expect us to completely ignore our immigration laws no matter what damage is done to this country.
The big lie…” they come here to make a better life”…That is a crock, if you were going to a country to make a better life, you would not make your first action an illegal action by breaking the law by illegally entering the country.
Fools like the author of this article are brainwashed to accept the extreme leftist agenda, pay no attention to these dangerous people, they do not have our countries best interest at heart…battle them with the truth, because if they succeed with their plan, we loose and become a controlled third world nation.
Do you even know what the immigration system is actually like? Going through it legally (as I have) is one of the most time sucking expensive endeavors that I can understand why someone would do it illegally. Is it right, absolutely not.
The immigration process is meant to expand the academic and economic success of the US. Currently the immigration process is inhibitory to that and I applaud Vivek for bringing this conversation to the surface.
“Uneducated fools like the imbecile who wrote this extreme leftists rant do not understand that mexico and the many of of the other countries that the illegal aliens coming to this this country originate from have very strict enforcement of their immigration laws”
http://theunapologeticmexican.org/elmachete/2009/11/05/mexico-she-welcomes-the-opportunity/
“Uneducated fools”?
‘Nuff said.
Social Darwinism? That’s been out for decades.
What do you think the trillion dollar bail-out, done under the (we’re so capitalist) Bush administration was all about?
And BTW, if that didn’t happen, unemployment would be 50% or higher in the U.S.,and US currency would be more valuable as toilet paper.
It wasn’t Social Darwinism. Coorporations don’t practice Social Darwinism, neither does your local mob boss. All are organizations, dedicated to using their size and scale to crush the competition.
So is TATA, the Indian gov, the U.S. gov…
Right now, U.S. citizens at minimum wage, pays more in taxes that Indian workers earn. No one in the United States can compete with that.
You can at best complement that for a while.
The only way to compete with that is to default, and ruin your currency, something the U.S. is quickly doing.
Don’t give anyone that Social Darwinism crap, pure BS. We live in republic that respects life and liberty, we aren’t a bunch of Spartans, or their slaves, living under king (deified dictator).
If you want to Dine in hell, well that’s your problem.
love stumbleupon. yest another canadian company moving to america. interesting how to become successful one always has to move to the states. it’s funny this american dream. i wonder if people have realized that it’s not just an american dream, but a world dream instead.
i read vivek’s last businessweek post and the comments before it got hijacked but what he’s saying is true because i’ve seen it many times over on this website and elsewhere. the other disguting thing i can remember was a post on this website for a school in kuwait or the uae and instead of talking about the school or the programs offered, the technology/labs, people hijacked the entire thing and commented instead on religion, saudi people, human rights reputation, the rulers, and said some very very racist things. i can still remember it because the comments had nothing to do with the original post except to add some noise value. why do so many people go around shouting their agendas?
To the boy who cried Xenophobe.
Every country has an immigration policy, it isn’t “Xenophobic” to have an immigration policy, it’s part of good government.
We need people who respect the constitution, one tenant of same is the requirement to hire fairly, without discrimination.
A long-term vetting process helps to ensure that those who receive U.S. citizenship are comfortable with U.S. law and can abide by the civil rights laws of this country.
Short-term visas, designed to On-the-job train guest workers, who then remove hundreds of thousands of jobs from U.S. is an anathema to the U.S. citizenship process.
It is the case that agencies, companies, and hiring managers seek to hire H-1b only workers, openly practicing bigotry and discrimination against U.S. citizens. They do this because the H-1b visa is effective indentureship (slavery) and slavery is against the U.S. constitution.
We need an immigration policy that works, one that ensures that those who immigrate to the U.S. want to be here and are comfortable with our civil rights laws, and are not comfortable with using our laws (even poorly designed laws, such as the H-1b visa) to enslave others.
“Every country has an immigration policy, it isn’t “Xenophobic” to have an immigration policy, it’s part of good government.”
Certainly not. But any person scanning this page—and many others online—will immediately see the abundance of racists and ignorant angry trolls using immigration as a cover for their hostility and xenophobia.
And I say anyone who denies this is part of that crowd or at least part of the problem. More than half the time, there is no substantial discussion of immigration, economy, or the US international behaviors that do so much to actually jack up the levels of immigration across her own borders. There is only noise from a faction that fears it is part of a fading trend, a dying culture, or just stone cold racism.
“And I say anyone who denies this is part of that crowd or at least part of the problem.”
You sound like a neo-Nazi? Believe me, Nazism can come in any color.
You are obviously a violent person, if instead of knee-jerk reacting to the comments of others, you would make an attempt to understand. I think you be far more persuasive.
Professor, thanks for having the courage to take these people on. I am sure they are a small band of bandits who try to dominate the conversation. They don’t represent America. Keep up the fight and thank you for caring so much for this country!!
Sharon Gold, I agree, they are cave men…
Sharon Gold, we love this man too,
You’d garner more respect for your cause if you didn’t start off the article by calling people names.
I agree. It’s an honest debate and Vivek labels anyone who disagrees with him “ignorant” and uses references to bile and going back to caves, etc. Saying Gingrich is the thought leader of the Republicans is like saying Al Franken is the thought leader of the Democrats. And it’s clearly designed as a jab.
So Vivek, as someone who agrees with you..do yourself a favor. Drop the childish and immature rhetoric and argue facts and stop the silly name calling. It doesn’t suit you.
“You’d garner more respect for your cause if you didn’t start off the article by calling people names”
It’s Indian culture – Indians will never ever back down, when confronted with evidence that their position is in the wrong – they first repeat the same (already rebutted) statements, then get angry and resort to name calling/
In American culture, people usually cut their losses, go silent and hope the issue passes without too much damage. Name calling in American culture is considered an admission that your position is groundless and that you have no character
The funny thing is, it’s always the Americans who get called ‘biggoted’, but anyone who reads this stuff a lot knows that’s not true – it’;s just that it’s the Indians who are doing all the name-calling
and I’m glad he wrote this article
Vivek Wadhwa took off the mask, and showed himself for the anti-American racist indian supremacist that he really is
The leading edge of a 5th column for India
Dictionary: fifth column (kŏl’əm-nĭz’əm) n.
n.
A clandestine subversive organization working within a country to further an invading enemy’s military and political aims.
i hope you really value your assertations because they are complete garbage. if vivek is what you accuse him of then you are the next jesus christ. fuck off you lowlife.
That must be the other USA, the one without Palin, Dobbs, Beck, FNC and those people that always walk away – the teabaggers.
I agree, the pro-outsourcing radical right wing is a disgrace to this country. If I hear one more teabagger blabbing about how much they love outsourcing and uncontrolled greed I may vomit. *pukes*. oops turned on FOX news accidentally.
Oh the other hand, people who thrive on prejudice and racism does not deserve polite replies.
Have you read the crap that people like you post here and on Businessweek? Someone needs to call these idiots out and show them for what they are. The professor’s got style and courage.
give me a break. like you’re so offended. have you seen how some of his posts are completely hijaked by ignoramous imbeciles? seriously. i can’t believe this is how actual real people, adults conduct themselves online. it’s very childish. yeah he could refrain from calling them ignorant and maybe he doesn’t need to break this into an us and them case, but his overall point is always the same and it’s always the truth. this isn’t really about you or me, immigrant or native born or whatever. this is about us all. we need jobs. even in our developed country (not america) who didn’t fuck up like the americans and brits did the economy, we need jobs. so many people are suffering over some pointless nationalistic pride or whatever reasoning there is surrounding not only the american immigration system, but also european, other north&south american immigration systems. because yeah the immigrants are coming to fuck up youor country and steal every penny you have as well as the babies. they’re oh so evil. give me a break. there’s a bunch of crap that people personal uphold and i am so completely tired of it. i’ve come to expect that everytime i read one of vivek’s post, the comments won’t be left to only discuss what is pertinent to the article but expectedly veers off into some of the most irrelevant commentary i will come across online. it’s worse than youtube comments section and worse than the comments section on gossip sites. it’s so vitriolic that it’s completely mindboggling. i mean yeah there are bad people from all races/countries, but that doesn’t mean american’s are the holiest of the whole.
He has to call names because he is an ignorant hater…He is doing what he is TOLD to do, spread the big lie.
CITIZENS are out of work and this a-hole wants to flood the country with more immigrants when the best course of action would be a moratorium on immigration…99% of immigrants coming here are taking jobs from the middle class, they are not creating jobs.
Don’t listen to liars like this USA hating fool, we are on the brink, it is time to wake up..
And BTW, I am a 4th generation Mexican American, so you can stuff your xenophobe crap.
Poopy needs to retreat back to his cave right away
lets out the xenos
Shut up twit, you are the hater, the USA hater….you frigging a-hole.
Prof. it’s great to see someone speaking for the silent majority. Americans are not like the wierdo’s who fill these comment sections with their garbage. I’ve read many of your BusinessWeek articles also and I cringe at the nasty comments. These are probably a few unemployed computer programmers who have skills which are no longer in demand. So they have nothing better to do than to attack.
As Sharon says above, thank for caring so much about this great country. It is because of immigrants like you and Alex that we enjoy our quality and way of life/
Silent majority? who are you talking about? The weirdo’s on this site are some of the greatest technologists, business entrepreneurs in the world. What are you doing on this site?
“Thanks for caring so much……..” ?? Your killing me but thanks for the comedy.
US enjoys the quality of life for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with Alex and Vivek.
of course. immigrants have done nothing for america. vive l’amerique.
I love Dave, you are the man…a man who has a problem
Smile Buddy, why get so loud, relax. I’ve just been to florida, such a nice place. You must go there! The beaches and the lovely weather, you don’t get time to be angry or loud.
Thank you for the professional free zen and feng shui peace advice while you were at S Beach no doubt- WOW, I feel harmony with the world now!
Have to go now to my meditation and yoga classed
Peace out PJ
I don’t think I even really disagree with you, but for every example like you gave, there are probably an equal number of poorly qualified H1-B who don’t do anything but take up space. I’ve had the misfortune of working with some of these dunderheads and it wasn’t pleasant. The employer just wanted cheap labor and the immigrants are easy targets.
Of course, I’m a believer in free markets and the employer is usually getting what they pay for. Crap.
Most of the great developers I know aren’t concerned about immigrants. They know there is still a huge demand for great programmers so they have nothing to fear. My experience has been the ones that fear immigrants are the ones who are mediocre, or worse. If immigrants displace them, then it’s a double-win in my book.
This is not about a Visa to hire programmers. The H1-B does a “good” job for that.
The Startup Visa is meant to allow entrepreneurs to start companies. There is no downside here. The immigrant on a startup visa should not be allowed to work for a company he/she does not have at least a 5% ownership stake in.
And if they fail, will we send them home?
…if they have resources to start again, why send them away? At least some of the visas require a private insurance and proof of sufficient funds to ensure that the visa holder is in no way a burden to the society. I fail to see why the failure would be a problem for anyone except for the entrepreneur himself.
The whole spirit of entrepreneurship is about failing and learning from them, so you succeed in the future. Sending them home goes against the very spirit of entrepreneurship. If they don’t have money / don’t add value, they’ll leave themselves.
I think the large majority of Americans would love to see these entrepreneurs do well and succeed — in their own countries. Everyone thinks they must come to America to “make it.” Consequently, these enterprising individuals leave their own people behind.
Develop new companies in your country and raise your own standard of living. The entire world can benefit from improved conditions for the countries in which these entrepreneurs already reside.
Many countries do not have either the capital or the business culture of risk capital. Also, the valley has talent and experience that you cannot find anywhere else. We’re not talking about opening up a pizza shop here.
When they do well and succeed in their own companies, you get to outsource to them. Better here and there!
i wish this was the case. as we embrace globalization (at the detriment to maybe more american jobs) more people are realizing that they don’t need to move to america or euorpe to make it. yeah the education and government where you are sucks more than ass, but the world is changing. it’s not all about coming to the land of the free and the american dream. you can make it too from wherever you are. i will love the day that the dollar sinks and the day when a new international currency is embraced and widely used. the world is not all about america. it’s so sad that people don’t see this. our financial system doesn’t need to be so intertwined with america so that if america goes, then we all go down along with it. i wish that ever immigrant who has ever done anything for america would go back to where their roots are and maybe do something there instead, but then the world wouldn’t be as we know it, and who’s to say that america (the country) doesn’t play an integral part in people’s dreams of achiving something more. maybe the world would lose out on all the great things immigrants have contributed to america, and thereby the world. i don’t want to world to change that much but i just wish that things were different. i don’t hate people of other ethnicities, but i wish sometimes we all could prove ourselves so that americans can see that there are things outside of the us. the world doesn’t exist in one place. singular thinking doesn’t prevail in this world. it’s multi-dynamic. and who gave american’s the right to stick up their nose and look down on others? where does this self righteousness come from? i mean i thought that hauteur was reserved for the french
.
I think most of Americans are turning dumb, lacking the intellect, will and patience for any kind of healthy debate. So what comes out is just another flame comment and just like young 15 years old “immature” kids they assume that their bad negative words will make their point strong! I think you should simply ignore most of their comments as hardly even 20% of them would be graduates. They are simply not educated upto the level most Asians are.
C’mmon, almost everyone knows and agrees that America benefitted a lot (and is benefitting) because of skilled immigration. Americans have forgot that they themselves were immigrants and also that people are just not moving to America, but elsewhere too, apart from starting companies in their own countries. They just cannot realize that innovation does not and should not know any political or geographical boundaries. Ha, most Americans cant even locate India or Singapore on a map! Compare the GDP growth of China and India Vs US, and you will get all your answers. I bet 90% of these Americans and so called “pseudo-educated class” dont even know what GDP means, and why US GDP is almost stagnant when compared to China and India.
alas, all they can do is mindless rant! I think you as an intellectual are way ahead of them, and you should not care about such pseudo-educated immature people. An empty vessel makes the most noise!
Just think about what you are saying here..
“Most Americans are dumb”
…
“I want to move to America and start a business there”
If your goal in life is to profit from these “dumb” people, I am sure you will be disappointed in finding that Americans are as smart as people anywhere else.
If not, why the hell are you commenting on an article that is about moving to America?
Insulting Americans is not a great strategy to espouse liberal immigration. I say that as an immigrant in America.
There are stupid people everywhere, stop generalizing.
What I meant is more on the lines that Americans today are “getting dumber” because most of them dont realize that criticizing blindly like this about immigration or any other issues wont help. Instead of being shallow, they need to constantly improve themselves. Being a developed nation, and given the comfort level here in US, most of them think there is simply no need to improvise, or get education (college education specially). They dont feel the need to think deeply, and this will eventually harm them in more ways than one. Asians on the other hand are constantly improvising, and slowly a reverse brain drain will start…
As an immigrant it might be hard for you to understand all this, but as Canadian living in US and working with Indians/Chinese, I can easily see how Americans are slowly going “down the drain”… and this is a generalized statement, if you dont see it, just check the number of US students graduating from College…(pls dont talk bs stuff like college education isnt neccessary and if bill gates could do it why not all of us..blah blah..)
All I can see is that education makes you more smart and balanced person, literacy is merely a weapon, which can be used foolishly for useless ranting like most Americans these days seem to be doing..
“used foolishly for useless ranting like most Americans these days seem to be doing..”
Yep, you’re a Canadian alright. Self righteous and rude. It amazes me you have survived so long amongst the barbarians.
Canada huh? Canada allows anyone to get citizenship with depositing $250,000 and opening a biz. The Chinese do this buy opening store the size of postage stamp, fill it with boxes and say they are providing biz all the while never opening their doors. Then they grandfather in the rest of their families. Now you have the Chinese Triad – good luck with that!
“foolishly ranting like most Americans these days seem to be doing”???
Why do you even bother commenting when Americans are just so dumb!
India’s per capita GDP is $1,000 versus US $47,000- hmmm- I guess India needs to keep growing a little when your 142nd in the world with 80% of the population living on $2 per day.
As for Ranting online- US born sites are just dumb Americans ranting on-
I guess Facebook, Myspace, Hi5, Bebo are all just dumb Americans ranting
Digg? Hmm- more dumb Americans ranting
Finally, Techcrunch – US born and just more dumb global citizens like yourself ranting
And you are a deep thinker from Canada and living in US?
“India’s per capita GDP is $1,000 versus US $47,000- ……”
Another sign of your petty ignorance….I was talking about GDP growth rate and the per capita GDP…learn to atleast check your facts before writing (ranting)..I think people like you will never learn..bunch of 15year olds…
“India’s per capita GDP is $1,000 versus US $47,000- ……”
Another sign of your petty ignorance….I was talking about GDP growth rate and NOT the per capita GDP…learn to atleast check your facts before writing (ranting)..I think people like you will never learn..bunch of 15year olds…
Let me get this straight- according to you per capita GDP does not have anything to do with GDP growth?
So basic economics tells us that if you have 6.1% GDP growth but have inflation rate of 7.8% you have a net growth of – 1.7% and this does not compute the deficit of 10.3% of GDP compounding the situation dumb-ass. (Note: 10.3% deficit is amongst the highest in the world)
I will give you that India’s PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) is $2,780
Are you kidding me TC? You deleted my last two posts with stats reflecting GDP, PPP versus actual negative growth for India?
Wow!
Try this one more time just for Brian- I have no idea how you deleted my prior two posts.
Here is very simple stats
India GDP growth 6.7% save for Inflation 7.8%= Negative or Minus 1.1% Growth
India’s deficit is the highest in the world, 10.3%
GDP dropped .7% from 2008-2009
Dumb-Ass
i read your first comment and i could tell that you’re pretty pissed off, you’re probably an immigrant (canadian eh) living or working in the us, and that i agree with most of what you said. yesterday on the national they had the usual panel and mansbridge asks, what do you think about the play these two stories, the white house gate crashers, and tiger woods, have had this past week, and peter himself made a great observation that we are all waiting for the singular moment to cash in. something about how celebrity has erroded our values and how we are all one gate crash from becoming the next big thing. but the bigger question is if this is the way we see the future of the world. there are so many important things going on and you would think that with all the advancements people of my generation or younger would want to do something with it all or even dream bigger…but it’s not happening. talk to any kid today and you will get a reality check on what’s really going on in society and in our education/institutional systems. my heart plummeted when i heard that kids nowadays don’t want to be engineers, entreprenuers, scientists, authors, etc…kids today want to become the next big thing. the next talking point. celebrity. even if you think it’s contrained to developed countries, it’s visible in the third world also. so much vanity is respected worldwide. things today are messed up and maybe years ago i used to think things would be different in the future, but now that i’m here in 2009, i’ve noticed that people haven’t changed. we’re still the same vacuous people we always were, but maybe with technological advances we can’t hide it anymore. it’s just all so depressing.
It is true that there are stupid and ignorant people everywhere. In fact, in most underdeveloped countries struggle with overt ethnic strive and racism. But America is suppose to be better than that; we are suppose to be a world leader.
but that’s where the joke is. it’s a completely duplicitous mirage and that’s what the american dream is about. i mean the american education system is such a unfortunate joke. you would think you guys would do better for the future of your country. for the kids. okay you have the best graduate/post graduate schools around but the other funny thing is that while america regresses, the rest of the world is catching up. people used to say the post american world and we wouldn’t believe it, well i didn’t, but it’s happening and i can’t be any happier. yeah china being the world’s number one can be a bad thing, but nothing can be worst than america or the british. infact nothing can be worst than the past we lived. the time now is for the future. i’m not saying america needs to let in all people, but there’s so much fuckery with it’s immigration system that some things like what vivek is advocating can be done to help us all, not just america.
Don’t be so angry about THE Americans, Brian. There are bad and there are good, that’s how it is everywhere. So just don’t label Everyone – its befitting for the bad, but insulting for the good.
Whatever , you r a mediocre dunderhead
Yeah, that really hurts. lol. Judging by your comments, I’m guessing that hit a bit close to him. Sorry, but that is just my experience.
If you had the intellectual capacity to actually read my comment, you would have noticed I’m in agreement with Vivek. Clearly, you are one of the type of H1-Bs I’ve worked with: Largely clueless who couldn’t code- their way out of a VB 6.0 in 21 Days book.
But to be fair, I’ve also worked with a handful of H1-Bs who were brilliant and far better than most American programmers.
But it looks like you aren’t one of them….
@Whatever, sorry i didn’t read everything you wrote, we are on the same side today…. i was born and bred here, but now i live in a cave and can’t read very well
nobody cares
Yo Bro, you use some tough words. Way to go!
Nice article, Vivek.
BTW, don’t let xenophobes to bog down your spirits.
The issue is even more serious. Huge tech hubs emerge is Asia. China et al. is not only cheap toys and appliances. In few years the US only advantage would be the entrepreneurship spirit.
World is full of different voices, some good, some bad.
My Daddy who hails from the great state of Texas used to tell me (Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one)
…. and most stink….
How do you know Chris, have you been going around smelling MOST
Just kidding, don’t get angry like most of the people here.
I have to laugh. Actually people are idiots. Nevermind we are all immigrants to this country. But we have actually harmed our technology lead by NOT letting people in on H-1B visas. Where do those smart people go if they can’t come here? Well they don’t always go to some other country and they certainly don’t get dumb because they didn’t get let into this party.
What happens? They start companies overseas that start to compete in very real ways with US companies and technology. Technology that might have otherwise been developed or created in the US gets done offshore. There is a reason why VC’s are starting offices overseas now. It’s because we have managed to drive enough smart people out of this country that now there are the beginnings of thriving valley like areas in places other than the valley.
So those folks in “stupid area of the country” (not to pick on any one old technology state) use their ignorance to push their equally stupid politicians to agree with them. This had zero impact on their state to NOT allow these visa’s, conversely had they allowed them there would have been zero impact on their unemployment. Those states have issues that this issue just isn’t going to impact.
Meantime, however, their actions have managed to push talented people overseas who have the drive and smarts, to start companies that then compete with the US for those very jobs that the idiot states are trying to save.
Bush 1, did a really dumb thing in taking the car companies to Japan with him. I understand why he did that since he wanted to get voted in a second term, but basically his trip did NOTHING to stave off what has happened to that business and those jobs. Meanwhile we are seeing the signs of the next auto worker crapout in the tech sector because some idiots are concerned somehow that tech people are going to take tech jobs away from autoworkers… NOTE I am not calling autoworkers stupid or otherwise unable to jump into technology. But here’s the thing. You can physically only have so many auto companies, or boat companies, etc… The number of potential tech companies is not limited by the same factors that limit auto production and sales. So letting H-1B visas into the country just increases the potential pool of jobs, not decreases them.
You wanna fix the current valley problem of unemployment? Get the capital rolling again. Having just spent nearly a year working at buying a company that has good cashflow a nice product/service, and NOT finding any bank willing to loan money to a company making money, I can tell you that’s the issue. No capital means NO jobs. End of story. No business can create jobs without cash flowing through it’s veins. It has NOTHING to do with H-1B visas.
Our politicians in DC were supposed to be elected so that they represented the best interests of their people, not to be as stupid as their people.
Wake up and Smell the Coffee….
tl;dr
Except that is NOT what happens. Take the case of a large Chinese network company that now competes with Cisco. This company stole intellectual property from Cisco via a corrupt Indian software engineer. This code formed the basis for a company, funded by the communist government, that is now quite large and succesful. This is not a case of innovation but, rather, Industrial Espionage.
The problem US companies have to worry about (and by extension US workers) is not a hyper-innovative third would. We have to worry about unfair competition from places like India and China. Dear Professor, would you kindly address that in your next “research” paper?
This company stole intellectual property from Cisco via a corrupt Indian software engineer. This code formed the basis for a company, funded by the communist government, that is now quite large and succesfull.
>>>> Roll back 300 years. Westerners came to east, killed, murdered butchered every thing to make sure that industrial back bone in the east is broken and factories in west can prosper. Front end was lead by military and back end was lead by business man. And now progeny of them is claiming that easterners are stealing from west?
And also how come one stealing case can make another company so big and successful. Please find out whether that indian guy is still helping chineese communists. ‘Coz you never know you might endup helping US economy a lot dude.
So 500 bazillion years ago when no one currently alive something happened is somehow related to current immigration policy?
pleeeeeze!
Highlights:
1. Bazillion
2. pleeeeeze
This is an awful, intellectually-weak comparison. Most people are certainly more enlightened today and I certainly hope that people hold society to a higher standard than we did 300 years ago.
Really? So since 1 one software engineer was corrupt, your calling it Industrial Espionage. Shit like that happens everywhere, and by people of all races. So please, don’t generalize one example to think of some fancy “Industrial Espionage” scheme going on.
I agree – Shit Happens!
That’s whats been happening on this comment section.
We at Huawei didn’t steal anything that wasn’t already ours. Don’t blame us, join us.
Yours a cool comment buddy. I join you!
Thank you for your post, I’m a foreign student in USA myself and I have lived the strict immigration policy.
On the other hand entrepreneurs are all about hacking he system and I can tell you, if you want to come to the us to start your company it’s possible. Just find your ticket.
Like most people I know, being admitted on top school was mine. You won’t be able to work under salary during your student visa (j1,f1) but in the meant time you can build what matter most for me: product and team.
Incorporation and all that are important on the long run but on an early non-revenue stage I believe it’s not.
In addition if there is a citizen among your founders be can do all the paperwork while you get the right visa.
“Like most people I know, being admitted on top school was mine.”
Yeah.
O hell yeah!
I was admitted into a Top 20 school and paid for my education.
My parents dropped $250k-$300k on education/expenses etc in my four years in college.
The difference I saw is that a lot of H1-B and poor indians/chinese people coming to work/study are completely desperate to stay.
They don’t have any work ethics, anything. Their GOAL is to stay in the US. They’re desperate!
Mine on the other hand is to be successful wherever: Europe, US, Asia. Don’t care. I’m not desperate and that’s why I don’t piss off people. I act normal because I am normal.
Bravo
You can show off your parents wealth and the opportunities they have opened up for you.
Anyone can take a positive and keep it a positive, however taking a negative and turning it into a positive is a whole different ball game.
As an entrepreneur I believe that the hunger in our bellies keeps us going, our do or die attitude makes us persevere.
We make mistakes, we learn, we grow. We create opportunities for ourselves and for the ones who work with us.
That is more important that what economical backgrounds we come from.
May want to keep that in mind when you are evaluating the ROI on that 300K education you got. Based on your email so far, it seems like the investment is not paying off too well.
“My parents dropped $250k-$300k on education/expenses etc in my four years in college…….Mine on the other hand is to be successful wherever: Europe, US, Asia. Don’t care. I’m not desperate and that’s why I don’t piss off people. I act normal because I am normal.”
If I had $250-300K, I would rate myself successful
ultimately i’m also going to be attending a school abroad. it’s not because i want to contribute my potential to another country, but more like once i get an education here, i can’t build a successful career in an industry that i want, so therefore the only other alternative is to go to america. applying to american schools is such a hassle. yeah it pays off in the end (maybe not the costs) but i hate how the presumption is that because i am a freigner i can’t speak english. i mean seriously. when i explain on the application forms that english is my native language, i have to check the other option and write my explanation, because most times they haven’t provided an option to say that yes i am a foreginer but yet i speak perfect english/english is my native language. this is the least of the problems students come across when applying to an american school.
my brother went to an american school on scholarship to play soccer because we don’t have good soccer programs here, and to play for the national team on a fulltime basis as well as get scouted by big teams you obviously can’t play soccer here, you either have to go to the states or go to europe. worst mistake he made was not going to europe instead and going to school in the states…but i guess the good thing is that he lived.
there’s so many things that are setup for students to fail, but we can all get where we want. the world is without borders. technology is helping to erase boundaries. yes people might be slower to change, but we’re human. we all change one way or another. something better will happen to the us immigration system despite the lobbying and the venting of frustrated americans. it’s okay. america is a land of immigrants. face the reality. i mean you guys don’t want to become like england, france, italy, or even australia now.
the next goal for immigrants is to penetrate japan, korea, china, and some south american countries that put on the pretense of allowing immigrants, but in actuality don’t want foreigners tainting their blood lineage.
It’s amazing how many people take the time to bash foreigners and the fact that they take up space/jobs here in america.
If it’s such an issue do as they do and get up, quit complaining, and fight for those jobs. If “that damn foreigner” stole your job maybe it was because while you were siting around complaining about them they were out working
.
Touche.
apparently chinese people are some of the most harworking people this world has ever seen. something about rice fields. they’re not the only ones. american’s are hard workers. yes. but then there are just some of them who are so stuck in a time period and have a sense of entitlement it’s hilarious to observe. it happens in a lot of countries. for every american ignoramous there is in the world there’s another *insert country* person abroad. it happens. your immigration system is messed up. fix it and do yourselves and us all a fvour.
Chris, you made a pretty true statement, the one I would say summarizes a lot of stuff happening on this comments section -
“If it’s such an issue do as they do and get up, quit complaining, and fight for those jobs. If “that damn foreigner” stole your job maybe it was because while you were siting around complaining about them they were out working”
Cheers to you bro! Hope you are working hard. Best of luck
Keep fighting the good fight, professor.
Hail Professor Leonidas
Why do the xenophobes attack? Its because laws like the H1-b are notoriously abused with loopholes. They see your plan as something ripe and ready for exploitation by a major corporation looking to save cost. H1-b’s were originally setup for something “good” and now they are used just to bring in inferior workers at lower costs.
If your so good why not start up your company in your own country first and then look into coming to the USA.
I agree with the first part. It is the abuse of the system that encourages the xenophobes to get all the more vociferous.
But the problem with the set-up is you really can’t make out who should make the cut and who should not based on just the marks they score or the tests they pass or any other . The worth of an immigrant can only be made retrospectively, and that is why no amount of laws can actually be effective to the extent the Americans or the immigrants would want.
“If your so good why not start up your company in your own country first and then look into coming to the USA.”
He is so good, he came to the country and started two successful companies without a startup visa.
How is a major corporation going to exploit a visa for “Entrepreneurs”..who, by definition, cannot work for a corporation?
The Startup VISA would be a ridiculous immigration loophole. There would be 10000 fake business “startups” for every true business ideal. What would be the minimum captial requirements. What if the founders “close shop” in 2 months and the founder decides to stay and get a dishwasher job. I am not totally not against your ideal , because I could make millions bringing people over this way, but I feel sorry for america it happened.
+1
18% of all H1-B Visa applications are fraudulent already. You don’t move forward until you fixed the existing problem.
I love when somebody supports their argument with some stats – made up or not
I know US census data sucks along with stats from business insider stating 20%, ICE and US AG states is 20% along with Senate hearing of 19%- I was trying to be nice- fuck off and just simply google if you can
“If your so good why not start up your company in your own country first and then look into coming to the USA.”
Because no place besides the US has the resources and the network of people available, like the one in Silicon Valley. And really why do you have an issue if they start a company in the US? Their creating jobs AND helping the US economy. Sounds like a WIN WIN to me.
Whatever gives you a chance to abuse the system sounds right to Indians. No other place has the resources, so you be the pioneer in your country and create it. Take on the system if you are so good and be the change you want to see. But no, you would rather take on the system exploiting the loopholes in the US than in your country.
Have no issues with genuine start ups but abuse of the system as you guys did with the H1b would not only be an issue, next time a lot of you may have to pay for it in a way you never imagined.
H1B was abused. Human Rights activists – Did you hear the word ABUSE
Chris, first of all, I’m part of the US, I’ve been for the last 4 years. Why do you care if I want to do something in the US? I pay taxes, buy stuff made here etc etc. In every form, I contribute to the economy. Whats so wrong about that?
Canada (Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal) might have the resources you need… forget the states come here!
canada tries but they can hardley keep their own. why do you think so many canadians are abroad, and why is it that you can find most of them in california?
Any PhD or professor who discourages open debate has no credibility. Wadhwa is clearly frustrated that informed Americans are countering his propagana message with legitimate comments. His only response is to scream xenophobia. Why don’t you try countering facts with facts professor, instead of character assasination? The fact is, foreign guest workers and founders have not created the millions of jobs they promised to in 1998. All we have done is lost billions in capital and send a million jobs overseas. This is why the U.S. economy is a wreck. If you don’t like open debate, then get out of America. We don’t silence free speech here. Anyone who tries to is the real cave dweller.
It happens everywhere..In Australia people are attacking Indian students…in Mumbai “outsiders” are threatened even when they are from India!
In UK, people show racism..which you can see on day to day life..
If it happens in US..what’s the big deal? this is a “basic human nature” i guess which forces people to feel threatened from the outsiders..irrespective of who they are from where ever they are..
Let’s talk about H1 visas..if outsiders are getting H1 visas and they are coming to US..see how they ADD to the economy..
1)They travels to US and within US generates Air traffic ADDING to the Air lines
Whatever they earn 30% goes to the Social Security and Taxes etc which is not going to get returned to him in any ways ADDING to the Fed Cash
2) They rent and later buy apartments/condos/home ADDING to the Real estate
3) They use Rental cars, taxis and buy cars ADDING to the auto industry
4) They shop for furniture, home item etc ADDING to the US businesses
5) They go for banking, credit cards, insurance, ADDING to financial industry
6) They go for Food, entertainment ADDING to US retail business
7) They shop thriftly and strive for best prices ADDING to the efficiency of US supply chain systems
9) Whatever money a H1 holder or any other visa holder makes 70-80% gets spent in US economy ADDING to the everything!
10) H1 or other visa holder seldom gets involved in any kind of crimes etc ADDING to the stability of society
11) People from diverse culture live ADDING to the diversity of this country
can somebody explain where is the SUBTRACTION?? JUST BECAUSE FROM VISA HOLDERS??
If somebody feels that visa holders take away jobs from Americans, those people are LESS EDUCATED, LESS COMPETITIVE AND FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES NOT MUCH OF USE. THEY ARE WHO SUBTRACT FROM US ECONOMY BY TAKING UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS AND BEING A OVERALL LIABILITY ON THE ECONOMY.
VISA HOLDERS ARE ASSETS TO THIS COUNTRY AND WHO OPPOSE THEM ARE LIABILITIES.
Take life seriously and stop whining. It’s good for everybody and more for whiners..because whining just doesn’t help anybody.
But in the meanwhile I will take it just as a “Basic Human Nature and Tendency”..
You forgot. When an H1-B enters the country, s/he is a degree holder of some sort. USofA has spent exactly $0 on her/his education. In return the country gets a ‘product’ ‘ready to work’ for the market. Count that as $100000+ to the economy.
People opposing immigration (does it have another term other than Xenphobe?) don’t oppose that. What they oppose is in a scenario where the number of jobs is constant, an immigrant taking up a position means one lost seat for the citizens.
It is again impossible to measure how much more jobs are created by the immigrants (if it does.)
You forget that most are American educated.
Good points Vikas and Lapog. I see nobody was able to counter what you guys summed up. 3 cheers to you.
Indians did not create the tech boom.
http://americantechboom.blogspot.com/
So disagreeing makes people a whiner.
What a great professor you must be!
Everyone is just supposed to accept your version of the “truth”.
Sounds like you know your argument is weak.
P.S. this post gets an F — because it does not prove the point it was trying to argue. There is no data here.
If we are so stupid how is it that we are a worldwide superpower and have the biggest economy in the world? And even if we are stupid why is it that most people in India still live in poverty?
So what do you suppose we do with all the Americans you put out of work by bringing your friends from your country over? Should we just let them starve to death like you do in your country?
It’s not Americans or Indians or whatever else…point is in today’s digital world distribution of people around the world is a norm..people have to step up to become a global citizen where their own abilities rules and not the simple fact of taking birth in any particular country..
Yes, this is uneasy but somehow this is what’s the life has become and going to be in this way..Today also people from US are working in other countries lke China, India etc because those people have Top notch Managerial skills which is in demand in other countries..
It’s getting more and more globalized world and physical boundaries are getting more and more meaningless..
WOW – you guys really have it all figured out, where the world is headed, what captialism is ‘all about’
just curious, why did you guys side with the Soviet Union in the cold war?
what was that all about
how did that play into your ‘great vision’?
We did ? I do remember reading about the non-aligned movement architected by a certain Nehru from those days. Hmm.
The internet does seem to bring out the most inflexible, rabid side of people everywhere. Its the same here in India, so see, we’re not *that* different.
Touche Sir!
just because it is basic human tendency, doesn’t make it right. we all have values that we uphold and i can’t remember the last time that i encouraged basic behaviour/reaction because it’s a human tendency. if something is wrong we should fix it. there’s a reason we aren’t living in caves, writing with symboles and being cannibles.
Why are only Indians being targeted? Why not Germans, Japanese, or Italians? Could it be that India is a culture of corruption? I don’t see 5 million Germans banging on America’s doors to get in. Nor 5 million Japanese. While only this assault on the west from 1 country – India? I’ll tell you why? They want what we have and they are unable to develop their own country. They’ve had 5000 years to do so, but America surpased them in only 250 years. America needs these people like it needs a hole in the head.
Sorry, Vivek, YOU’RE the xenophobe. You are an Indian writing in support of more Indians coming to America. You’re not writing about China and Mexico and France, you’re talking about India, let’s cut the bullshit and be honest. America is a melting pot, immigrants from India historically come to America, then espouse the wonders of India. Why don’t you write a piece about how wonderful America has been to you, rather than how stupid we all are for not letting more Indians in? It’s your tone that brings out the xenophobes, your ingratitude toward our great country that has given you such wonderful opportunity. Your visa piece hit a nerve because it’s received as “why don’t you stupid Americans let more of us smart Indians in?”
Actually it’s more like, “Why don’t you stupid Americans want people to start businesses in your country?”
The fact is that a new business creates jobs. Too bad people are so worried about their own job they forget that an immigrant starting a new business could be their next employer.
Why don’t we offer the same tax incentives to American citizens as we do to immigrants? I bet we would see a lot more start up’s there.
This is just another “angle” the Indians are trying to use to get out of their country and come here. The Indians are not more magical or special or any different than Americans. To make a blanket statement that allowing a foreigner to come to the country equals jobs is stupid. American or Indian its tough to start a business and make it work.
Yes, that’s why you have rules, to make sure its entrepreneurs who have what it takes. By letting them come to the US, we lose nothing, and the potential benefit of the company succeeding and employing more AMERICANS is a WIN WIN.
Indian population in the United States grew from almost 1,679,000 in 2000 to 2,570,000 in 2007: a growth rate of 53%, the highest for any Asian American community- US Census.
As well, they represent 30% of foreign born births in US and 30% of these families have 5 or more members versus 12.5% as compared to US born citizens.
So how is it that US is not supporting Indian Americans? How can you possible bash Americans for not helping?
Should have added
Between 1990 and 2000, the Indian population in the US grew 130% – 10 times the national average of 13%. Source: US Census Bureau.
Between 2000 and 2006 421,006 Indian immigrants were admitted to the United States.
From 2000 onwards the growth rate and the per cent rate of Indians amongst all the immigrants has increased by over 100 percent
Actually, that “used to be” true. Not as many Indians (we ‘ve traditionally been to wherever there’s good money to be made – one large world! – since time immemorial. And thats a good thing.) want to jump into the boat these days. A lot many are returning as well. Am no authority, but I’d guess thats true of China as well. So this ‘fear’ about lots of us coming and taking you jobs away is a little optimistic, right now.
OTOH, there’s lots happening in Bangalore. Feel free to come and do something interesting here. Life’s good
Chill.
Alex Kosorukoff = Russian
lol. but vivek is indian so therfore he only talks about and advocates indians coming to america, because of course america is so over populated by indians and not the spanish, and when those big bad techy indians with no papers, with no degrees come to america THEY STEAL AMERICAN JOBS, they steal our money, our highest positions, they steal the babies and our women. seriously. i mean vivek’s last post on the research about the backgrounds of the ceo’s of the biggest companies in america only focused on the indian influence.
“big bad techy indians with no papers, with no degrees come to america THEY STEAL AMERICAN JOBS, they steal our money, our highest positions, they steal the babies and our women”
1. Job Stealing, I am not sure how someone could steal somebody’s job. Is it a watch, an ipod or a wallet that somebody came and stole. Someone from the management (obviously somebody american) thought you as unfit and hired some indian guy. Now if that guy did not have any degree how did he come to US in the first place (US Govt are you listening?) and how did his american boss hire him?
I never thought american women could be stolen – impressed yeah I understand, but stolen 
2. Stealing money – You don’t work, somebody else does, they get the money. Period.
3. Stealing Highest positions – Again #2
4. Stealing babies & our women – That’s funny now
lol. i wasn’t being serious with my previous comment. for your number 2 point, it’s not the end. it’s never the end. the indians, the mexicans, the chinese/other asians, and the blacks are stealing our jobs. our jobs entitled to us by birth right, papers, and immigration status, but of course we aren’t immigrants. i mean i came to america decades ago and my forefathers and theirs built this country. notice how they don’t mention the europeans. because the europeans are white. europeans aren’t immigrants. there’s obviously no dark europeans. i mean all these complaints are so typical. there’s some good points being raised up about the abuse, maybe getting an L1 or an o1 or how a startup visa isn’t the right type of visa but the best points are 1) the system is obviously messed up 2)abuse will happen anyways unless the government does a good job of setting up the rules 3)america is a land of immigrants and it’s not against immigration, but for immigration that benefits the country the most.
i’m obviously not american.
Kevin, you must be those one of mediocre programmers who might have lost your job and then blaming it on immigration!! You would not have been enjoying our America if she had not let the brightest minds in, including greats like Einstein…
Instead of ranting here and letting your nerves take the better of you, go and get some real education, learn to understand what he wrote in a deeper sense instead of showing your shallowness by writing about your so called “nerves”. I am serious because the nature and argument of your comment clearly shows your ignorance…
Not at all, I welcome immigration, I’m pro-immigration, I just don’t like it when immigrants come to America and then tell us how stupid we are for not letting more immigrants in. An I take particular offense to the “cave” reference, coming from a guy whose country forces their kids into marriage and still, in 2009, has rampant child slavery. Yes, we need more immigrants, but we need to be diverse about it. And a little more gratitude to America would be appreciated. All should be welcome, but once here and successful, it’s offputting to come and wave the native flag, and not the American flag.
I am pro-immigration and TOTALLY Agree with Kevin.
The call for immigration reform is great – as with the right policies American can thrive BUT equally important Americans have the right to demand change of policies elsewhere – Human rights in China, child slavery in India – because the U.S. can only benefit from these changes as well.
I have to agree. The immigration gates should be locked to non-refugees from countries that continue to show poor records in human rights and other important sociopolitical spheres. Not just in America, but in my Canada, as well.
We should not hinder immigration and emigration with more forward-looking countries like those in Europe (and I’d certainly like less barriers to me moving south, or more Americans moving up here). But as the people who comprise the countries we live in, we must ensure that those who live with us will accept our values and not bring in repressive ones, themselves.
“We should not hinder immigration and emigration with more forward-looking countries like those in Europe (and I’d certainly like less barriers to me moving south, or more Americans moving up here).”
Why not list down your city and street as well. Obama could make it easier for those people specifically..
So coming from a country which has a poor record in an unrelated area disqualifies one from having an opinion on immigration? I suppose then you should shut up as well because the world has rarely seen the kind of torture some Americans inflicted on prisoners at Abu Ghraib.
I agree that Vivek’s tone is over the top. If you hadn’t noticed, that is TechCrunch’s style in general. But attacking an American professor for poverty and wrongs in the country he immigrated from is the very definition of Xenophobia.
“You Indians, shut up and go back to your holes till you learn how to be richer”
How is that different from asking people to go back to their caves. It’s worse!
You compared Abu Ghraib to India’s Human rights atrocities? Oh please!
India is a source, destination, and transit country for men, women, and children trafficked for the purposes of forced labor and commercial sexual exploitation; internal forced labor constitute India’s largest trafficking problem; men, women, and children are held in debt bondage and face forced labor working in brick kilns, rice mills, agriculture, and embroidery factories; women and girls are trafficked within the country for the purposes of commercial sexual exploitation and forced marriage; children are subjected to forced labor as factory workers, domestic servants, beggars, and agriculture workers, and have been used as armed combatants by some terrorist and insurgent groups;
you don’t sound like a bad guy at all kevin, but this part of your comment, “An I take particular offense to the “cave” reference, coming from a guy whose country forces their kids into marriage and still, in 2009, has rampant child slavery.” tells me all i need to know about you. you can’t listen to immigrants because they are biased and they obviously come from a place with such poor living conditions, crimes, etc…and that is oh so different from america because developed countries and developiong countries are not the same, have nothing similar and while america rises above, india or coutnries like india are septic deadpools. it’s all vivek’s fault for being indian and not telling india/indians to change their ways. i can’t believe you can seem so resonable and then shoot yourself in the foot like that.
Alex Kosorukoff is such a typical Indian name. And what is that “Russia” place that he keeps talking about? Must be some village in India!
I know that village – its called NY (Never York)
“Sorry, Vivek, YOU’RE the xenophobe. ”
keven, vivek is not a xenophobe, he’s a racist indian supremacist
and nothing you say will change him or his opinion
he’s not here to ‘contribute’, or ‘play fair’ or ‘compete’, he’s here to attack, invade and to take.
Could the tone of this article possible be more clear?
It’s economic war, and not a ‘cold’ one
Don;t debate him, expose him – link and quote this articel every time you see him quoted in any article (which is very often) from now on.
Please, as an American, I urge you to think before you say something. Your comments do nothing to add to your argument.
you lie. you can’t be american when you clearly are posting with an indian name. i mean tom is such an american name and therefore he is allowed to spit his claims and have no one challenge him.
Merry Christmas in advance, Tom. Try being nice bro.
The problem with the O-1 visa is not that you have to be a genius, it’s that it specifically excludes founders.
Vivek is exaggerating how difficult it is to get an O-1 visa. I’ve managed to receive it twice and I certainly don’t qualify as the genius with the perfect academic record (in fact I was expelled from one school). If you are an entrepreneur and you can’t persuade six people to write recommendation letters, a conference to let you speak and a journalist to write about you then maybe you’re not right for this anyway.
The major problem with the O-1 is that it is for people to join companies not found them. If you are the CEO of a company (American or not) and are either in a leadership role or you have a majority stake in the company, then the O-1 is inappropriate.
This is why we need a startup visa. Before my O-1 I was working on a startup in the US for two years without a work visa. Now I run two high-profile startups but in order to be able to make it in this country I had to start as a criminal. That should not be how we treat our entrepreneurial class.
You must be a true genius. I know 3 foreign students (PhD’s) from my school (NYU) who applied. They were really smart, had 7-10 references each and the support of the their professors. All 3 got turned down.
I agree that there’s exaggeration in the story. I got the O-1 visa 3 different times (2 times in a previous US round and one time on this round). I don’t have any degree and that’s why I applied for O-1 the first two times (for h1 you need a degree or 12 years of experience – you do not need a degree or ever to graduate high school for O-1 – it is based on professional achievement).
In my current round in the US I already had enough experience to qualify for h1 but I applied for and received the O-1 since the quotas for h-1 were filled.
And no, not a genius. I had to submit my work for review by independent professional parties in the US, publications, awards and references. It is a visa that requires you to have done a substantial amount of quality work, though.
My main complaint about the Visas are how they tie you to a company and is used by them as leverage against employees. It is very cumbersome to switch employers and enough to scare most of them away.
BTW, also worked in the Netherlands with a similar type of visa – there the bureaucracy is a real killer, much harder than the US – not harder to get, just very exhausting inefficiency.
Starting an article by attacking people that disagree with you is a good way to not be taken seriously.
Gj sir.
But still get people to comment
A very interesting read, my only comment is regarding your “Like nearly all foreigners who come here, he fell in love with America and wanted to share the American Dream” remark.
I’m from the UK and currently staying in the US and this is something that I have noticed is so prevalent in the US; the idea America is the greatest nation on Earth and the American dream is a good thing.
It’s very inspirational stuff, but from the perspective of somebody who has travelled around a bit, not really all that accurate. The uality of living in the US is quite terrible and the power struggle at the top of America worrying.
I suppose I also don’t share the money-making dreams that is the bedrock of American society, perhaps that’s why I regard it as simply anti-social greed.
This country makes me depressed sometimes.
Still, it does contain some of the kindest people I’ve met (including my girlfriend) and some of the most stunning locations on the planet, so I can’t be too hard.
Again, great read.
And how do you treat immigrants in the UK?
I will try to rephrase what @Etrigan said in a better way.
In the U.K., as an immigrant, you are always an outsider.
In the U.S., you are treated as an American by most people the day you step in. The idea that America is the greatest nation on earth may be grating to you, but it usually comes with “and you are now an American”. You don’t realize this but this makes sure that almost every immigrant is inspired to make America better, because they are now Americans.
You guys across the pond should try this inclusiveness.
“In the U.K., as an immigrant, you are always an outsider.”
Yeah right. You have no idea of anything related to the UK (beyond one or two headlines in the NYT), judging by your comment, but still want to comment for some reason.
Having spoken to immigrants in the US and UK.
I can concur 100% the UK (and from where I sit most of Western Europe) are extremely racists, and that one of the reason we suck as innovation.
The first person (I think) to say “WE” suck. Others been like “You” suck. Forget innovation, you seem to be a good guy and that matters more. So smile
this is so true. the us and uk/eu immigration systems aren’t that inddifferent but the cultures are and the intangibles are. everything you said is true. @etrigan, the uk doesn’t treat immigrants, legal or otherwise, any better than the us does, but when you’re in the us, legally or otherwise, you know that the culture there is built around immigration and it’s much much friendlier to immigrants. in the us anyone can make it. yeah it’s hard and you might be set up for failure, but like we’re talking about here: http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/12/06/nsfw-london-startups-bubbl/#comments
to fail and then try again is easier in the us than it is over the pond. it’s harder to be an immigrant in the uk for sure.
no matter how well written the rest of your article is,
i stopped reading after the 3rd paragraph. by starting off with those angry rants, you’ve lowered yourself to the level that you perceive your opponents to be at….discrediting your entire argument.
The Glenn Beck crowd “wants its country back” but the country has evolved into something new which is not only White and European. Obviously, if your name was “Steve” and not Vivek, you would not have gotten these responses, as if a “Steve” is more American than a “Vivek”.
Many American rarely travel around the world (besides Cancun and Canada). During the old days of the Peace Corps, Americans went to Africa, Asia and understood the world better – now many are simply looking at disbelief at the growth in emerging markets and are angry. If they would travel more, they would not be so angry.
Having traveled the world a bit and developed business in W Africa getting a direct view of other country’s problems including their views on how society should be, I don’t blame people for wanting to get out of have something better.
However, why does America have to be the World Evangelist and the end point for these country’s population?
NO TO STARTUP VISA
I am an immigrant, I love the US and I believe that we need to do more to allow more immigrants into the US. BUT, I disagree with the startup visa – it’s the wrong solution to the problem. First of all, it does not address an existing problem: there aren’t a lot of entrepreneurs in other parts of the world that want to come here to start companies as soon as they land in the US – that is an extremely unlikely scenario. It is more likely that someone will want to come to the US, learn the system and then possibly start a company. Starting a company is not a trivial matter especially if you are from another country. If this person is an “idea person” (e.g., a software developer) we need to make it easier for him/her to move to the US. For that we need to change the immigration laws (see next paragraph).
The more likely scenario that occurs very frequently is that a smart, motivated person would either like to come to the US to work here OR a smart, motivated person is already in the US perhaps in an academic environment (e.g., Ph D program) or working for someone else (and on an H-1 visa or similar work visa). The US needs to change the immigration laws to accommodate all 3 of these types of people – for example, make it easy for qualified foreigners to get work visas, make the H-1 visa portable (i.e., not tied to an employer) etc.
The startup-visa idea is ridiculous. It’ll be a cause of another unneeded bureaucracy and not address the actual problem.
According to Vivek you are a xenophobe and need to return to your cave, although you sound like someone who is just trying to use reason to defend a point of view.
U sound fucking retarted. Vivek clearly cares about solving the problem, and I’m sure he’s open to ALL suggestions.
Calm Down buddy. Your point would be taken similarly if you just leave out that 4 letter word (or the 7 letter word in your case).
I’m sorry, but after spending 30 minutes reading every comment, I lost my cool yesterday. I apologize.
A startup visa can require a graduate degree from the U.S., just like the special “Masters quota” in the H1B visa does.
Entrepreneurship does not require a graduate level education. Experience, vision and perseverance are probably more important traits. We need to stop using educational credentials as a absolute quality measure.
lol. the most likely and probably the most accurate is that a smart or whatever you attributed immigrant, as well as a dumb immigrant (whatever the standards are) are in the us without papers, working a menial job and getting paid shit money.
yeah Shit money
yeah it’s called the future of the american dollar.
India and Indian’s are crazy about going to America. I had the same craze when I was younger.
Yes some (“not all”) Indians have made it big in this country and that is made an example for the rest to follow.
But the fact is a good businessman or entrepreneur can strike gold anywhere.
This is the Internet economy baby. There are no borders. I can sell stuff from the comforts of my home in Mumbai to people living in the Swiss Alps or the man on the street in NY.
I do not get what is this issue of Startup Visa and why haggle for be in the US of A to start a venture.
Though the ecosystem in America for Entrepreneurs is far ahead than in India or Russia or Brazil, it is mostly there for who are well settled in the country not for someone who hops on a plane and lands in Silicon Valley.
Yes, Indian companies do create jobs but are there are any hard statistics to prove that a large number of local Americans are hired instead of Indians on short employment or business visas.
In Mumbai, we are facing the same issue, where people from outside come in thousands everyday swamping the resources and competing with those who are already living there. Many a times this leads to violence and xenophobia.
The point I am trying to make is do not think local, think global and you can be anywhere and still do business.
“In Mumbai, we are facing the same issue, where people from outside come in thousands everyday swamping the resources and competing with those who are already living there.”
“People from outside”?
You do realize that Mumbai is a city, not an independent country right?
Yes Mumbai is a city and everyone is welcome to come and work there. But the fact remains that any city, town or even a country has limited resources and unless people who come there contribute towards its growth there will be resistance to “outsiders”.
that’s what i commented on..in Mumbai other Indian are considered outsiders..it’s way too ridiculous..been at IIT powai, have worked there forbsometimes and will never ever go back to work in that city again..
Have you come across signs such as “outside vehicles not allowed” or “no salesman please” or “Do not Disturb”
Well, every Mumbaikar is an Indian and ever Indian can aspire to be a Mumbaikar. I would be happy if more people come to Mumbai.
A direct consequence of this would be increase in property prices and I am sure existing Mumbaikars who own property will stand to benefit.
But then they would have to also suffer water and power cuts and life would become miserable even though you have all the money in the world.
It is not about outsider or insider, it is about planned city development.
it’s not only india. african’s too. lots of other asian countries aside from india and some south american countries. and don’t forget canada. canada is the 51’st state.
Hi I think that xenophobes are all over the world. They’re usually limited people -limited in opportunities, income, education, and thoughts.
The good thing is that educated immigrants don’t need to deal with that sort of people -nor do business with them.
The real business opportunities aren’t around that sort of people, but with educated people. So just let them flip your burgers, pump your gas, clean up your office, etc. Those are usually the skills they got.
Just my opinion -thank you.
Bruno.
I have a feeling there are a lot of Vivek’s pumping gas in this country
What’s your fucking point? Or are you just making random racist statements because you know you can’t put together a fucking rational sounding argument.
Good for you.
Are the countries in the European Union limited in thoughts, education, abilities when they first make sure a citizen of their country, then the EU has first priority for an open position over a foreigner?
Yet again, Wadhwa makes liberal use of the McCarthian technique of labeling his critics, instead of using sound logic.
But what could we expect of corporate shill arguing complete non-sense? The US is suffering it’s highest unemployment since the great depress, and Wadhwa wants to replace even more US workers with cheap offshore indentured servants.
Cheap Indentured SERVANTS? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME. WE ARE NOT IN THE FUCKING OLD DIRTY SOUTH HERE.
Why the fuck dont you mind your language?
Umm I could say the same to you
. Sorry, I just lost my cool after reading all the comments…
“Sorry, I just lost my cool after reading all the comments…”
Indians always do
They always start out as the officious Dr Jekyll, offering they’re unsolicited ‘help’
But if you stand up to them for any length of time, out comes Mr Hyde, and his real intentions and attitudes
You see it everywhere in this article, starting at the title
I would like to thank you, and all Indians on this article’s comments, for showing all who care to see, what you really are.
this tom guy is my favourite person. i love how he can generically say so nonchalantly “indians always do” like losing one’s cool is only attributed to indians. wow. sometimes the people posting on this website make me realize that i am not the dumbest person alive. i’ll just hazard a guess and say the person posting as tom isn’t really tom.
Sachit, good that you admit it. And try, if you could, not to do it again.
Tommy boy, you are a good person and I am a person who makes sarcastic statements
yeah pj you don’t need to state the obvious. i know it’s hard to figure out web sarcasm but it exists.
I think many of the opponents are worried the startup visa would be abused, as the H1b is. The H1b is designed to only fill a void in which there is no local workers available. Obviously, this is not the main use of the non-immigrant H1b visa. I am not against a startup visa, but some of the ‘idiots’ you speak of have a right to be angry about the H1b program and they pretty much link everything you write with some of your previous articles in which you really do go out of your way to insult the unemployed whom are struggling to make ends meet. The majority of Americans do not support massive outsourcing and uncontrolled immigration.
okay but it’s funny that the loopholes in the h1b program isn’t the fault of the immigrants. it’s the administrations fault for not writing a better/fullproof program requirements and for not checking the program and having timely updates to the program or a system of checks as well as risks built into the program. it’s not an anomaly that there is such huge circumvention of the rules.
Now you are saying it better.